BearFan PHX

for sure, definitely written by a PR agent

Oh well thats much easier to answer. I have seen Fields dozens of times when he was not being rushed look at an open receiver as they came to the break in their route, have his hips open to that player and just not throw the ball. The idea that Justin couldnt do it because he was always being rushed is false. he may have seen plays with pressure, and every QB does, but he had literally dozens of times where what I describe happened. He had plenty of opportunities to show it and didnt, on plays where he had time. I even diagrammed some about a month back, you could see the pocket. Here's a good one. Think Mahomes wouldnt have made this play? Justin just didnt pull the trigger on Moore. Or the other open WR either. Instead he ran to the left out of the pocket. Why? Dozens of times Im saying out lout to the TV "THROW THE BALL!" So come on.

If they take a QB at #1, I will be excited for sure, and I will root for them to develop and ball out. I was over the moon when we got Justin Fields. Even as recently as the beginning of this season I was telling everyone this was Fields' year and he was gonna destroy the league. I'll feel the same about whoever we draft. But Im not gonna lie. If we trade down to #3, and get Daniels or Maye Im gonna be just as excited and a little less apprehensive. BUT after I watch all the film in Feb and March, I might become a total Williams fan too. Right now I only know the extra stuff, and I surely dont like it. But if Caleb is the man, and he is a Bear, I'm gonna be hopeful for that too.

I think he had a four year deal, and the Bears are only ever willing to eat one year of salary. We kept Nagy too long, we are keeping Eberflus too long etc. And it's DUMB because youve got a quarter billion dollars of players money on the field EVERY year, and if you eat an extra year of Eberflus, its nothing comparatively, but if you WIN with a better coach youll sell shirts and your franchise value will go up. With Harbaugh out there sniffing around, and some other big names available, to not even consider them is just malpractice.

it'll be mixed. my GUESS is that by March we will be in love with him as an athlete, and tell ourselves hes not a character risk. One one hand i could easily allow myself to be really down on him, and hope for Maye or Daniels or something, and on the other hand, he might really just be that good. But he could have kept his ego in check just a few times and been Captain America instead. And that's a mistake no matter what happens from here.

that he had to add "enters the process excited for whoever ends up selecting him." is spin for a problem Caleb has created.

Its a well crafted piece of PR. Im sure it has truth in it as well, and I doubt very much that he wrote it. First off I am very glad he is remaining in the draft and not pulling a supplemental draft stunt. If he had not entered the draft, it would have put a serious crimp in the value of our first pick - whatever we choose to do with it. Unless we are taking Maye or Daniels with #1, Williams' absence would have cost us plenty. Secondly, I'm not sold that he's a team player. I think the things he's said and the things his father has said are red flags. Im not saying they would prevent me from taking Williams - I still need to see a lot more film before I have an opinion on any of that. But he's been arrogant, selfish and egotistical, and it does cause me more than some concern. That fact that he even had to write this letter is evidence of the problem. This will require more watching and attention - but I'm glad he is in the draft for sure. it would have been much worse if he wasn't. Sheesh what a mess.

If you hire a coach on a four year plan, and they make a ton of unforced errors, you fire them before the plan is over. If the coach was making good choices, but losing because the roster wasnt there, thats one thing, but when they are making bad choices on their own, there is no reason to keep them. If Im at a restaurant, and the appetizers are massively undercooked, and the entree is completely undercooked - I dont need to order dessert to know the meal sucked.

Oh for sure - I dont think anyone is saying Bagent should have started over Fields - just using Bagent as a baseline to show that Fields being sacked so much isnt just the OL and WRs, but Fields holding on to the ball too long - compared to Bagent who didnt hold it too long, but threw more interceptions.

This is great

Im not trying to avoid the question youre asking, I promise - I love a good debate - I guess Im not understanding what im missing? If i hear you right now, maybe this answers? Yes Mahomes would absolutely succeed in the system we ran for Justin AND we wouldnt have run such a limited system if we werent so scared of Justin's shortcomings. Getsy would have called more pocket pass plays if hed trusted Justin. Now we are going to agree, that if that is true, it could be said that the coaches were being TOO scared. Id have rather let Justin have more regular pass plays, even if to prove himself not the guy, but at the same time, on a large percentage of the ones they gave him, he wasnt able to pull the trigger within the design of the play. And if youre Getsy, you dont want to keep having Justin fail in front of everyone and lose games, so you dial it back and try to find ways to win with him. It just means a lot of screens at the end of the day cuz those were the only plays they KNEW Justin would throw the ball in rhythm. So its a chicken and the egg thing. So yes Mahomes would make any system work, and Getsy wouldnt have throttled down Mahomes the way he probably felt he had to with Fields? ANd yes you can blame Fields and Getsy for that of course. Jackson is Jackson, so I dont know what he'd do. I do know that the quick shift Herster-like homerun runs we saw from Fields in 2022 were missing this year. My guess is they gave him a rule to slide rather than try to put a move on defenders. For injury concerns thats understandable, but i dont think Jackson would listen to that coaching, so hed be successful in this offense maybe by not listening to the safe aspects of the coaching? Do I blame Justin for listening? No that wouldnt be fair. So I think some of the limiting factors of the offense were attempts to deal with Justin's weaknesses. Did I address what youre asking about? If Im still missing it, say more please?

or even try. "Eberflus is not only worth keeping, he is the best option out there" really.

Im with you. I havent seen anywhere near enough, and a lot of what I need to see, no one has edited yet LOL And I look forward to your first hand accounts of their body language - do they stand apart from, or joke around with the other QBs etc. I wanna see if the other QBs like him on a personal level while they are there?

Exactly. We dont object to running QBs, we object to QBs that cant read defenses and throw in rhythm. Mahomes does that all day.

I think its a wasted year, but if it gets rid of Eberflus then as long as we get a 2025 first round draft pick out of it, to package with our first rounder, to go up and get a rookie QB next year, then it wont be a franchise kill shot. Just a waste of a year on the window of the roster weve built. If on the other hand we stock up the team around Fields, and leave no ammo to replace him in the 2025 draft, then I think we lived through 2022 for nothing and will be right back to the same awful place we've been for 30 years. 6 to 9 wins. Good enough to not get a top pick where the difference makers are, but bad enough not to win anything in post season. If they trade Fields, then Im still not thrilled with keeping Eberflus, but at least we'd still be on schedule with the roster. Fields had this year to prove his case, and all he did was prove that he doesnt belong as a starting QB. Will he grow next year? Who knows? Maybe! But I wouldnt bet on it personally. And i wouldnt pay him the big money right now, i think that's a huge error. Put another way - what is the fair market price for CJ Stroud right now? at least 3 first round picks. You couldnt offer the Texans just our #1 pick for Stroud. Why take a risk when they already have what they have, right? So whatever you get trading that thing down, no matter how amazing, no matter how many positions you fill, it isnt worth a CJ Stroud, no less a Pat Mahomes or a Payton Manning etc. Now, if there is not a great QB in this draft (maybe there isnt) then just taking a guy with the first few picks doesnt magically make him CJ Stroud. I agree. But there are 4 or 5 tantalizing prospects in this year's draft, and one of them at least is gonna be good. Which one? That's the tough question. But keeping Fields isnt a tough call at all - for me. Also, having your cake and eating it too could be just trading down to #3 or so, and still taking a QB.

Justin Fields wants to tell a pretty girl hello, but he hesitates until the moment has passed, and then either deftly runs into a bar to pick up someone else, or asks her too late after shes already married. 1 in 10 times, the girls husband beats him up too. And at least once a game, he fumbles too. I dunno what he fumbles in this metaphor - his phone? His testicles? LOL

I do think any player can develop, so i wont make unsubstatiated guesses at what he could become, but so far no way. He is neither of those QBs. I think you have the argument backward. There are two different abilities. One is reading defenses, and getting the ball out to the right guy in rhythm. Let's call that Pocket Passing. Then there is exceptional extra athleticism. Some QBs have it and some dont. Justin has about as much of it as any QB ever. The guys you listed have BOTH. So when I say you need to be a capable Pocket Passer, you hear me saying that Exceptional Athleticism doesnt work. But Im not saying that at all. Im saying it has to come along WITH Pocket Passing. Mahomes has a ton of it. And Jackson is a lot better at it too - more than JF has ever been able to do it. Im not against running, but I am against QBs who cant read a defense. Running alone isnt enough. You heard the Packers LB say that their plan was to take away JFs first read because then he gets flustered and runs. They know it. You saw our coaches take the ball out of Fields hands and limit his plays where he reads defenses. They Know it too. The reason we called so many roll outs and screens is because those are passes where the QB has to throw the ball, and doesnt make a read. Yes, some of the roll outs have a high low concept so you make a single read. But our opponents know it. Our coaches know it. The pundits know it. The GMs who wont trade a first rounder for him know it. Saying Fields has shown that he can execute an offense from the pocket is simply false. Saying that he is very athletic and can still grow to do better at reading defenses is an opinion. I dont share it, but anyone is entitled to it. But stop telling me that Fields is already great at that or even serviceable at it and its just everyone else's fault that we havent see it, cuz that's nonsense LOL

I think we've all seen many many clips of Fields staring down open receivers and not pulling the trigger in time. He hesitates, and the window closes, then he runs. This isnt new or controversial at all. It's a lot of excuses out there for Justin, but it's been the #1 criticism of him even before the Bears drafted him. All the pre draft analysis of him says it. So does three years of film. Hes got a ton of athleticism, but he doesnt execute the offense. This isnt just my little pet theory, it's widely discussed, even among those who think Justin will eventually break through. Some may think that Justin will grow and become a great passer. I have my opinion, but no crystal ball. But you cant say that hasnt been his primary issue up until now - thats just peein on me and telling me its raining? The future is unknown, but the past is written and on tape and the truth is the truth. Justin is not secretly already an awesome executor of the offense, but we just cant see it because of the OL and WRs. Thats ridiculous.

oh Id settle for just one of them LOL

that's what its supposed to look like. especially completion percentages over 70%. That gets it done.

coaching matters! Is there anyone here that wouldn't trade Matt Eberflus for Matt LaFleur striaght up right now?

Grizz, are you actually arguing that Fields doesn't hold the ball too long? I mean every article pro and con about Fields concedes that he holds the ball and is hesitant to pull the trigger. Some say hes getting better, some say its someone else's fault, Getsy, WRs, OL. Maybe thats true. But the idea that he doesn't have this problem at all is brand new to me. We saw much lower sack percentages from other QBs playing behind the same OL under the same system, with the same WRs. If Justin Fields was a GOAT QB, and just had this line and WR squad, we'd already know it. He isn't.

of course. we all hope every Bears player and coach plays well and makes great decisions. That includes Poles though too. I am cynical about this year we are heading into. The offseason will bring lots of great value to the Bears' roster, and I sure hope it excels. But especially if we bring back Fields as the starter, Im really afraid that we will be saying "told you so" next year and have lost a year ont he window of this improving roster, squandering what we bought by tanking in 2022. We put up with that for change, not for consistency. Not until youre winning the division at least do I want to hear about consistency. We did the brave stuff we needed to do, now is not the time to take our foot off of the gas pedal, or we are going to go back to being trapped at 6 to 9 wins every year like we have been for decades. Filling out the 2nd WR is important, but QB and head coach are probably the two most important positions, and looking for continuity there from last year is a mistake in my view. I hope Im wrong.

if you count one one thousand etc, and see Fields hold the ball - that's why. Good NFL QBs would get rid of the ball before the rush got to them. Yes sometimes it's the line, but a lot of times it was Fields. Also, it's good to see you posting more here, I hope things are progressing well toward health for your wife.

every week is a different game plan, and you know you cant say that because team A beat team B, and team B beat team C, that means that team A would beat team C. Also, GB only scored 17 because it was enough to win. Yes our defense is good and getting better, but if GB had needed another touchdown to win the game, they would have called the plays differently too. And Lucky isnt saying the players, hes saying the play calling on defense. Even Brisker criticized it after the game. And this is the same playcaller that lost THREE games in historic ways by being too safe and too soft and blowing what should have been historically insurmountable leads. It is absolutely fair to say that Poles has built an excellent defensive roster while simultaneously criticizing Eberflus' scheme and playcalling. Those things are not mutually exclusive, and pointing to the success of one doesnt mean the other isnt substandard. I'll tell ya what we can agree on - let's not replace Eberflus with Dallas' DC