AZ54

I'm all in!

Reporters spread rumors but much of that comes from teams themselves either through their actions such as player visits or intentional leaks. Last year the rumors of the Bears liking Leonard Floyd were largely derived from his almost 3 day visit with the team. This year SF has been totally quiet about who they like at #2 and then suddenly it leaks out they like Trubisky. This after Cleveland makes inquiries about trading up, and they are the only team apparently actively inquiring about trading up. Now we all know every GM is making phone calls to every team asking about certain rounds and what they might be looking for in a trade up/down scenario. They all gauge interest because they all want a shortlist of who to call should they want to move up. There's only 10-15min on the clock, or less. There is little point of calling someone who says they won't trade down in the 1st Rd. If there were no rumors, no trades, no lies, and no major screw-ups like Cleveland taking Manziel at #22 then this wouldn't be as much fun. Modern technology enables us to get close to the action because it's easy to review many players' game tape or highlights and make our own evaluations. This is reality TV for corporate espionage in action and since we're dedicated fans who live and die with the results, we're part of it. The fans in Philly will make that known early.

IF there is any truth to this rumor it begs the question of why. There is a little rumor of the Bears liking Trubisky but he's also the QB we've spent the least time with among the top 4. On the flip side we've been very active around Watson, Mahomes, and Kizer. If we want Trubisky we'd just stay at #3 and take him, why trade back with Cleveland? Prior to this Cleveland was reportedly in talks with the Jets to trade up to #6. Apparently there are some rumors of the Jaguars being very interested in taking Watson at #4. http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2017/4/25/154...-could-take-him I've felt all along that Watson's leadership is the better fit for Cleveland (I'm sure I'll get change back on my 2 cents) so perhaps all this talk of Trubisky is smoke when their real target has been Watson all along. Thursday is going to be very interesting.

I'm good with this trade. The trade chart is a guideline not something that is set in stone. With so many teams looking to trade back because of the depth of this draft, and thus little reason for many teams to move up, it simply drops the market value of the early picks. Three 2nd Rd picks gives Pace tons of flexibility to maneuver anywhere he wants to be in the rest of the draft.

I do not see the Cardinals drafting a QB in the 1st Rd. Carson Palmer decided to come back for one more year to have a shot at the Superbowl. It seems Arians with his health issues could be in the same boat, and possibly Fitzgerald. I can't imagine the conversation with Palmer in the offseason was centered on him returning and then helping the team win by finding his replacement. Maybe in the 2nd Rd they'll draft a QB but in the first I expect they'll be drafting someone they think will help them win this year. Jets are a possibility but after putting so many resources into QBs lately I tend to think their management and coaches are in a spot where they must find immediate help this year. No QB is ready to help them. Buffalo might be tempted to draft a QB. That doesn't appear to be at the top of the fans' wish list. http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/04/25/n...ream-scenarios/

I liked this article and thought I'd post it. Interesting background on scouting and all those little things we will never know. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000080...eal-draft-intel

It depends on who we take in Rd 1 but I'll assume we take Adams. In Rd 2 there's a list of players I'd like to see: If any of the top 4 QBs are on the board take them. Kizer, Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson If that fails then I feel the same way if any of the top 3 OTs are on the board. Ramczyk, Bolles, Robinson When both fail: Other players I like are CB Awuzie, NB Baker, King, White, TE Evan Engram

I never wanted an in-the-box safety who can't cover. We already have one, although Peppers is better around the LOS. We need players who can cover, defend passes, and hopefully get some INTs. I'm good with Adams or Hooker in Rd 1, but if we go safety later I prefer the players who are better in coverage.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2705445...017-nfl-combine

I'd take Luck in heartbeat but you are correct that his glaring deficiencies have been conveniently overlooked by the media.

If his hip injury is not an issue then I like him and think he's a better fit in the rotation than Unrein.

I don't think Cleveland drafts a QB #1 overall. Garrett is just too good to pass up. I absolutely think they want to, and will, draft a QB early because they don't have one. If they walk away from the QBs again this year after trading away from Wentz then their owner is likely to fire the whole bunch after the season. We all know one of these QBs if not two, is very likely to be a good starter. Nobody knows which one. That leaves their #12 pick for the selection, or #33. If they think Trubisky, Watson, Kizer, or whoever is their target is, will be gone then I think they know they have to trade up to get him. It's a near certainty Trubisky and Watson will be gone before #33, probably Mahomes too. Kizer is up in the air because at such an expensive position ($20+mil/yr for a starter) it's fashionable for teams to trade up into the late 1st Rd to get that 5th year on the rookie contract. In the age of Osweiller and Glennon earning $14-15mil/yr the extra $10mil saved on year five can easily be used for FAs to offset the "missing" draft picks that were given up in the trade. Among the top 5 QBs Webb is most likely to be there at 33. Rumors have built that Trubisky is the Browns favorite. I think they'd be best off with Watson and his leadership. With the entire league knowing they will likely take a QB at #12 I don't think every team will sit back and let it happen without someone trading ahead of them to get their guy.

Of course I can see how players turned out but I'm really making that post regarding all the comments (in general) that I recall for these QBs, both in the media and here, leading up to their draft. It's not a perfect lens for seeing everything, and I'm just not doing the work to put up a bunch of links to back it up because I'm busy. At times we definitely weren't in the QB market and that naturally reduced the tension in how people think about drafting or even rating a QB. I don't recall many here who were in favor or Mariota (spread QB, Oregon QBs suck, etc.). It seemed about half the board hated Winston and when he was drafted there were a ton of concerns about his INTs, much less his maturity, even among draft experts. I know I didn't like Bortles despite his measurable talent because he was inaccurate and inconsistent and it was easy to find similar concerns in the media. The media were stunned when Philly gave up the farm to move up and draft Wentz. Absolutely not worth it they said. Tannehill was a very good athlete but little more than that as a QB when he was drafted 8th overall. -------------- Bottom line for me is that what I see in these QBs evaluations against the QBs in recent NFL draft history it indicates there will be at least 3 QBs taken in the 1st Rd, and likely 4. History also says that usually at least one QB from each draft becomes a legitimate starter in the NFL. If Pace thinks he knows who that future starter is then he'll have to draft that player in Rd 1, or sit back and hope he gets lucky in the 2nd Rd like the Raiders did. How many recent drafts have had 4 QBs chosen in Rd 1? http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-t...likely-to-fail/ This is an easy article to write by the way because anyone who is breathing knows the vast majority of NFL QBs fail to become a good starter. I've shown in other threads that history also says your best odds of drafting a starting QB will be among the QBs drafted in Rd1. FWIW Trubisky is still my favorite QB in this draft. If Pace thinks he can be a legit starter, even at the level of Andy Dalton, then I don't care if he takes him #3. If last year's draft was repeated (knowing rookie performance) there is zero chance Dallas takes Elliot over Prescott at #4.

It appears Trubisky is the Browns QB target. The world knows the 49ers want to trade down becaue they put it on every news outlet in the country. http://www.walterfootball.com/nfldraftrumormill Browns might be talking with Jets about a trade so they can grab Trubisky. If true this is clearly where they view the threat level and as far as they need to trade up. Suddenly the 49ers leak that they might like Trubisky if they have to stay put. Last week the Bears were rumored to like Trubisky but it appears they've done extensive work on other top QBs and not much with Trubisky. Is that because they think he'll be gone before they select a QB later in the 1st Rd or 2nd Rd? Or is Pace laying low so his target is available at #3? Kizer: Combine meeting, Private workout, Official Visit, and Local visit Mahomes: Combine meeting, Private workout, Official Visit Peterman: Combine meeting, SR Bowl (of course) Trubisky: combine meeting Kaaya: combine meeting Webb: not listed but I thought we coached him for a day at Sr Bowl?

I think this QB draft class is better than last years and compared to many recent years offers a decent pool to choose from. Minus of course the sure fire QB in an Andrew Luck type. Next year Sam Darnold looks to fill that elite draft spot but behind him I see lots of QBs with question marks no different than this year's group. #1 Goff: spread offense QB, not ready to start and while he can be very accurate he fades a lot under pressure. Plus physically he was pretty skinny. He basically lost his rookie year and the long term outlook is unknown. Trubisky is more accurate, better TD:INT ration (5:1 vs. 3.3:1), better QB rating, and much better on the run (both running and throwing). #2 Wentz: Physical tools but level of competition he played against didn't come close to comparison against any of the top 5 QBs this year. Played well initially then once teams learned the new Eagles offense things got tougher. I still like his long term outlook. #26 Lynch: Physical tools but again poor traits from spread offense and lower level of competition. Started to show some signs of getting it late in the year but remains a work in progress. #51 Hackenburg: I'd take any of the 2017 top 5 QBs ahead of him. (Here's where someone throws out Prescott but this is more about likely draft position of this year's QBs) Mix and match Watson, Trubisky, Mahomes, Webb, and Kizer among any of last year's top 4. I get all the questions regarding each of the QBs, and I have my criticisms and concerns for each as well. QB value in the NFL says 4 of them go in Rd 1. I also think much of the fretting over the concerns for each QB this year is related to the struggles of last year's QBs. 2015: I can go back to all the criticisms of Winston (INTs) and Mariota (spread offense and those QBs never work out in the NFL) and they both went 1/2. Behind them it was Grayson at #75. 2014: Blake Bortles #3 overall, Manziel #22, Bridgewater #32, Carr #36 (the best of the bunch), JimmyG #62 2013: EJ Manuel #16, Geno Smith #39, Mike Glennon #73 (we'll see how that turns out soon enough), Matt Barkley #98 2012: Luck #1, Griffin #2, Tannehill #8 (been a big long term project), Brandon Weeden #22, Osweiller #57

It makes his behavior at the medical tests that much more intriguing.

Not sure if you've been able to watch any of his games but LSU used Adams all over the field. He played NB, CB, SS, FS. His elite traits in the box led to him being used more often around the LOS but he's not Jabril Peppers and can definitely cover WRs or TEs. Is he the elite single high FS that Hooker can be? Probably not but Hooker is a rare talent too. Adams has more than enough skills (speed, agility) along with his study habits and leadership to get everyone else aligned pre-snap to be a very good FS. But at the same time he can fill a hole at the LOS scrimmage and stop a RB cold. Leonard Floyd's versatility gave Fangio flexibility around the LOS. Adams will do the same as a DB and we won't worry as much about matchups. 2 TE sets can be easily matched with Adams and Floyd out there either for run support or pass coverage.

I think I should correct myself because if it's a dream draft we don't trade up for Kizer, we just sit back and let him fall to us at #33. In that case Rd 1 #12 OT Ramczyk Rd 2 #33 QB Kizer #36 CB Kevin King #52 DE Wormley Rd 3 #67 WR Chris Godwin Rd 4 #111 TE George Kittle #117 CB Fabian Moreau (he's still there and we now have our CB duo of the future on the roster) Rd 5 #147 ILB Blair Brown (hat tip Jason) Rd 7 #221 FS David Jones

I'm with Stinger in that my dream draft has Cleveland giving us #12 and both of their 2nd Rd picks to move up and take Trubisky. 1st Rd #12 OT Ramczyk #24 QB Kizer trade #33 with OAK to get one spot ahead of Houston and take our QB. It's a risk but Pace wants two bites of the apple to increase the odds he can find his QB of the future. OAK gets #33 and both of our 4th Rd picks 2nd Rd #36 CB Kevin King (lots of DB options here including Awuzie, Baker) Backup option TE Evan Engram #52 DE Chris Wormley He's not flashy but as Pink Floyd said build the wall. Wormley is versatile enough to double gap and rush the passer but we also have likely better pash rushers being groomed in the wings in Bullard and RRH. 3rd Rd #67 WR Chris Godwin Best hands catcher at the combine, made it look easy. His 4.42 speed fits in well with White, Meredith, Wheaton, and Wright (if he's in shape). Alternate WRs Kupp or Zay Jones 5th Rd #147 TE Jordan Leggett Lazy Leggett sticks and he drops out of the 4th Rd to be snatched up here 7th Rd #221 FS David Jones tall and has the range to handle both sidelines, plus his INTs show he has nose for the ball

I didn't have time to expand upon this but between the top 2 safeties Hooker's potentially elite coverage skills and particularly hard to find. I love Adams but you can find safeties that are closer to his skills than you can find players with close to Hooker's skills. The flip side is that the vast majority of plays in the NFL are within 10 yards of the LOS and that's where Adams wins the day. Yet there is something very enticing about being able to negate Rodgers, or Stafford's deep throws after they scramble. Then when I think the single high safety makes it easier to put another man in the box at the snap, which yields much of the benefit Adams can provide, and it's very tempting to just take the type of player in Hooker that few teams in the NFL will ever have on their roster.

I'm 100% with you here. You can find an expert to put your player where ever you'd like to see him. Want Jamal Adams at #2 overall see Todd McShay. Want Fournette at #2 overall see guys like Casserly and Brandt. Solomon Thomas at #2 overall see CBS Sports. Yet it's like that all the way down through the first round and the disparity gets bigger the further you go into the top 32. Is WR Mike Williams the 13th best player in this draft or the 23rd? Is McCaffery a top 10 pick, top 20, or top 30? You can find the exact same for Dalvin Cook.

Malik Hooker.

If you want a late Rd OLB prospect who has the tools but needs work check out Derek Rivers: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=derek+rivers+high...iai=BrHbygjkVA8 There's a lot of hype you can read about him but I think he'll be there on Day 3.

I'd just put Engram at WR and leave him there. He's horrible at blocking but he puts a lot of stress on a secondary running routes. Anyone who wants to see the Bears replace Alshon Jeffrey only needs to see the first 30sec of this highlight video to know he'll be better.

That's a pretty impressive record, and some good research on your part.