AZ54

The problem for us is that we need to win now and there will be starting quality players available with our 3rd Rd pick, that includes at CB or S. If we were more settled on our roster depth then I'd be all for it.

On that I agree but if the players grade equally based on game film, then I'm going to go with the player who is the better athlete. If production doesn't match the athlete then definitely go with the player who produced on the field.

Perhaps you skipped the other post where his college stats were listed. Combine results are only used to validate what you see in game film. Is the guy as fast/strong/quick as he appears in the games or was his competition making him look good?

I think Pace evaluated the top QBs in the draft against the Glennon's tape in college. In that lens Glennon fits right in the mix with the top four. Of course he has some tape of Glennon in the pro's to evaluate so that's a big evaluation step ahead of the draft class (good or bad). After all that he decided this was his man and I think that means none of the QBs in the draft grade out as worthy of the #3 pick. Doesn't mean he won't take one of them in Rd 2.

If this were Emery or JA I'd say that's the plan. Pace I think is more committed to best available and positioning himself such that he is not pressured into filling a need during the draft. That's not to say he ignores needs entirely. Amukamara is on a 1yr deal so IMO that does not preclude us from taking a CB. Cooper did get #2 money so I agree they think he can be a starter. I still say OLB opposite of Floyd is a need with McPhee's injury still a concern, Houston, Willie Young not being the best fit and aging, then it's Acho, Christian Jones, and RRH. I like the potential of RRH and I'd like to see McPhee back as our starter but it seems he'll be on limited snaps from here on out in his career. If the 49ers are moving both Buckner and Armstead out to 4-3 DE then they could very well take Allen to play inside.

According to Overthecap.com we have $25.8mil left plus we haven't yet made any moves to cut Royal or Houston. If they want to there's another ~$10mil available. Where to from here? I'd still like to do an extension with Hicks. There is still this rumor out there: www.walterfootball.com Malcolm Butler wants out of New England. - Mike Giardi, CSN New England Butler has a lot to be frustrated about, including all of the trade rumors, as well as New England's decision to pay Stephon Gilmore a ton of money when Butler out-performed Gilmore by a wide margin in 2016. Butler could be dealt in short order. -Walter

Combine results: http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/jonath...llen?id=2557844 Allen 6'3" 286lbs Arms: 33.6 40yd: 5.00 Bench: 21 reps Vertical: 30in Broad Jump: 108in 3-cone: 7.49s 20yd shuttle: 4.5s Thomas 6'3" 273lbs 33" 40yd: 4.69s Bench: 30 reps (top performer) Vertical: 35in Broad Jump: 126in (top performer) 3-cone: 6.95s (top performer) 20yd shuttle: 4.28s (top performer) Allen has more size but he's not stronger in the upper body. In fact his 21 reps was 35th among Dline. Based on tape I'd say Allen is definitely stronger in the lower body than Thomas as he anchors better against OGs. Thomas has a clear advantage in explosiveness and agility. In fact I think his 3-cone time is faster than Floyd's. The difference here shows up on tape where Allen rarely get around the edge for a sack. Most of the highlights I see of Allen getting sack on the edge is when the QB is flushed out of the pocket toward his side. Thomas can get around the edge against OTs. If you want interior run D with some inside pass rush mixed in Allen is your guy. If you want more pass rush off the left side and good run defense on the outside (i.e. set the edge), as well as some spot work inside at 3-tech Thomas is your guy. My preference is help at OLB/LDE. Allen is a year older as well so, while there is a bit of projection, with one more year of work where will Thomas be? FWIW For those who like to compare Justin Smith combine results: 6'4" 267lbs 40yd: 4.64 Bench: 26 Vertical: 34 Broad: 117 http://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedat...s=&college=

On Wheaton: I don't know the numbers I'd say it's very rare for any player in the NFL to go 5 years without missing significant time in one season. Is Kyle Long injury prone? I wasn't sure on Wright but yes he's had a couple seasons where he was banged up. That may also be related to his work ethic issues like Jeffrey's situation. I'm less optimistic Wright will be a big contributor than others are but if he's our 5th WR this year versus Marquis Wilson last year I think that's an upgrade. Nothing wrong if Meredith becomes a solid #2, that's tremendous value for a UDFA. He showed enough last that at this point we can at least feel confident with him as our #3 WR. I think he and Wheaton can do well working one side of the field as both can work inside from the slot or outside. ------ Why do you think Patterson will help when he's never been that successful as a WR? Without Wright in the mix I could see us going that route. Then again, Patterson wants guarantees he'll play as a WR but with Fox and Pace you have to compete and best players get on the field. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000077...lents-elsewhere "Of course, man. Two years I spent damn near on the sideline. That's never a good feeling for any player. No player wants to go through that," he said. "I need to know if I'm going to play or not. If not, I'll take my talents elsewhere."

When you consider that last year's roster competition included: 1) Alshon Jeffrey often injured 2) Kevin White returning from surgery 3) Eddie Royal often injured 4) Marc Mariani often unemployed 5) Josh Bellamy often on practice squad 6) Cam Meredith former college QB learning a new position 7) Marquess Wilson returning from IR to now. 1) Kevin White returning from surgery 2) Cam Meredith played two full seasons with 120yds, and 888yds 3) Markus Wheaton who has played at least three full seasons, two with 644yds, and 749yds 4) Kendall Wright who has produced far more than Wilson but has tailed off lately. Seems there are questions on his work ethic. 5) Rueben Randle who has had three seasons with 611, 938, and 797 yds 6) Bellamy 7) Braverman Remove Kevin White from the discussion because in both years he's the same question mark. In 2016 our bottom 5 WR competing for a roster spot were almost completely unproven or always injured (Royal) In 2017 we are far better situated with proven experience in slots 2-5 than last year. There is a bigger question mark at the top #1 position without Jeffrey. He was a question mark himself most weeks. We don't yet know who among this group will step up but with more players who have played well in the past the odds of success are far better from the 2017 roster. Add a high draft pick to the group and we should definitely be able to field 3 good WRs, if not 4 among this group.

If we drop back to #12 for me that pick is probably WR Corey Davis or possibly OT Ramczyk.

I no longer think we'll make a trade up from our 2nd Rd pick into the 1st Rd for a QB. Pace is pretty committed to Glennon as the starter. If any of the top 3 listed are there in the 2nd Rd then I think you are right, we might take one.

But it's no problem for them to pay Dwayne Allen $5mil/yr? With all their cap space if they wanted him around they'd have kept him around. This is the team that once had two of the top TE contracts in the NFL on its roster.

In terms of FA we added the analysis is good.

2nd Rd is too high for me in this draft. With an early 2nd Rd pick we should just draft a CB rather than lose the pick and the cap space on Butler. 3rd Rd I'd be interested. If I can give them Fuller and a 4th Rd pick I'd be very happy, but that's wishful thinking. It's intriguing because if we draft either of Adams/Hooker in Rd 1 and add Butler to the pieces we just added in FA I think we have a very good secondary.

IMO Barnett isn't nearly as agile as either Thomas or Allen, nor do I think he can handle working inside as a 3-tech. He's a good player but I don't think he'll produce pressure in the NFL as well as he did in college.

Aren't you usually pretty adamant about Pace avoiding injury risk on early draft picks? Doesn't the 2 or 3 shoulder surgeries Allen has had and arthritis in both shoulders concern you? By the way I think the big riser in this draft is Obi Melifonwu. He's gone from 4th Rd prospect to now after the combine being talked about as a 2nd Rd pick.

Allen 69 tackles, 33 solo, 10.5 from 15 games Thomas 61 tackles, 40 solo, 8 sacks from 13 games I can't answer as to who is better looking

I like what Pace has done improving our depth at TE, CB, WR, and S. We didn't get any studs as hoped for at CB/S he's doing a good job adding talent at what I'll call the middle of the roster. Two years ago and last year the FAs we were signing we're mostly to become starters to fill huge gaps. We also have what appears to be a competent backup OT. We need to add a FA piece to the DL rotation to help with backup NT or DE. Going into the draft whatever direction he chooses to go in the first two rounds those positions are should become a strength on our roster. Rd 1: Adams or Hooker to the safety group and with Demps on board last years starters both become backups. Solomon Thomas makes the Dline a force on both run D and pass rush. Allen too. CB Lattimore added with Amukamara, Cooper, Porter and NBs Callahan and LeBlanc. We still have Banks/Fuller competing for spots. trade down to middle of the 1st gives options of TE Howard, WRs Williams, Davis, or OT Ramczyk. Rd 2: WR Zay Jones, Godwin (he looked outstanding at combine), Kupp, Shuster CB: Jackson, White, Tabor, King, Conley S: Obi, Baker QB: whoever falls into the 2nd Rd maybe Kizer or Mahomes? If we trade down in the first we're picking two of the above. I like the options we'll have.

Since the combine Solomon Thomas has quietly risen past Allen on many draft boards (Draftek, Bleacherreport, NFLnetwork, and CBS who has had him there for some time. He needs to be squarely in our sights on draft day. Right now he's my preferred pick at #3 if he's still there. I think our Dline becomes one of the best in the NFL and he's versatile enough to handle snaps at OLB, 4-3 DE, or 3-tech. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000079...-2017-nfl-draft

Royal is a cut but I'd like to keep Miller if he's healthy.

Here's Cooper's pick six off a tipped pass on a great play by his teammate and him being in the right spot. I like that we signed him but I'm not ready to anoint him as a starter. The fact he looks so good is because we're comparing him to what we had to watch last year. Just remember there's a guy named Peterson on the other side of the Cardinals defense doing the heavy lifting on #1 WRs, plus a safety in Jefferson patrolling the backfield. Good week... http://www.azcardinals.com/news-and-events...70-adcfe5af200d Bad week...http://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2016/10/2/13142622/winners-losers-from-the-tough-division-loss "Marcus Cooper- Now, pro have tough games. I'm not calling for Williams or Bethel to take Cooper's spot, but he was targeted today, as both Rams TDs went against him." I have to see the contract details but upfront I like the signing. This is the kind of move Pace is good at. He overpays young guys who have shown they might be able to step into a starting role. Throw enough of these darts and we'll hit on quite a few. We miss on some too. Overall I still feel he's better depth than either of Bausby, Glenn, McManis, and probably Fuller (if he decides to play). He just might get to Porter's level of play (when Porter is healthy) this season. Maybe down the road he becomes even better. Cooper's highlights. He looks pretty good. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rr5NA3XM-Eg Amukamara highlights. He looks pretty good too.

I hadn't seen this posted anywhere but there is still potential to bring in a good CB. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/...pats-this-year/ Yesterday Pace said he's had some trade talks among all the other negotiations but that can be in any number of directions given our roster issues. If Butler is available this could be an intriguing option for us. Given the fact we also have to pay him a big contract the highest I'd go might be a 3rd Rd pick. I want to hold onto our 1st and 2nd Rd picks. I don't really see the Patriots with any incentive to trade him other than hoping someone throws a 1st Rd pick at them. Then again they signed Gilmore to a massive deal so are they willing to pay two CBs $12-14mil/yr in 2018?

You are correct but any decent contract signed early in FA is always paying a premium for that player. Everyone we targeted got a premium deal: the OT in Detroit, Gilmore and 1yr wonder Bouye both hit it huge. Hoyer! Cornelius Washington, a fringe player on our roster, just got $3-4mil/yr from Detroit. While Glennon's deal might seem like a huge contract, for the QB position it slots him in around where he should be among QBs, 23rd, plus the early signing premium. I wanted one premium deal for a CB but when they both went off the charts I'm ok we backed off, especially considering the CB Talent in this draft. Other than that I'm happy to be playing in Pace's more familiar 2nd tier of FA as well as taking some chances on young up and coming players like Sims. If we look down the road a bit we can already see competition building for roster spots where we might see some familiar names who contributed last year get cut possibly at CB depending on the draft. We have Banks, Fuller, possibly Cooper, and McManis fighting for a spot. At S if we sign Darius Butler does HJQ make the 53?

Pleasantly surprised...if people have the patience to allow him to learn the new offense and his WRs. We will win early in the season on the backs of our running game and defense.

If Patterson is not much more than a returner then he'll only get paid as a KR/PR and not average WR money $6-7mil. If that's all he's going to get paid it'll take him a little bit to lower his contract expectations. At this point in time with a lot of big money deals still being announced any of us would also play the waiting game. He may not sign a deal for another week or two.