BearFan PHX

Quincy Jones! Great piece of music.

I guess it depends on how you measure it. I agree that there are times he does all those things, so from that point of view you can call it a concern. But I tend to evaluate these guys by looking to see what they CAN do. So while he sometimes holes the ball too long, he also makes quick reads and throws with anticipation, so you know he CAN do it. With Justin, he holds the ball because he doesnt see it until it's too late, with Williams, it seems to be because he is waiting for better longer home run options, not because he doesnt see it. There are lots of plays where he goes through his reads quickly and gets the ball out in rhythm too. I think Williams was looking for home runs because his defense was so bad and he felt pressure to score a lot of points. So while I agree that he does sometimes do the things youre saying, I also see plenty of evidence that he is capable of running the offense in tempo too, so I dont worry whether he has that skill or not. He wont need to develop that skill for the pros, hell just need to be more disciplined which is completely coachable?

Good post! A lot of information in there, thank you. Yeah I agree all that's left to fight over is offset language and lump sum payments of guaranteed money. Since the last 4 #1 picks all got it as a lump sum, if the Bears didnt give that to Williams, I'd pretty much blame them and not Williams for that, so that leaves offset language. I cant imagine that's going to be a real sticking point. And while the Bears may have a point in that one, the ball is in their court too, so theyd be a 50/50 participant in any trouble over that issue too. In other words, the Bears can give on both of those points without damaging themselves too much or at all. So they can control and avoid those scenarios? Also as you said, i doubt all those guys were holdouts, they just werent signed quickly. But i dont know how many of them were I totally admit. Now if you wanna talk about franchise tagging in year 6, then I totally think Williams could be difficult about that, as far away as that is for now. One thing I always liked about Brady was that he routinely took about $10M less per year than he was worth, and that gave his team money to keep weapons around him. If Williams really does want greatness, he might think like that too in the future. And when you win a lot of superbowls, you recoup that $10M in endorsements anyway. But if Poles drafts Williams, Im not worried at all that he will hold out. I do think his dad will keep saying stupid stuff, but i dont think it will really matter?

I'm pretty sure the slotted contract system started in 2011, and Enis was drafted before that? The only rookie holdout I can recall since then was over contract clauses related to off the field bad behavior affecting the $. I think that issue has now been settled one way or the other and standardized. I cant recall a rookie holdout since 2011 when the rookie slotted deals started. i think the rules are such that the Bears have literally no choice in what to pay Williams, they cant change it, so I'm not sure why he'd hold out? I cant say whether Williams wants to play in Chicago, but if he doesnt, Poles has to know that. And since it's not being said publicly, it's extremely unlikely I think that he doesnt want to go to Chicago, and if hes saying that privately then its even more unlikely that we draft him anyway and he holds out? There are lots of things to worry about with any high pick, but i dont thinka holdout is really one of them? Caleb's dad seems like an idiot. Kind of a Venus and Serena Williams' dad thing. he will cause trouble again Im sure, but i dont think it will affect Caleb and the Bears, but just be silliness in the press. Pat Mahomes is having some sort of trouble in the press with having family members try to extort him for money or something, and we'd still take him all day

Someone needs to actually measure the guy

I agree entirely. Drafting a QB in late rounds is not gonna fill a hole at starting QB without some incredible luck of the sort that you cant possibly count on.

In both of those cases, Manning and Elway were overt about not wanting to be drafted by that team, and Caleb isnt saying that in interviews, and is showing a lot of love toward Chicago pizza etc - its dumb stuff, but not the actions of someone who doesnt want to be drafted by the Bears. BUT there is a scenario I can imagine where Caleb doesn't want to be hated the way you dislike Elway, and still wants to do avoid Chicago quietly behind the scenes. Im not saying this is happening, but just to play out the scenario... If Caleb doesnt want to be a Bear, and doesnt want that to be known publicly, then someone tells Poles through intermediaries that this is the case. Poles then takes a different QB or trades down, saying he preferred Maye or Daniels anyway, possibly gets a huge haul of picks, and no one is the wiser. I imagine that if Poles hears this from Caleb he wouldnt want to go public with it either, because it makes it look like he cant land the guy he wants. So it would all be secret. But it still wouldnt end with us drafting Caleb and then Caleb holding out. It would end with taking a different player #1 or trading out of #1, and we'd never find out the truth of why it happened. Rookie deals are set in stone too, so theres no contract reason for Caleb to hold out either. So I think if we draft him, he will play for us.

No concerns on your list of skills. He shows that all plenty in the film. And a lot of people don't know this but John Madden was a woman with three testicles LOL Seriously though, Im assuming his medicals are fine. The Bears will give him a medical eval, just not today. Did they measure his height at the combine?

well now we know that we didnt pursue him and get rebuffed. Neat stuff, dude.

Youre right, and every QB needs to make a huge incremental step up into the NFL. Predicting how that will go is why this is so hard to do. No one is ready for the NFL coming out of college. The first day of training camp is the first time they've seen NFL defenses and their speed, and how small the new passing windows are. As far as whether Williams had those skills you listed in college, the proof is already in hours of tape. The Bears and everyone else already know he can do all those things at the college level. He is as impressive a prospect as there is. What's left is character. Not just if they are troubled, but how competitive they are and how they will handle the transition and stress in the NFL. For example, one worry might be - since Caleb was so good in college, how does his ego react to not being up to NFL quality initially. Does his ego tell him he is and shut down, or does his competitive fire burn hotter to study and get better. I think it strongly looks like the latter, which is great, but this is where the uncertainty still lies, his on the field skill is already off the charts on the tape.

the Dad thing is old, but the not throwing is new. Then again, it's not uncommon for top rated Qbs to only throw at their pro days, there's nothing to gain, and some possibility to lose. Maye and Daniels aren't throwing this year either. Last year Bryce Young didn't throw at the combine - I think it's common for top rated guys not to.

right - the Eagles may have wanted Carter and helped stoke the character issue fire, but that doesnt mean that Poles got duped either. I agree he made the right decision.

if Caleb is a weirdo in some way, that either works for or against him. The obvious against is that he would play a victim role if negativity comes along, and become more activist than player. But that doesnt seem like his personality at all. Look at the other side - let's say hypothetically (NOT saying this is true at ALL!) that Caleb is a really weird fetish guy. There is some chance that he wants to prove to the world that the greatest QB who ever lives ALSO happened to like to dress up like a nurse and wrestle in jello. You could imagine that could motivate him even more in a Jackie Robinson kind of way. I couldn't stand Colin Kaepernick, but I LOVE Dennis Rodman. Now I think the nails thing is just because his mom is a nail tech, and doesn't even mean he is a weirdo at all. I think it's a giant nothingburger, but if my investigators told me there was more to it, it wouldn't be a positive or a negative inherently, it would just go back to the original most important question you ask any QB - what is your character, how competitive are you, are you a leader, is winning so important to you that it's almost unhealthy? If you get the right answer to those questions, it doesnt matter what the THING is, even if there is no thing at all, you still need the right answer to those questions. They and talent are literally all that matter for any QB.

some of these "Red Flags" are recycled things from months ago. Remember that we are in pre draft smokescreen land. Any negative piece on Caleb has the effect of getting lots of clicks AND you can imagine there are some other teams wanting to muddy the waters on Caleb hoping to maybe shake him free from Chicago. That may sound paranoid, but understand these teams hire private investigators and teams of researchers to find out everything about all of these kids. If you connect your franchise to a top QB prospect, and he grows into his potential, you are talking about eventually giving a guy like over a quarter of a billion dollars. They look under every rock, and they use disinformation and counterintelligence operations like any business worth billions of dollars would on their primary investment and product. Somewhere there are PR agents working for the Commanders and other teams, trying to prime the pump for reporters, feeding them scraps of negative information, hoping to goad that reporter into doing something that will make that reporter money by writing negative pieces on Caleb. It's not that hard of a sell.

you may well be right. he looks good from every angle. THe more I hear about and from him, the more convicned I am that he's the right move. But I cant help feeling some nagging feeling that somethings wrong, but I dont know where it's coming from. I have NOTHING to base it on. I dont care about the nails, in fact if he is different in some way, that could work as a chip on his shoulder and extra motivation if that's his character. I think the crying in his moms arms is a positive. Everything I see on tape looks incredible. The more i watch the more I think the common narratives about him are wrong. He plays in structure all the time. He makes fast decisive reads when they are there. His throwing motion is insanely fast and compact, like Marino. On the field, he is a rare specimen. His dad is being weird, but I don't even care about that. I like that he and they are competitive and want to milk the NFL for every penny they can get. I think he wants to win a lot of games. I think he wants to be the hero. You gotta love all that. So why do I have this weird feeling? Am I just scared something is too good to be true? Every other new Bears QB was a reach or they fell, and so I thought "wow we went up to grab Trubisky, or wow Justin fell to us!" this time you get your pick. Theyre all available to us. Maybe I'm just spooked by that. i dunno. But the more I research him, the more I try to disprove him watching film, the more he wins me over. It's possible that we are looking at the moment when everything changed for the Bears. This might be the next GOAT. It's exciting, and having had my Bears heart broken so many times before, maybe I'm just scared to believe. But even that is fading the more film I watch. Lets go. *also I havent seen enough film on Daniels, Maye and a couple others yet to be sure that one of them isn't even mightier, but Im not expecting that. Williams looks really really good.

yes, it does seem to be more his father than Caleb himself. But there were rumors flying around in November that Caleb didnt want to go to the Bears and that his father was seeking an ownership stake in whatever team drafted him. Thankfully neither is true, and Caleb does seem to be a good young man with his head on straight in his interviews. Ive still got lots of film to watch, but the more i watch on him, the more impressed I am with him.

that was an EXAMPLE of how to use the archive.is for ANY link. That wasnt a real link. It was directions for ANY link. "youcantreadthis" isnt a website, its a placeholder? Here is the real link to that article - nothing in it is new, thankfully its all rehashed from several months ago. https://archive.is/CfiZZ

heres a cool trick for articles on sites that you or we dont subscribe to. if the URL is (for example, this is not a real URL) http://www.youcantreadthis.com then add "archive.is/" after the "http://" and before the "www" so the new link would be http://archive.is/www.youcantreadthis.com and then you can read it without paying.

offenses would be sweating our sweaty duo.

finally! those cheesheads have NO idea how lucky they were to have those QBs, and how bad they choked not winning or going to more SBs with them. Brady and Mahomes were AFC too, so they should have been able to at least get there...

amen

there must be a way to make your point without being so argumentative in tone. I've never seen adam say a harsh word to anyone.

I feel like Brady nailed this. It's been a real problem for the Bears from Nagy through Getsy. Fields fans will appreciate this, and so will Fields detractors. It really fits the truth of our situation in Chicago, and shines a light on what is missing. It indicts the coaches and QBs both.

I don't think McCarthy has the physical traits the others have, but he only lost one game in college. The kid is a winner. Someone will take him and find out what he can do.

It's early for me to be sure what I think, but Maye may be the best QB in this draft. To get the best QB and pick up some extra picks would not suck.