BearFan PHX

Dav, thank you. I know Warren is involved, but I don't know if he is the final decision maker. I had heard that Warren didnt want to keep Flus and Poles did, so you can take that with a grain of salt too. Who knows? As long as they make the right decisions, Im OK with it, although it's strange for the GM not to have final say, since it's his job on the line if he gets it wrong - but on the other hand, when you want to trade future draft picks etc you always need sign off from the owners or in this case Warren. I doubt Warren would stick his fingers into most things, other than to simply be a rubber stamp to approve - but huge decisions like this one, he is probably more involved with? I think of the (silly) movie draft day and how much pressure the owner had about the pick. It's fiction of course, but they interviewed a lot of NFL people to try to make it somewhat realistic about what kinds of pressure the GM feels even if the decision is theirs in the end?

I agree with most of this, and generically, youre correct. The thing is, you have a talent like Williams available to us, and you just cant pass a player like this up. If he was just another decent prospect with questions etc then sure, what you say makes all the sense in the world. But a QB like Williams doesnt come around often, and when they do, they are not likely to be available to us. This is the moment. ANd I trust Poles like you do to find a way to put people around him too. Because youre right, that's also very important.

I dont get why you guys wont watch the tape. And if you wont look for yourself why youre so mad that I dont agree with what someone else that you dont even know wrote. If you watch youll see this isnt arrogance, its just thast the narrative that Williams holds the ball too long is a lie. You dont need to take my word for it, just look for yourself.

I was using it as proof that I am not the only one that thinks that. I use tape as proof that Caleb isnt what they say he is. Watch the tape and then youll know too.

That's why youre ignorant and have no idea what youre talking about. Watch some film. Ill put a link below 20 minutes with Kurt Warner. You trust him. Its not highlights or lowlights, its a full game in context, against a quality opponent - so you can see how he comes back from a bad throw etc. Use your eyes and tell me you dont see Caleb playing on time and in structure. And this game wasnt cherry picked - Id never seen it before the other day when I searched on youtube for something I hadnt seen so I could "wager" with Grizz about it without manipulating the outcome. He didnt watch it either. You can even hear Warner saying that is isnt one of his highlight games. If you dont watch all 22 game tape, then youre just hypnotized by someone elses narrative. Use your own eyes and then tell us fairly what you see. I challenge you. 20 minutes. Just tell us what you see. Does he hold the ball too long? Does he make multiple reads? Does he manipulate the pocket? How is his release? Are WRs hit in time and with location to get YAC? Does he throw with anticipation? How about velocity? Not every play is great in this. But watch it, and then tell us if what that stupid sportswriter wrote is true, or whether they lied to you for clickbait and got you all upset defending a lie all this time.

you saw some edited crap. watch full games, otherwise you're just talking crap. I have seen Caleb throw the ball in tempo and structure dozens and dozens of times. If youre saying he cant do that, then you are just wrong. If you dont know, you dont know. I cant keep explaining it to you guys. If you want to live in fantasy world, then fine. I dont care. But just remember when Caleb comes to Chicago and lights is up you were against him. Pathetic.

I am predicting Williams' success based on skills I see him showing off on film. Justin's biggest problems in the NFL are the same things he showed on his college film. Caleb is a #1 pick, the 1st QB taken, Justin was a #11 pick, the 4th QB taken. Also, Justin has played in the NFL for 3 years now, and we can see who he is. How do I know that no one has offered a first rounder for him? Because we didnt trade him. How do I know we want to trade him? Because Poles said he was trying to get it all done quick to "be fair to Justin" that isnt language youd use for your franchise QB. Now, I am done hearing about how I am so sure of myself. I am sure of THIS. I am not always sure. This isnt about my character its about how incredibly dumb not drafting Williams would be. It's not even close. Watch the film. Until you do you dont know what youre talking about, youre just repeating things you read that were written to get clicks. if you watch the film, then you will know. If you watch and still disagree, then we can talk. It's like youre telling me the earth is flat. People think that. Do they have a right to? Yes they do. But it isnt rude of me to call it delusional. it is freaking ridiculous Lemme find you another clip of a national NFL reporter showing you exactly how inane this argument is. Look at her face, she is literally stunned they are even asking the question straight up. Then calls it "emotional" Im sorry that the fact that Justin isnt very good and that we are about to draft a major prospect is hurting everyones feelings, but it has nothing to do with me, so I think its time for people to deal with their emotions in a way other than taking it out on me. I was early to say Fields wasnt good. And I was right. You can all (Justin lovers) be as nasty as you like, while simultaneously saying Im the nasty one, but it's cultish. Play from 24:30

where did you see this?

in terms of his attitude yes. I wasnt saying he was already a superstar, I was saying he has epic swagger, and his not being humble could be a good thing as a leader and a winner. And yes, it really does feel cultish. And not just to me, but lots of pundits, reporters and NFL people. Fields is mediocre at best, and there is just so much emotion here, and we aren't even talking about Fields, we're talking about a different kid entirely, and STILL it's about Fields. You guys can pick at me all you want, but it isn't about me at all. Fields is not good. No one in the NFL is offering a first rounder for him. Williams is good. He is worth the first overall pick and a likely huge haul to get him. That's just the truth. You can think whatever you want, but being so cocky about something that makes no sense is "cultish"

Oh and St. Justin didn't sign until June 11th, and his deal included no offset language. But if Williams wants the same, he's a bad guy. lol

Williams is not dumb - he wants to bond with his team and win, and wont hold out over anything that literally cannot be changed. If Caleb is selfish, he wants to win games and make a fortune in ads. The only two issues possible are % of guaranteed money, which for the last four #1 picks was 100% and will be for Caleb too, so that's off the table. All that would be left is offset language that says that if the Bears cut him or trade him, that any money the new team pays him would also count as a deduction on what the Bears owe - so he wouldnt be double paid. SInce that would require us to cut him or trade him, it's extremely unlikely to happen. And since the rookie deal is so cheap, I dont think that would be terribly important to us either. So we could unilaterally take the only two possible reasons to hold out off the table with very little risk to us. So if Caleb holds out, it's Poles holding out too. I just dont see it. I dont see any of this anti Caleb stuff - I think it's just left over sour apples about Fields. We've got a superhero coming in and this is the way we act. LOL Caleb, they dont deserve you. Walter Payton, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady - all incredibly confident alpha types who were overly competitive. GOOD. We need that. I dont want a good little school boy. I want a winner, and if that means he has to drag the team and coaches around him into winning, then good we finally have that guy. I wanted that guy to be head coach, but if its the starting QB Im not mad at it at ALL.

and i dont think it's like Poles doesnt want Caleb but has to - I think hes thrilled that someone like this is available to us.

Caleb will get special treatment for as long as he deserves it.

not drafting him would be such a mistake it would get everyone fired. And I dont think Poles would skip getting a guy like that anyway.

Amazing! Good luck to him!

This is how I see it too. And your last sentence is gold.

sounds right to me too

out of the gate, for sure. Poles has shown an ability to find later round defensive backs though - I think this is more a matter of not having as many picks as we might like, and needing stop gap measures for a couple years to fill a hole? He might also be doing his due diligence on this guy in case Byard doesnt get signed quickly due to age, and is available on a cheaper one year type deal later. Who knows. The next few weeks are sure to be interesting.

Bears meeting with Safety Kevin Byard today - a perennial all pro who played most of his career in Tennessee. He's 30 years old, so probably a 2 year deal to fill a hole and then draft a replacement next year if we make an offer at all. Expected to command $7.2M a year.

I think if Poles gets a decent offer in Fields he will trade him before Caleb's medicals are in. If he doesnt get that offer we will never know who was right, but i think Poles has enough data to make a decision now rather than lets a decent offer go stale and possible lose it?

ah I see what youre saying. Youre saying if someone blows him away with a trade down from #1 he'd keep Justin. I think if he trades down it will be only to #2 or #3 and he'll draft a rookie QB anyway. But having watched film, i think Williams is the clear best one in the draft. I watched game tape on Maye too, and his accuracy is all over the place, One minute he's throwing a beautiful ball and the next hes way off. He's also young, and so he may be able to correct those things in time too. I just see Caleb as the total package, and someone we can actually contend for superbowls (more than one!) with.

I think the "blow him away" comment was about pick #1 not Justin?

I dont think Caleb would be scared of Fields' competition, I think it's a matter of establishing leadership and respect. You can imagine the locker room might not be so happy about watching Caleb take it from Fields after all weve read about the love for Fields in the locker room - and if this board, or all of Chicago sports talk, is any indication, it's a contentious emotional issue? And I would imagine Fields would HATE it. I wouldnt be at all surprised if we sign a vet QB to give Caleb a month or two to develop, and I see the logic of keeping Fields since he's under contract, but I dont think hes the guy for that role, so I think he will get traded.

ok good, we're back to that I guess.

that sounds like a reasonable price, but if no one wants to pay that for Justin, im not sure you can blame Poles for that?