BearFan PHX

Caleb certainly has all the football tools coming in. From here, the most likely bust scenarios come from the Bears failing Caleb rather than the other way around. I'm sure Fields fans can agree on that. I don't know a lot about Waldron, but the little I do know looks good. I'm also hearing that our passing game coordinator, Thomas Brown, is an up and coming dynamic talent that's expected to be an amazing head coach some day by people around the league. It seems they're grooming him for an Offensive Coordinator position. He'll be working closely with Caleb, and supposedly provide feedback and a check to those above him about what works and what doesn't from Caleb (and his) point of view. He's going to be unsung but very important for us, and his apparent reputation is another reason to hope things are going to go well for the Bears development of Williams. I dunno how long we will be able to keep them all, but we seem to have assembled a hell of a staff.

yup - it's the beginning of the Bears window opening. Gonna be very exciting to see it unfold. We have certainly paid the price in failure to get to this moment, and it will be gratifying to see Poles turn possibility into a winning roster.

This all seems logical and likely to me too. I also imagine Poles will add at least one more offensive lineman.

I guess, but after we've basically told the world (with our actions) that we don't believe in Justin, how could anyone expect him to come back and give his all for us? And if by some chance he did come back and succeed, I dont imagine him sticking around as soon as he is able to go somewhere else? So while the action to trade him has not yet been taken for sure, I think the door on him returning has realistically closed?

exactly, so one is gonna have to come from free agency

it sure would be good to have 3 more 2nd or 3rd round picks! But it's always like that. I'd like to keep Brisker, and i feel like Lus does too, so maybe youre right about McKinney. Zone teams generally put more money up front anyway, so thats another reason they may not want to pay big $ to a FS.

There is no doubt that the Bears didnt help Fields at all. Nagy was a disaster for everyone, and from his first start thrown against the Browns defensive line without even first team reps was a crime. After that, they tore the team down to the studs in 2022, and we werent going to win any games. Last year Justin had a better situation, but there was a lot of pressure up the middle that made things tougher. You could easily forgive everything those first two years, and even understand losing a bunch of games this past year, but Justin also didn't show flashes of reading defenses or getting the ball out in rhythm, playing in structure etc, and his mechanics have been consistently poor - so he didnt shine either. It's fair to say that the Bears didnt help Justin enough, but it's also fair to say that Justin didn't take what they gave him either. At any rate, we are moving forward and I am extremely excited about our future.

another possibility could be free agent Connor Williams from Miami. Hes recovering from injury, and the Bates trade allows them a minute to wait for him. But one way or another I think it's very likely they will add another center to this roster beyond Bates.

for sure. and he is definitely taking it as a serious issue.

^5 I'm sure we will (all) disagree at points too, but I cant imagine it being as emotional as it has been with Fields. I was early off the Fields train, and it hasn't been easy. I think we are all going to be blown away by Williams. He'll make mistakes too, he's not a God, but he's a pretty damned good prospect. Did you watch the Kurt Warner link I put above? I mean seeing it for yourself is just so powerful.

Amen! And welcome to the board!

Yeah, it's awesome! Poles has been disciplined all along the way, and waiting for years where there was talent to plug holes at those positions. Getting this kind of timing is a benefit of that kind of discipline finally paying off. It's not really luck or supernatural, but it sure does feel like the football Gods are starting to like us. Poles has made this luck - it's our time.

we are starting to look like a real roster. We dont need a haul of picks to put this puzzle together. I mean, sure it'd be amazing, but even more amazing will be putting a real QB into this mix too. I exepct another OL player in the under $10M range too. So a couple impact players AND a few more role fillers too. I truly think Poles is taking the OL seriously this offseason.

I assume, and I hope that by training camp we are all on the same page. I didnt post this because Kap says move on from Fields, because i think Pat did a great job articulating the keep Justin arguments too. But Im saying, you can see a guy in Kap who calls this trend a "cult" and "insane" and how many people have questioned his character - they both agree it's the most divisive issue in Chicago Sports history. They say that Twitter and everywhere else are "toxic" right now. So I'm saying it's not just me. And a lot of people are calling each other haters and worse for wanting Justin gone. You may think it's my tone that's so awful, but Kap had the same tone about the same point. It's not just me. And it's not uncommon. For example, I'm not calling anyone a "pig" or something like that which would be purely an insult. I'm saying it's "crazy" and "inane" and keeping Justin because you think he's going to get better is "delusional" - those are all descriptions of what i think is going on. Im directly saying I think it's become psychological in nature. Kap said the same. So it's not meant to be rough, it's meant to be descriptive of the mechanism I think I'm seeing. Some kind of cultural trend to see Justin as a victim and rally behind him. And it's nice on a personal level, but as a football strategy I think it is "crazy" meaning illogical. No need to argue whether it is crazy or not, because that's not my point here, my point is that people who are my side of the debate really think this. We're kind of shocked at it, and can't understand it at all. So this is sportstalk, not over the line awful or abusive, so let's stop using that to try to win points that are really about Fields and Williams if we can. What I've been saying is a mainstream position held by a lot of people, including those specific words. "crazy" "inane" "cult" "turd" "delusional" these arent fighting words.

Here is Kap on ESPN, posted 22 minutes ago, after everything that's been said, so not influenced by it at all, and the first minute says everything for me. It's not me you're mad at. This same conversation is happening all over Chicago. And I had no idea that Kap would use the word "cult" either. I'm not out there guys. It's just a different point of view, and it is authentically held, not with anger, but this is what I really think is happening.

right so he's trade bait after the 2026 season rather than getting nothing we could get a second or third - Poles absolutely knows how to play this draft and trade game with the cap. It really makes you realize how mismanaged our team has been for such a long time. I have a feeling that the new Bears era is about to begin.

I agree with you. I don't ever want to bring that up again. I would prefer if people didn't all just take their turns telling me how awful I am for saying "turd" a couple months ago or "delusional" when critiquing an argument being made, and I'm just saying that is in part because they didn't like what went on. But in this case is had nothing to do with you at all. So you're right and this comment of yours wasnt rude or anything. I would prefer to stop talking about it too, and that's fair.

OK I watched it - 20 minutes, and it says so much. There's bad in there too - thats why you have to watch complete games in order and not highlight or lowlight reels. But I encourage everyone to watch this and then be a reporter and tell us fairly what you saw.

take a deep breath. I mean in the NFL Fields hasn't been a winner. As for being nasty, read the tone of what youve just written. you (and others) are coming after me SOOO hard and saying I'm such a bad guy. I'm not. No one in my life feels this way. You're really far off base. But the irony is I'm talking football, the amount of personal stuff here toward me way outweighs anything from me. You might not want to hear this, but the reason you and others are so mad at me is two fold - 1) you cant stand that I'm right about Justin and how sure I am about it and 2) you got a really bad taste in your mouth about when I went after Stinger because I was done having him try to bully me for years and needed to set some personal boundaries. All through that time, I said in almost every post - let's just stop. That's all I wanted. Anyway, When you watch the all 22 full games (not highlights), watch for these things: getting the ball out quick on timing plays when the WR is open making reads, and going through progressions looking off safeties his incredible compact release and body position when he throws ball placement for WRs to gain YAC. what he does when plays break down. Youll also see some super human plays of the type that Justin makes too. What you wont see is Williams standing there indecisive. When you see him move around, watch him work BACK to the pocket and how his movement helps his blockers get position. Not taking off to run like Fields does, although that is also a thing Caleb does well. It's fine if you come away from that game (The Alabama game I cant find a public link to) with mixed reviews on Caleb. Anyone will. But you wont see evidence of the narratives you've read, and you should think about what that might mean in the larger sense of all the sports stuff we all consume. Lemme try to find you a good link. OK... Here is Kurt Warners all 22 breakdown on Caleb vs Colorado. I havent seen it yet. It just came out today, so let's call that a fair test and both watch it. Im sure it wont be perfect. But will it support or dispel the common knowledge narratives?

GREAT NEWS! Bears sign Jaylon Johnson to a 4 year $76M deal ($19M/yr avg) with $54M guaranteed. We got him locked up and he did not break $20M. This is a great deal for us. Lets go!

One way you can tell a cult is that they believe things they have no evidence for, and attack anyone who says they are wrong. Some think I am a horrible person because I wont go along with the crowd saying the King is outfitted in splendor. You read articles about his clothes and how fine they are. But just look at him. He's stark naked. Trust your own eyes, and you will not be angry at me anymore. And dont be offended when someone doesnt respect something you heard someone ELSE say as if you said it yourself. Watch the film. Anyone can do it. And it's clear as day. But if you must follow what others are saying, can you not see that increasingly all the writers etc are going over to the Caleb camp? It's not even a matter of common wisdom anymore since the common wisdom (which is often wrong!) is on team Caleb now too. Don't get stuck doubling down on bad ideas just because you supported them before. If you want the Bears to win, then pick a great QB, or at the very least stop attacking anyone who wants to. I feel NO shame whatsoever for having the opinion I hold, I routinely use facts to back it up and I also think the support for Fields at this point is psychological and not fact based. And it explains all the anger too. That's my opinion. But no matter all of this, I promise you that trying to use peer pressure to change my mind is foolish. Some may crumble under that pressure and submit, but I promise you I have never been that guy. When my eyes see something firsthand, I don't give up on that for someone to like me - that's incredibly weak. I think it's time for you guys to back off.

OK, first thing is that I am not saying every #1 pick QB is going to set the world on fire. What I am saying is you need a top 2 QB in the league to reliably compete for superbowls. I can also say that you are more likely to find that with a top pick. We've broken down all those stats before, so I wont repeat them here. As for you being tired of my opinion, I dont know what to say. Fields has never been a winner, all anyone has for him is excuses. Maybe those excuses are real and he is an amazing QB in the making that just needs support around him, but since he doesnt read defenses, holds the ball too long and is now decoded by NFL defenses, I think passing on an incredible talent like Williams to keep Fields is delusional. That's my opinion. My opinion is also that people are over in love with Fields for some reason, and it clouds their judgement. When you say "save the pettiness" while simultaneously saying that when I say Fields is "a great guy and a terrific athlete" I'm LAZY, then I think that's pettiness too (by YOUR definition not mine) and I dont mind you saying that at all, you dont have to stop - so don't pretend I'm some big meanie for saying "delusional" or "turd." It's just another technique to try to beat me without facts, and it's self serving and false. As for Williams, you just said all you have is what's on paper; just raw numbers. You have to watch the film. I am not super intelligent or smarter than everyone, I've just done the homework, and spent the hours watching the film. Anyone can do it. I'm not special, but I did do the work. I encourage you to watch some all 22 Williams film too and see if the narratives you've read stand up. I would bet that you'll come out of it the same way I did. It's glaring on the screen, and it's not what the sportwriters are/were saying. Williams makes reads, Justin doesn't. Williams throws the ball on time with anticipation and location for YAC, Justin doesn't. Williams meshes with the RB where Justin is lazy with that. Williams' release is incredible and compact, Justin pats the ball and hesitates. Williams stands tall in the pocket with an elongated spine, Justin squats down as he throws. And there is more. As to your point about college ball, Justin Fields was not even in the discussion to be a #1 pick, he was taken at #11, the 4th QB taken - that's what scouts thought about Justin coming out of college. Compare to all the noise about Williams being generational, and I think to say that Justin was a better prospect coming out of college is just factually wrong. Also Fields played on a team with lots of players who are in the NFL, Williams had nothing. And where are the first round draft pick offers to trade for Fields? Why isn't the NFL clamoring to get him on their team? There IS a reason. Teams would reportedly trade a huge haul for Caleb, but hesitate on a second rounder for Fields. But again, that's all just noise. Watch the film. It tells a clear story if you know what to look for, and like I said it isn't rocket science. But here's a real question - how can you be so offended that I don't respect the pro Fields opinion when you haven't watched the all 22? Is it your opinion or did you read it somewhere and attach yourself to it, and now you're defending it like it's your own and my opinion is somehow disrespecting what you READ someone else say? I see how personal everything is getting here, how much the Justin lovers want so bad to tell me off and put me in my place. That's on you guys. And it's ugly. The fact is that Justin is not a good QB, he ranks last or close to last in the league in most measurables, he never had a 4th quarter comeback, he doesn't read defenses or play in structure or tempo, he has a slow release and hesitates to throw. What is the big love all about? The guy is NOT good. But as to the idea that Caleb holds the ball too long, again I ask you to watch the film. Williams isn't running for his life like Fields does, he's manipulating the pocket like Aaron Rodgers does and then finding his receivers. Did he look for too many long throws? Yes for the NFL for sure he did. But then again, he won every game he put up 30 points in. His defense was terrible and he had to score a lot. But there are dozens and dozens of plays where Williams reads and the ball is out quick. The narrative is a lie based on an average timing, with no inclusion of the standard deviation on that number. That means Williams can and does play in tempo and structure all the time. He also manipulates the pocket and creates more time to throw, just like Aaron Rodgers. The guy is going to be the Bears savior, and Justin is gonna flunk out of the league. You can book that. So I'd advise getting on the Williams train so you don't end up screaming into the wind. Reality is calling, just watch the tape with your own eyes and make your own decisions, and Ill bet you'll come back and tell me I was right. Because it's all there to see easily. Just see for yourself. Maybe you'll even be angry at how you were lied to by media. You say "And to compare him [Williams] to how well he’ll measure up to Fields professionally is skeptical at best." Ok you're on record. If Caleb Williams lights it up and takes Chicago to the promised land are you going to say you were wrong? Because if it was your choice, you wouldn't have drafted him, and you're going to have to live with that.

I am looking forward to learning more about him! All the stats are good, but I dont believe anything, positive or negative until I see the film, but that said, I have reasons for optimism based on what I've read for sure. Part of the reason for my delay is I'm waiting for some of my favorite film sources to post their Maye videos. The media sandbags, but a lot of the time they dont even know theyre doing it. They look at some stats, and then a narrative evoleves, and then it just echoes around and often there is no truth to it at all, not because the reporters are lying on purpose, but because they are lazy and didnt watch the tape.

Williams isn't generational or ANYTHING in the NFL yet. What he is is the best prospect coming out of college in many years. Some people are so in love with Justin that they willingly ignore an amazing opportunity right in front of them, which I think is crazy. Great QBs picked #1 overall who won superbowls: Peyton Manning, John Elway, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, Eli Manning. But if this same old argument is coming around that since Mahomes was picked #10 youre better off drafting at #10 than #1, that is so off base. Im not even gonna go through it again.

the problem is that even with his amazing running ability, NFL defenses have figured out how to make him run into their defenders now that they know they dont have to play his passing game honestly. Green Bay players said as much after his last game. In order for Fields to thrive in the NFL, he will have to show mastery of skills he hasn't shown before. Smart money is that he never does and is out of the league in a few years having never won a playoff game. Sportwriters are exacerbating this problem by feeding the Fields lovers tidbits for clickbait that arent real.