AZ54

Wow the competition or depth we have on special teams coverage is getting really good. Mingo, McManis, Patterson, and even Shelley made some plays last year IIRC. Can someone like Denmark step up and join the party?

We didn't even know who KPL was at this time last year. Perhaps as Ashkum says we can find a similar depth player in FA after the draft.

That should tell us all we need to know about his value. You know Tom loves to throw to TEs and if he wanted him there he'd be staying.

Todd Gurley dragged the LA Rams into the playoffs with Jared Goff as their QB. Then he was injured and we saw what the QB really was. As far as Zeke there is no denying his impact on that offense. Dallas did have a very good Oline but they were using late Rd picks at RB for years with ok results. Zeke changed it overnight. He and Gurley kinda started this little resurgence in the popularity of RBs early in the draft. As far as Leno: If he's playing like he did last year, I don't think it will be much of a challenge to find an OT at 50 to take over for him. That might even be easy to do if we trade back into the 3rd Rd. Massie we can hold onto another year especially if we're running the ball 50% of the time (or more). I just know we need speed on offense having one legit home run threat on the field will help. While we can find fast RBs or WRs late in the draft they are not nearly as polished as Taylor is and won't be able to contribute as much in their rookie season. A WR at 43 like Reagor or Aiyuk should be to contribute this year too but I'm keeping all 3 of these guys on my wish list at 43.

Bobby Massie has been a starter for 8 years, soon to be 9.

Can we get this approved by the Commissioner?

That's generally the way I see it too but I thought it was interesting to go through the "what if" process. Taylor is the only one who really fits this need for speed. I have no interest in Swift or Dobbins early even though I like both as RBs. There are couple RB options with speed later in the draft but they have significant holes in their game: McFarland, Gibson, Darryton Evans but they might be the right complimentary piece to Montgomery.

No doubt that would be a good haul.

My mock at https://www.thedraftnetwork.com/mock-draft-machine looked like this: 43 Jonathan Taylor, RB Wisconsin 50 Jeremy Chinn, S Southern Illinois 163 Jack Driscoll, OT Auburn 196 Trevis Gipson, EDGE Tulsa 200 Dane Jackson, CB Pittsburgh 226 Tyrie Cleveland, WR Florida 233 Trey Adams, OT Washington

We've all talked about the need to add speed to our offense. At 43 there is a good chance Jonathan Taylor is on the board. He ran a 4.39 forty and that speed shows up on the field all the time. You constantly see players grabbing air. Or he just runs them over with his power. If we can't solve our QB problem, and there is little reason to be highly optimistic on either Trubisky or Foles, why not do what the Ravens did with Trent Dilfer: Run the ball behind two good RBs and let your defense do the talking. Of course Nagy will have to find a way to call a running play. I know there are concerns with run blocking but Ifedi is actually a very good run blocker. Same with Daniels and Whitehair. Massie does well too at least he's better there than chasing edge rushers. Leno would be the weak link of course but he can usually get in the way of someone (sadly not always). In any case we could draft an OT at 50. Or we get the ideal trade back from 50 and use those two picks on OT and then S. There are some decent WRs that can be had late in the draft if we want some speed (Devin Duvernay) and with so much depth at WR teams at some point will be done with WR and be focused on adding other positions. I haven't done any of my mocks this way because I've been of the mindset we can grab a RB on day 3. Yet this option fills several needs: 1) Don't put all your eggs in the TruFoles basket 2) Add speed to the offense and 3) Be able to run enough clock on offensive possessions to get the D some rest so they can still shutdown the other team in the fourth quarter. Toss in the fact rookie RBs are much more likely to be effective in their first season as opposed to rookie WRs. Wear down a defense and now your jet sweeps with Cohen or Patterson suddenly look like much better play calls in the 2nd half. I have to say watching defenders tackle Taylor and Montgomery all game long would make me smile. I don't think it can be done for 4 quarters as long as our Oline is decent. My biggest hang up here is I can't envision Nagy calling 7 running plays in a row even if he's gaining 5 yards each.

Thanks. Matt Miller I check on weekly. I really like his insight on the later rounds. I haven't stopped by GBN or Ourlads in a long time so I need to do so.

I see the logical thinking in that but IMO it fits if Nagy is 100% confident, or even highly confident, he's working on a 2 year timeline. However, I think Nagy's seat is just as hot as Pace's, if not more. The play calling was horrendous at times last year for a guy that was brought in primarily to fix the offense. Right now we're sitting with a coaching staff composed of a former HC (Pagano), former OCs (Lazor, DeFilippo). If the offense struggles especially in the run game play calling like last year then I could see Pace make a last ditch effort to save his job and fire Nagy mid-season. Remember Pace gave Nagy the backup QB he wanted in Foles which is supposed to ensure the offense is somewhat effective. Foles was a Superbowl MVP in a very similar offense with the same QB coach so this expectation is reasonable. If the offense isn't clicking decently with Foles at QB then where does the problem lie? If the ship is sinking mid-season why not see if Pagano can right it and get you into the playoffs? Let Lazor run the offense with Castillo taking charge of the run game while Pagano still runs the D. If you were in that spot would you want to use a 4th or 5th Rd pick on a Safety to pair up with BoJack? Or on a QB who definitely won't help you win a single game this year, maybe not even next year, but possibly will two years down the road? I wouldn't. I'm taking someone that can help this year even if it's special teams or as a backup I can have some confidence in if needed due to injuries.

Geno Stone would fit the bill as a late draft pick, he's very good as a downhill player, but his highlights don't include anything in man coverage (zone yes) so that's telling. This late in the draft you pick and choose your strengths/weaknesses. JR Reed seems like more of a smart coverage type, maybe without the deep speed you really want on the backend but versatile. Jones looks like he's somewhere in the middle of the two. All are good options for us. There are a few others in the 4th/5th Rd range that look like they can contribute this year. Where did you get those overall rankings? That's the first time I've seen Delpit ranked ahead of McKinney. It's more data proving the point that DB rankings both CB and S are all over the place in this draft.

He looks like a decent late round prospect. That 3-cone time of 6.8 is ridiculous. His biggest drawback is his short arms (31 3/8") and NFL OTs will make it hard for him to get off blocks if he can't win early. That will keep him from ever being a run down player but his quickness and agility might get you a rotational pass rusher and good special teams player. He might bring more to the table than Irving does.

While I have been adamant we should not draft a QB this year we absolutely need to sign one. Tyler Bray signed a deal that pays him handsomely for the work he'll put in. With the roster expanding to 55 players we might keep 3 QBs. We might not but either way I expect we'll at least have one QB on the practice squad because Bray has no more eligibility. Also teams usually have 4 QBs in training camp we only have 3 signed right now. I still don't see Pace using a draft pick not even a 7th Rd one this year but finding and paying a decent UDFA QB makes a lot of sense. Long term we're not going to keep paying Bray $1mil to be a 3rd string QB so we might as well start getting someone else in the pipeline for that role.

Pray he's fast enough to get wide open.

I never said I don't like Mahomes and you can go back and see my pre-draft thoughts where I said I had Trubisky as 1a and Mahomes as 1b. Watson was #2. It is correct that I don't see much difference between Watson and Trubisky but we'll find out now that Watson no longer has a top 3 WR to throw to. Certainly Watson has had more success but watching him in his last playoff game (which he won) was as painful as any of the worst Trubisky games. Even the announcers were struggling to put a positive spin on it but in the end he ran multipe times on the last drive for the winning TD, which was probably smart given how he was throwing the ball that day. If Mahomes didn't throw so many multiple INT games in college I'd have preferred him as 1a but after all those years with Cutler doing the same I was a bit gun shy. He's had some of those same games in the NFL too but I never denied his arm talent. I definitely think that offense has masked some of his tendencies to take risks and there's so much talent that it still often works for the best. Alex Smith was Pro Bowl QB, and even MVP candidate running that same offense. Nobody really wanted him. I live in AZ, I watched a couple games with Gordon with focus that maybe he'll be a good prospect for us. I never saw it, in fact some of the stuff he did made me as frustrated as what Trubisky does. On a positive note, like Trubisky he'll make some really nice off-schedule, off-platform throws that make you think there's much more potential there. Then the arm strength is a bit lacking especially for our stadium. For those reasons I think he'll end up a career backup. By the way that Morgan guy out of FIU has the same issue Trubisky has with side stepping as he throws and it causes him to throw off-target a lot, or short on deep passes. I don't want him either as a draft pick. I'd take either him or Gordon as a UDFA because that costs us nothing and we can try to fix the issues on the practice squad. I simply view other positions or players as having better value for our roster than a guy I see as a career backup QB. That's especially true when we already have two backups on the roster, and a 3rd stringer in Bray. I just think the most likely scenario is that we're looking for a new starting QB next year. Trubisky has the physical talent to succeed but he fades in the spotlight and that hasn't changed at all in 3 years. If we will need a legit starting QB in 2021 I think we should make the entire roster as good as it can be with our draft picks this year. Fix OT, at least one side. Then at least it's one position we focus on fixing next year. Maybe it's Derek Carr we end up with in 2021? That's why I like that Pace went out and got Quinn opposite Mack for the next few years. Trevathan too along side Roquan, Jackson signed long term. The D will give us a shot to win it all this year and next, with a little luck maybe in 2022 as well. Maybe Andrew Luck decides he wants to play again?

Not so sure about Wims, he should have shown a lot more last year than what we got from him. There were plenty of opportunities for him too. I have more confidence in Ridley stepping up than Wims. Maybe last year's performance wakes up Wims and he puts in the work this year. However, keep in mind that despite his physical talents he never really had a lot of success in college either. There's a trend here.

I don't think we have any reason to look at a QB in the later rounds. We just paid Tyler Bray $45k guaranteed and around $900k salary to be our 3rd string QB. He knows this offense far better than any mid-to-late Rd rookie will this year. We also have two QBs who have taken their teams to the playoffs, one to a Superbowl. Whether either will return to form is a question but that won't be solved by adding a subpar prospect who will need at least one and likely two years of backup play to get rid of his bad habits. Note his physical limitations (arm strength) won't be getting better in Soldier Field's weather conditions. If both Foles and Trubisky fail this year then having Anthony Gordon on the roster will not change the fact we need to draft a starting caliber QB in 2021. We know Foles won't get us great QB play, he's a serviceable QB but he could win with a great defense. That's Foles' ceiling, it's a known commodity and we should not expect more. The only question is if Trubisky can achieve his ceiling for which his potential is much higher. If Trubisky continues to struggle as he did last year then we'll be going with Foles. The only irony here is that for a missed FG Trubisky would have beaten Foles in the playoff game. I have no clue who exactly was left on the board in that draft with Gordon at 196 but there are many players who can be capable backups in this area of the draft who will have future starting potential: Ben Bartch OG (Adam already drafted an OG), Joe Reed WR, Dane Jackson CB, Lynn Bowden Jr. WR. Since Gordon will not answer the starting QB question for 2021 we should make the rest of the roster stronger so we can trade up/whatever next year to get the QB. Guys like Gordon who struggle outside the numbers and downfield end up as a backups or maybe occasional starters. Yet you can find that type of QB every year in the draft, or in FA as a backup if you prefer experience. https://sports.yahoo.com/quantifying-quarterbacks-anthony-gordon-164323496.html Quantifying Quarterbacks is an NFL Draft focused quarterback charting project geared toward providing as much information about as much of a quarterback's recent career as possible. Over 20 data points are recorded for any given pass attempt, ranging from down-and-distance, personnel grouping, play-action, depth of target, accuracy, and much more. Quantifying Quarterbacks charts the entirety of a quarterback's final college season, as well as a smaller sample (four games) from their previous season. All of this charting is done manually by me during and after the college football season. For a more in-depth look at what exactly Quantifying Quarterbacks is, here is a link to last year's final product: 2019 Quantifying Quarterbacks. Anthony Gordon Charting Profile Distance (Usage Rate)Left OutsideLeft MiddleRight MiddleRight OutsideTotal 20+ (9.83%)2/11 (2 INT)4/6 (3 TD)5/11 (2 TD, 1 INT)4/12 (2 TD, 1 INT)15/40 (7 TD, 4 INT) 16-20 (4.67%)1/14/6 (2 INT)2/26/10 (2 INT)13/19 (4 INT) 11-15 (13.76%)0/114/22 (1 TD, 1 INT)15/21 (2 TD, 1 INT)7/12 (2 TD, 1 INT)36/56 (5 TD, 3 INT) 6-10 (11.79%)3/4 (1 TD)9/12 (1 TD)19/27 (2 TD)4/5 (1 TD)35/48 (5 TD) 1-5 (34.64%)6/6 (1 TD)43/51 (2 TD)57/68 (1 TD, 2 INT)11/16 (1 TD)117/141 (5 TD, 2 INT) 0 (22.36%)3/438/40 (3 TD)36/36 (1 TD)10/1187/91 (4 TD) Total (407 plays)15/27 (2 TD, 2 INT)112/137 (10 TD, 3 INT)134/165 (8 TD, 4 INT)42/66 (6 TD, 4 INT)303/395 (26 TD, 13 INT) Games Charted: North Colorado, Houston, New Mexico State, UCLA, Oregon, Utah, Oregon State, Washington (all from 2019) CHARTING EXTRAS Blatant Drops: 9 Forced Adjustments: 11 (2.70%) Contested Drops: 20 Passes Defended: 30 Explosive Plays: 44 (10.81%) Throwaways: 12 Air Raid often gets conflated as "vertical passing offense" when that is not necessarily the case. As for Anthony Gordon's year behind center at Washington State, Mike Leach's Air Raid offense certainly was not a vertical attack. Not even 15% of Gordon's pass attempts were beyond the 15-yard mark -- still an average to slightly below-average rate, but certainly not one of a highly-aggressive offense. Of course, this low percentage of deep passes is in part because Washington State "replaces" running plays with screens and short passing concepts while throwing 50+ times per game, which skews the passing rates away from deep passing. Even still, Gordon's target frequency down the field is no different than the average quarterback, Air Raid or otherwise. Perhaps the most notable trend in Gordon's passing chart is how little he targeted outside the numbers. Just under 25% of Gordon's attempts were to the outside portion of the field. Whereas most quarterbacks have fairly even spreads throughout each of the quadrants, Gordon almost entirely played between the numbers. Given Gordon does not have the strongest arm and only has the one year of tape, it is a minor concern that Gordon seemed unwilling and unable to throw outside the numbers. On only throw outside the numbers, Gordon held just a 61.83% adjusted accuracy rate, which is significantly lower than his base adjusted accuracy of 74.56%. Surely every QB is somewhat worse outside the numbers, but the stark drop-off in accuracy combined with the low target rate is enough evidence for this to be an issue for Gordon's profile. If I were to guess, part of Gordon's issue throwing outside is how lazy his feet are. While Gordon does have a flexible upper body with a strong, consistent release, footwork still plays a role in accuracy, especially when throwing outside the numbers. Gordon often fails to move his feet throughout his progressions or reset them upon throwing, which can lead to issues with his body being discombobulated as he is trying to get the ball out. Gordon is a stud over the middle, though. How much that can outweigh his struggles outside the numbers is up for debate, but a handful of quarterbacks such as Jared Goff, Case Keenum, and Andy Dalton have shown some success despite being notably worse outside the numbers than they are over the middle. Gordon may be able to fall into a similar archetype.

Make sure you watch some full games on him so you get to see his WTF moments.

The value system is and always will be just a baseline reference tool. Teams (not all) have always gone outside that to make deals if they felt it was in their best interest. See Herschel Walked trade, Ditka trades entire draft for a RB, etc. That brings me to your question...where will teams land in the value department. I think without the followup medical info and with the potential lack of OTAs teams will definitely be willing to put more chips on the table to get the sure thing.

I know he reminds me a lot of Hester, drop punt, take it the distance, and then even with some of his quick cuts. Supposedly he has some drop issues too as a receiver but he can also win on some contested catches which is where little guys like Gabriel and Hamler have issues. Aiyuk, like Reagor, still has to learn how to run routes too. It's definitely a mixed bag but it's always like that in Rd 2 and it won't be any different for a CB or OT we select: lots of goodness, some work still needed.

By the way there are a lot of contested catches in that highlight film that you will never see from Hamler. So while Hamler is faster I think Aiyuk and Reagor offer more versatility especially in the red zone. This is the quality character Pace likes the draft... https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2884200-tcus-jalen-reagor-on-why-guerilla-training-will-make-him-the-drafts-best-wr

Speed but more so quickness. I know what he timed at but his game tape is a little better than that. He might not be a 4.30 forty, but I think he's consistently running around 4.4s. That's enough to get behind someone and with his quickness if he learns how to run routes he'll be just fine. AMiller has the quickness in his cuts but he's not running away from anyone. Watch the punt return at 1:40. Aiyuk is very similar in the open field.

We will need a team that either has a significant need like Dallas does at Edge or CB, or a team that has so many picks they'd rather just move up to grab to ensure they get their targeted players. I've done several mocks where Dallas either goes CB in Rd 1 then trades up with us to get Edge in Rd 2 or vice versa. Y'all know Jerry always feels like he has a playoff team right now and needs that one guy to make it work. FWIW I'm not opposed to trading Cohen to help get additional picks. There are a multitude of players in Rd 4 who can provide what he does as a returner/receiver or be better at RB than he is. We might even find a UDFA RB in JJ Taylor who is better as a RB. If we were to draft Reagor then he can handle Cohen's WR role while he learns the playbook. Grab a RB, which we need anyway, on day 3. We still have Patterson for the occasional trick play stuff.