AZ54

Allen slight health question which to me is magnified by the poor showing at the combine where he managed just 21 reps @ 225lbs. Jamal Adams at a mere 214 lbs with arms almost as long as Allen's (1/8" shorter) put up 18 reps. Then the fact he stood on that result during the pro day is surprising, at least to me. Jamal Adams didn't run well at the combine so he comes back at his pro day and runs again. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2696844...ts-and-reaction Most concerning to me are the comments from Alabama's team doctor. ---------------- "Jonathan has really played without symptoms in his shoulders, and it's something that has not affected his performance or function," Cain said. "It doesn't have to be treated during the season. And he's had a couple of great years." ---------------- Sometimes what isn't said matters more. If he doesn't need treatment during the season it sure sounds like he needs treatment every off-season. It's hard to build strength when you can't lift so maybe we're already seeing the effects of that "treatment". There is nothing about the full-time nature of the NFL offseason and its 16 game regular season, playoffs, along with playing against bigger, stronger, and quicker players, that will make this easier for Allen to endure as he gets older. Allen's strength is his base and his first-step quickness. Unfortunately he doesn't have enough of that quickness and speed to live on the edge as a pass rusher in the NFL as Solomon Thomas does. If he did, the shoulders might be less of a concern simply because he could win some downs on speed alone. Making a living in the trenches might require him to be on a snap count somewhat early in his career. If that happens it isn't all bad because most teams rotate DTs quite a bit anyway. He'd make our defense better on day 1 and he might have a great rookie season. If that happens someone will point out what we missed but I think his ture value plays out 4 years down the road. Your top 3 pick needs to be a player you absolutely expect to sign to a massive 2nd contract.

FWIW Mayock has him listed as the 5th best TE in this class. While most of the pundits see him as 4th/5th Rd Mayock's got him as a 3rd/4th Rd prospect. OTOH Mayock has Everett ahead of him and I prefer Kittle over Everett. I don't like Everett that much regardless.

He ran a 4.52 forty at the combine and it shows on the field where he is quick to get open and can threaten defenses deep down field. He is an aggressive inline blocker, not the strongest and often gets himself overextended. That's correctable and at least his heart is in it. I think there should be more talk about drafting him and I think he'd be a good fit in the role Miller plays in our offense. https://www.landof10.com/iowa/iowa-tight-en...inating-blocker

I see no magic bullet making this a playoff caliber team. Take BPA and if that ends up all defense so be it. If it ends up all offense so be it. It won't be the worst draft if we trade back a bit and end up with a WR (Davis), QB (Kizer), OT (Garcia), TE (Leggett), WR ((Westbrook/Switzer), RB (Hill), OT (Ugokwe). We'd have to trade back to fit the value to some of those picks but whatever. Figure the trade back nets one more 2nd Rd pick and we grab a CB (Awuzie). Drafting two WRs might mean Kendall Wright goes back into FA. That's not necessarily how I want the draft to go but it's quite possible. Glennon might be very happy throwing to White/Davis/Meredith/Wheaton/Switzer, with TEs Leggett/Miller.

All I can find on their site are the pre-combine rankings.

No worries on the link I'm familiar with Bearswire. I agree with most of his assessment but I prefer to take the higher ceiling on the edge player without the health risk we'd incur with Allen. I think the floor for both players is pretty similar although Allen is more prepared to step in day 1, so he will have the better rookie season. OTOH, as they said, Thomas faced double and sometimes triple teams on almost every down. Allen was far from the sole focus of the Oline and also benefitted from an outstanding secondary providing coverage downfield. Do I think Allen is a 10yr Pro Bowl player as he does? Not at all, because I don't see a guy who can beat double teams at the NFL level. He has neither the size/strength nor the quickness needed for that. Do I see Thomas as a 10yr Pro Bowl player? No but while he also does not have the size/strength beat a double team, he does have the quickness to do so at times. So both offer potential for a few Pro Bowl seasons, Thomas perhaps a couple more if he hits his upside. I think their run defense will be similar in performance, albeit from different spots on the Dline, but Thomas offers more pass rush potential.

I gave you one link to a former Ravens scout. Here's another link to a former scouts opinion and he has Allen behind Garrett, Thomas, and Barnett: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000079...-by-position-20 I'm entirely open to other sources if you provide them. Of course I'm biased by my own opinion of what I saw Allen do in the CFB playoffs, where he didn't look like a guy who will dominate NFL Olines.

I think there is a lot more debate about Allen's value after the combine where he showed he just doesn't have any special physical traits. Most boards have dropped him back a bit to between 5 and 10. He's still a very good football player and absolutely is an upgrade for our roster. With the injury concerns it is safe to think the Bears have him graded down a bit as well. Just a couple examples: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2700859...-big-board-more http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000079...17-nfl-draft-30 That leaves a two-way race between Thomas and Adams with Hooker on the outside. Watch for the Bears to schedule a visit with Hooker closer to the draft to check on his health. Fournette might be the wild card we were hoping for and if teams are willing to trade up for him that bodes well for us. Even if they trade with SF then it leaves us choosing among Thomas and Adams. If we drop back to 6-10 then almost every position is a possibility: CB Lattimore, DE Allen, ILB Foster, QB Trubisky, FS Hooker, TE Howard, WR Corey Davis, WR Mike Williams. End up closer to the middle of the 1st Rd and you can OT to that list.

I'd love to take him in the 4th but if we were to trade back to mid-3rd or a bit later I would be ok taking Sidney Jones in the 3rd. Of course trading back in the 2nd Rd should yield the same pick in the latter part of the 3rd Rd. The early 3rd Rd pick is too soon IMO and should yield a player who can contribute this year.

2nd Rd pick out the door.

I don't see an early QB run but I think there could be a few QBs taken between 10-20. That depends on any combination of trade scenarios. If Bears trade back to mid-1st then they might then go QB, I don't see us taking a QB #3 overall. Cleveland is already sitting there at #12. Houston could have a strong preference for one QB and trade up. Arizona is in there. Washington has questions surrounding Cousins long term. New Orleans sitting at #11? Teams will definitely view Cleveland as going QB at #12. If they really want one of the QBs then they may feel its best to play defense and trade up into the top 10 to get their guy. I'm not sure they'd want to go all the way up to #3 overall. What could make things interesting is that yesterday Charley Casserly said that Fournette is the 1A talent in this draft right behind Garrett. Casserly is very well connected around the league and he's a very good talent evaluator. He thinks Fournette is likely to go to Jax at #4 and teams may want to trade up ahead of them to take him. There is no way Cleveland is not taking Garrett #1. That means teams can either trade up with SF or Chi. If he's correct #3 might not be a bad spot to be in. Who might move up for Fournette? Carolina from #8, and that would be a deadly pairing with Cam's ability to run. Titans from #5; perfect compliment to an improving young QB and they have extra picks. Jets at #6 overall who seem destined for QB purgatory and might want to establish a solid running game. Chargers at #7 not sure. I"m not sure if there's at team after #10 that would want to make that big of a move for a RB. None are a big drop back for the Bears which is very attractive IMO. At #8 taking Trubisky looks a lot better but we might also have Hooker still available, Allen who I think will fall a bit, or reach a bit for Ramczyk.

I've been on board that OLB/LDE is a need for us. If he checks out medically he seems like a good option for Rd 2.

I agree. I've watched some game tape on him and he just doesn't stand out above the next 5-7 CBs that much. Add in the injury risk and any gap closes. Like Killa says...there still is some debate on who the top CB is.

I agree there but for that impact we have to find one that drops to us in Rd 2. Even in Rd 3 someone like Garcia is a project who will not help much in his rookie season. I like Bolles too and if either he or Ramczyk are there in Rd 2 we should take them.

I'm just curious why there is no discussion, or someone promoting Lattimore with the 3rd pick? He's clearly the top rated CB in this draft with a grade nearly as high as the top two safeties. Traditionally CB has higher value than Safety so it seems some among us would be on the soap box for him. Is it because of his hamstring injury history? Depth at the position in the draft? Or because we signed two FA CB so the need is a bit less? Most here agree with the idea of taking a CB in Rd 2. Is Lattimore just not good enough to warrant the 3rd overall pick? If we trade back, at what point does he enter the discussion considering favorites here are largely Allen, Thomas, Adams, or Hooker? If any of those are still on the board are they the pick or when does Lattimore enter the discussion? 6th overall? 10th?

Another Bears viewing option closer to home. No complaints here. $2B for a stadium?

I'd be very happy with this draft. Now a confession: After a couple months hyping him as a solid late Rd prospect I watched Jarron Jones run a 5.4 forty and look stiff as a board. I'm doubting my judgment. Biggest concern is that he's rumored to be lazy and it seems to me the poor forty time backs that up. If you can't spend a few months getting ready for the best job interview of your life then what will you get ready for?

I understand where you are coming from but I disagree on the Hall of Fame because IMO you can never predict that. Pro Bowls is a better expectation. Adams clearly has several years of Pro Bowl potential in him and that's what you want out of this pick. Plus it's a big need for our roster especially with his leadership skills. Much is made out of not taking safeties early but then again this league is a passing league now and someone with Adams size and ability to cover move TEs adds a lot of value. Beyond that he's excellent in the box area and he's talented enough to play some CB or FS. IMO he's the kind of player who can set the tone for the entire defense.

Logic says yes, it's a reasonable move, but I'm still struggling with it and the whiskey bottle is getting light.

I have accepted the fact that after this draft there will still be one glaring need on our roster, probably two. Unless we go there early (as in 2nd Rd) OT seems the most likely place we fall short. There just isn't much depth in this years rookie class and with all the needs we have on this roster we need to be in BPA mode well into day 3. In Rd 4 it is quite likely we can draft a TE, CB, and maybe a WR (like Switzer) with the potential to be a legit starter in the NFL. Rd 4 and beyond has OT prospects with ceilings that are most likely as a career backup. I'd be surprised if anyone who has watched Julien Davenport's film didn't come away thinking they had watched some clips of Leno or Massie in pass protection. Plus, when we have drafts like this where there is a shortage of talent at a very key position then NFL teams usually reach earlier for the best prospects. Garrett Bolles may have a 2nd Rd grade but I highly doubt he's available after day 1. That reaching may carry into 3rd Rd prospects such as Garcia being taken in the late 2nd Rd. Reality is you can reach on that OT early and still find a decent CB, WR, TE, DL afterward. Doing the reverse won't pan out so well. If we haven't drafted an OT in the top 3 Rds, then we will be better off picking up someone's veteran OT castoff rather than depending on these rookies. Pick up the pieces next year. Putting the right rookie TE out there will help our OTs (and offense) far more than any of the late Rd OTs.

Our defense was pretty good for most of last year. I'm not too worried about that as long as we make a couple good additions via the draft. If we do that we should finally start seeing legitimate depth where we can overcome a few injuries. Offense is a different story mainly because of the QB question. We know White was improving week to week before the broken leg so we can reasonably expect that process will continue this season. This time around White's broken leg was caused by a LB twisting it and sitting on it. Miller's broken foot was solely because JPP stepped on it while he was blocking him. Those injuries have their own recovery concerns but they are different from injuries like Trevathan's or Garza's where nobody was touching them when they went down, or Jeffrey's non-stop hamstring/calf issues. Regardless, the bottom line on offense is that nobody has a clue how Glennon will turn out.

I'm surprised the Packers would spend $3mil for a backup run stuffer. The Bears OTOH would seem more likely to have paid that price. Whatever value Pace sets for a player he isn't going to move too far off that mark just to get him to sign. For a man leading a 3-13 team there is no desperation in his moves.

This sucks. http://www.chicagobears.com/news/article-1...c4-a8bc949aa82f

Absolutely but this is always a great discussion thread. I have no issue dumping a 5th Rd RB for a 5th Rd DE. Jarron Jones who has 1st Rd athletic talent and high 1st Rd bust potential could easily be there in the 5th for us. That's not a bad spot to take a chance on him. You could just as easily take a DE in the 4th Rd and TE in the 5th. I just don't see a point where Best Available fits Boulware in the 5th Rd when there will be better talent at either of these three positions still on the board: RB, TE, DE. I realize I'm in the minority on RB here but there was too big of a dropoff when either Carey (3.9ypc but little value on special teams and his running style often results in injury) or Langford (just 3.2ypc in 2016) were on the field last year. I don't want to be in that spot again and then we end up wearing out a very valuable player in Howard with too many carries. I want some insurance against having the need to run Howard into the ground just so we can get into the playoffs, or if by some miracle we get there, I want Howard fully ready to go. Again, we have questions at WR and QB so we need to ensure we have a consistently successful running game every week.

Except SF may take Thomas. They have issues they have to sort out among the two former 1st Rd picks: Where do they play in a 4-3? If they both get moved outside to DE then Allen is by far the better fit for their need. Perhaps the bigger question is how much their GM John Lynch values having an elite safety to organize the back end of the defense and could they take Adams?