BearFan PHX

all this is true. He does have some idea what hes gonna do. Of course our filters are different on that decision. I think keeping Fields is a mistake, so if thats where he's leaning, or already decided, and he makes that choice, Im gonna think its partially because he isnt maintaining professional emotional distance. I could be wrong about either of those things or both of course. But if we get to next year, and I was right, and Justin is the same as he was this past year, that's gonna really suck and the repercussions to the plan we bought with that awful 2022 season will be devastating, and we will be back to mediocrity for many years. We wont have a #1 pick, and we will oscillate as we have for decades between 6-11 seasons followed by 9-8 seasons as we get harder and easier schedules each year. We've been caught in that cycle for many many years. Decades. Surely you're sick of it too! We cant keep thinking like McCaskeys, buying the same narrative we've been sold forever. This has to be about winning Superbowls and not selling tickets and feeding the Chicago Sports Media machine. I know in New England they had a lot of years where they didnt say "Keep or trade Brady?!" The writers will find other things to write about if we get a great QB. I'm not sold on Williams. I have a lot more investigating to do, including seeing a bunch of videos that havent even been made yet! But I think keeping Fields will be a mistake, and if Poles does that, I'm gonna think that the reason he made the mistake was this possible problem I wonder about. And if he drafts a QB, he needs to get the right one. And that is a really complicated problem this year in particular with so many good names. The other way to see that is that there may be more than one great QB here for the taking, and that increases our odds of getting one, IF we take one early. I think we have to. I hope Poles thinks so too.

yeah I truly hope so! I dont think he is consciously thinking "Im gonna make a bad decision because i love Fields" youre 100% right about that. I'm more saying that his vision is possibly clouded because he is such a fan. And I have also repeatedly praised pretty much every move hes made except for Eberflus. And Ive said that he is excellent at playing the draft, making trades and acquiring talent. My concern is simply whether he will be able to fire, cut or trade "his guys" when thats the right move to make. I have NO doubt every move he makes he thinks is the best for the Bears, we agree on that for sure. I'm just saying, if you're the judge of a murder case, and youre gonna have to decide whether a guy goes free or gets the death penalty, it's weird to be hugging him and paling around with him a couple months before you lower the boom? But all that really matters is that he gets the decisions right. I think he got Eberflus wrong, and if he keeps Fields I will think he got that one wrong too, and then Im gonna be suspicious of him. Im sure we disagree on our predictions of how that would work out, but I'll bet you agree that if he keeps Fields, and we dont win more than 8 games next year, and the defense is balling out and Fields' performance is similar to this years with no growth that THEN Poles might even get fired. So the safest route would be to draft a rookie QB and that gives poles a few years of leeway to see how that guy develops. but Im sure we also agree that we hope Poles has the guts to make the right decision for the Bears, rather than what's safest for him?

I'm gonna add this too. I am NOT sure that Poles is too cozy with the players. ALL I've said is that I have an eye on it and i am concerned about it. If he keeps Fields, I'm gonna think it more. I also predict (again just my opinion!) that keeping Fields is a mistake and we will all see the truth of that by this time next year if it happens. These are my opinions! If that doesnt meet some kind of purity test, maybe it's time to examine who exactly has been radicalized here and who is intolerant of who's opinion. But the post above was just a chuckle, that Stingers argument was a poor one, because it didnt actually prove his point, but it did prove mine (if what Stinger said is true). And if instead it's true as you say, that Poles has an open mind, and isnt too chummy with the team, then Stinger's argument was at odds with that idea. So I thought that was funny. Don't be so sure when the villagers get the torches to kill the monster that they are morally right. A lot of times it's the self righteous crowd thats wrong, and the monster was just a scientist saying the earth wasnt flat or something that just happened to be at odds with the prevailing narrative that the villagers were so indoctrinated with.

that doesnt make sense. It's not just who believes what about Fields, Pix. of course that's opinion, but the thing Stinger just said would have to NOT be true for me to be wrong? If Poles is as you think, not affected by his loyalty, and still capable of making tough decisions, then he cant know during the regular season what hes going to do about Fields. He would still have an open mind. The good argument against my side would be "Poles loves Fields on a personal level, but it ISNT affecting his decisions" And if that were true, then the hug WOULDNT be "all you need to know about the future of the Bears" would it? There would be more to know, because he'd still be evaluating options. So the hug doesnt "prove" my point at all, but if he is thinking what Stinger said, THEN it does. You cant just take everything and turn it backwards and call it symmetrical.

It's funny Stinger, you're actually proving my point. If Poles hugging Fields means that he is behind him no matter what, the "future" - before evaluating all his options, before the combine, before all the interviews, then he absolutely is compromised and allowing his emotions to make decisions, and then I'm right about my concerns. The smart argument would be "he loves Fields and supports his guys, but when he makes hard decisions he doesnt let that into it" But... yeah.

No doubt Poles has a long game, and he's setting himself up for a long run strategically, which is very smart, but we will see if his decisions with Eberflus and Fields will allow that to come to fruition? Honestly, if it wasn't for the Eberflus decision, Id be really unable to criticize him at all. He's doing a lot right. But he still has the defining decision of his career ahead of him.

he's probably being groomed to take over for Waldron if/when he gets a head coaching gig. Smart to have an heir apparent in the pipeline.

right, and they have a QB in place.

Ha! I have thought that many times here! Whenever anyone thinks that though, do we always imagine ourselves to be Sharpe, and the other guy to be Bayless? lol

amen

Im gonna play Devil's advocate about my own point. Maybe he's saying those are the traits of a good QB, and he's the coach to make Fields do that. It's hard to read the tea leaves on this one! But if he's talking about a built in ability, then he's not talking about Caleb Williams either! Also Bagent's release is quicker than a virgin at the Playboy Mansion LOL but he did throw too many interceptions - like a virgin who needs to make sure the routes are actually open and theres no defender in position to pick him off? So here's a question: which is easier to teach; to speed up a QB's reading of the defense so he makes reads faster, or to slow a QB's reads down so he makes better reads?

yeah there is no denying his talent. That's why Im hoping someone else emerges with similar amazing talent without the same risk. Hes hard to walk away from, but id love to if we could find another candidate equally as intriguing. There are a lot of good QBs available this year, but predicting which one(s) are gonna be elite aint easy.

Delivery quickness. It sure doesn't/

I hope there is a non-Williams generational option. I worry about Caleb a lot. I would love to have another option!

yeah, youre 100% right - we need a GOOD offensive minded HC lol I would look seriously at a guy like Ben Johnson, but not the probable Superbowl winning OC (Nagy) lol

I dunno how he is at leading men (no reason to think anything negative about that, just have no info) but based on his schemes and playcalling, Id love to see him here running our offense. I also prefer an offensive minded head coach, since if you have success youre always losing the coordinators. To my mind, the job of offensive coordinator is much much MUCH more complex than defensive coordinators, and good OCs are rare. So if we had a defacto OC as HC, or at least a HC who directed the offensive gameplan during the week that would be preferable to a defensive minded HC.

I agree with you on the second statement, but I dont think MHJr will drop below about pick #3 or #4 If we have our eye on a QB not named Williams, Daniles or Maye, then maybe we trade down to #3 for something short of a haul, grab MHJr, and then that other QB at #9? But all of that has to be contingent (in my opinion) on having a clear plan for a QB you've identified as the best one in the draft. That is job #1 this year to me.

great stuff adam and Grizz, I love all these data points. It's really good to get some points of view that are contrary to the monolithic media narratives. I wont agree with all of them, but hearing the same echo chamber BS over and over is just brainwashing people. Its good to have alternative viewpoints, even if I (we?) end up disagreeing with them, it helps to check our own math. But hearing a sportswriter regurgitate the same crap that he read somewhere else, that started before this season even started is futile. Some examples of narratives that were born in summer of 2023, that still persist as if we havent had a season since then: Justin just needs one more year with some better players around him Caleb Williams is the clear cut cant miss generational talent in this draft Harbaugh is a volatile coach who doesnt belong in the NFL with highly paid players Gervon Dexter is a NT and cant play 3T Kalil Herbert is the best RB on the Bears Cole Kmet is a bust etc.

Stats can definitely be misleading. But there are RAW stats like completion percentage, or yards per attempt and those are factual. They dont always tell the whole story, but they are objective. Then there are PFF stats which are subjective. They include a persons opinion about a play, and they also use formulae to take different subjective stats and wash them through some algorithm to produce an even less reliable "stat" in that you need to trust both the opinions going into the algorithm, plus the algorithm itself. PFF is nonsense, real stats are objective, but dont tell the whole story, and watching tape shows you everything in context.

lol @ $10M perf too LOL

yup and great title to this thread. I wonder when people are going to be sick and tired of Bears mediocrity.

we could probably pay Trubisky half that, whats the point? I want a GOOD QB.

I guess my point from several posts back was about the difference between actually dominant teams that are deep in the playoffs every year, and the kind of team that gets a little lucky and gets to the championship game or the super bowl, but isnt seen from again. For example, our 2006 Bears went to the Superbowl, and the 2007 Bears were 7-9. So were the 2006 Bears really evidence that we were a really good team? When we got double doinked out of going deeper in the playoffs with Nagy and Trubisky, was that really evidence that we had arrived? That those guys would be a positive force for winning games in the future? I dont want to be one of those teams that squeaks into the playoffs and we hope "if we get a fumble you never know! we could run the table if the ball bounces our way a few times" - I want that 1985 feeling - we are the baddest motherf*ckers, and favorites to win the superbowl. Now I know you gotta build that. But you gotta believe the people youre building from 7-10 to 10-7 with have that in them, or youll end up... like the Lions. We'll see what they do next year. Maybe Campbell will make me eat crow. Im not saying he wont, but I dont see it as obvious yet. And the parallels to the current coach and QB are obviously heavily implied LOL

I hear ya. And i am also a huge fan of the big alpha dog who demands excellence. I think that's Campbells strength. But i think he makes, or to your point, has made, some losing decisions as a strategist. The headline at the Rich Eisen show today is "Take the points!" and the Pat McAfee show is "Should Dan Campbell be blamed for losing to the 49ers after leading 24-7 at half?" Im not saying thats correct, there are obviously counter arguments too - but the question is being widely asked today, so it's hard to say Campbell is a top 5 coach, even as his team finished 3rd or 4th this year. Im not here to crap on Dan Campbell at all, I like his personality a lot, and what the Lions did this year was great. But we beat them, and if Campbell was Andy Reid, we wouldnt have? The OC for the Lions is really good too, so a lot of credit goes to him too. I want to find a head coach who has that tough ass attitude. I want a strategist too, and someone with a pedigree of winning in college or the pros. All three. Maybe someone who just came off winning a national championship or something, but those guys are never available (cough)

I like Foreman too, but agree with the sentiment otherwise.