AZ54

I viewed Ogletree as our SLB starter this season, giving him a year to learn our defense, the NFL game, and bulk up a bit for him to take over as our MLB next season. The Bears could sign DJ Williams to a new deal next year if he's plays well and behaves and put him at SLB.

Hard to believe anyone even considered taking Warford at 22. This was definitely not a typical draft for OG.

First time I ever setup a poll so if this doesn't work right I apologize. I will leave this up for a couple days to collect the votes. If there is not a clear winner (i.e. one player with 50% of the vote) I'll post a final poll with only the top two or three vote getters. From that the winner will be our draft choice. Pixote will be the honorary GM for this. He gets to vote as well but if we have a tie at the end, as GM he will make the final decision on who we draft. On draft day I'd have taken Alec Ogletree and that is where my vote is.

We've been through this many times before. Occasional use of marijuana does not have long term effects. Use it daily and it's a proven medical fact it has side effects that affect judgment and the crystalline structures embedded in the brain tissues can be seen in a scan of the brain. Whether or not half the league uses it, or 90% of the NBA uses it, or any other justification one chooses to use, does not make the people doing so smarter or better players. That's what we're talking about here at the original post calling him a moron. When a players job is on the line and he was not doing all he could have done to improve it's relevant. This is how the example of Lomas Brown played the game: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.thenewsstar.com/usatoday/article/1787107 Ryen Russillo set up Brown by saying he didn't call out his quarterbacks much. But Brown did say there was something he'd do to send a message. "Just let the guy hit him. Just let the D-lineman get a shot on him," Brown said. "I'd make it look good. I had some actor in me." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No matter how bad Scott Mitchell was I would never want that jackass Lomas Brown, or anyone like him, blocking for my team. His issue was really with the head coach who was playing Mitchell over Kreig. He should have had the balls to run over the head coach himself.

A little bit off topic for this but : Has any heard rumors if Dallas traded down with SF with intentions of taking Kyle Long? That scenario makes a lot of sense given their needs, Long's abilities and draft rankings from the pundits, and who the Cowboys ended up drafting with the 31st pick. I'll say that's a typical Jerry Angelo deal there...trade back expecting your guy will be there and then someone grabs him ahead of you then reach a full round early to get some other player just to fill that need. Given what Howie Long said about him going before the 29th pick we can't assume he would have been there for the Cowboys either. I'm really just wondering if perhaps Emery is more in tune with what other teams are going to do than what we saw in the past under Angelo.

Webb has a job solely because of his potential. That's about it. Webb trying to clean up his act is a good thing. We only know his words not his actions. Going to church means nothing to me, especially his choice of one, however it is a valid indication that he is taking different actions in his life. Then again I've known many people who have used going to church as cover to making themselves appear to be better people. Which is why I first stated it means nothing to me. Knowing Webb has had his addictions, or perhaps it's better to say he has abused marijuana and alcohol, fits in well with his performance problems on the field and his attitude off it. An attitude he has been very open to publicizing on his own. What we'll probably never know is if there were signs of this on the field or in practices. It's not hard to know when someone comes to work hungover. Missed blocking assignments, lack of study or focus in meeting rooms, etc. Maybe we now have some insight into why Cutler snapped at him in the Packer game? If I kept getting run over because a guy couldn't get his head on straight enough to do his job at a basic level I'd be pissed off too. I'm going to add more to this: Tice was the head coach during the love boat saga. He always took a meat-headed approach to things like this in Minnesota, or perhaps a frat-boy acceptance of "boys will be boys" fits better. Based on his history there is reason to think Tice ignored signs of these problems with Webb instead of confronting him as he should have done.

It is simply because we are the Bears and we don't know Oline. If Belichik, or even New Orleans where they know (knew) how to grow Pro Bowl talent, had taken him this early it would be lauded as a team, one that knows what it is doing of course, targetting the player they wanted and going after him regardless. Recall the Colts trading up to reach for Dwight Freeney..... much to our dismay. They were already a playoff team so they were a "smart team" grabbing the missing piece. I don't worry about analysts because I believe exactly what someone wrote....they rank these guys and then try to find a home for them in the range they have them ranked. But it is their ranking not the teams' rankings. Long was no more reach than half the other taken except the others were ranked their by the pundits. Or the pundits moved them up to that ranking based on the rumors they heard around the league about where they'd go (best example Lane Johnson). Which means they don't stick to their own evaluations either. I like this board in part because I like the evaluations from the fans. We're not all experts but we know football. Now it's time to setup our poll and decide who the board would have chosen in the draft. I need someone who knows how to setup a poll to assist. Right now I need to get some sleep.

Consider what our new coaches have told us, sometimes in very few words: No committment to Urlacher, he got offered a market value deal and he's gone. No committment to Webb, he's kicked to the RT position and Bushrod brought in. No committment to Carimi, all sorts of speculation he'll compete with Webb for RT or backup OT job. Then coach comes out before draft and says he's a guard. People still think it's a smoke screen before the draft to hide our intentions of taking an OG. Then they draft an OG in Rd 1 and a decent OT prospect in Rd 5. No committment to Lance Louis, our best lineman from last season, he gets what appears to be a modest or low offer and takes off for warmer climate. No committment to Cutler and...still pending Hester will be our returner. Then he goes out and doesn't do anything at all with the offense while they practice 300 different plays. Skipping the entire initial installation of a brand new offense for a guy who has never mastered the WR role makes no sense if they feel he's still going to play a key role as our 3rd WR. I don't see it and I have no reason to believe these coaches are lying about Hester's role. I have every reason to think every player on the roster knows they have to earn their job this fall. I think that includes Hester.

I know the intent of this is likely players but I believe the biggest offseason acquisition is Aaron Kromer. If we had to look around the league and could only get one guy who could fix our oline who would we have chosen? From a player perspective it is Martellus Bennett. He can block that's a given. Can he run routes and catch? He's had one good year doing so and I believe that continues. We finally have a TE that can do both and this finally gives our offense true play calling flexibility without having to change personnel. It's been a long time since we've had that.

Our LG was horrible last year but let's be clear on Webb...he cannot handle stunts and delayed rushes. He has other deficiencies too and is very susceptible to double moves especially outside rushers who then come back inside. Whatever he deems as his first assignment he goes after it. Dom Capers knows this and abused him left and right last season. You watch highlights of Long and he already gets this, in fact I'd say he's very good at keeping his awareness of the pass rushers all around him despite his limited experience. I suspect, but haven't seen enough of him yet, that Bushrod handles these things far better than Webb even if Bushrod doesn't always have the athleticism to get out wide enough to make the play as well as the elite LT can. That's the whole issue with our oline last year. Nobody knew who on a given play was going to completely whiff on a block. Cutler could have 1 sec to throw or he could have 3 sec to throw but he never knew. If we can stop letting one guy go completely free at the QB then life gets much better overall for the passing game. When speaking of continuity this is the continuity I want to see.

I totally agree with the other risky picks in the top half of the draft. I was very happy when the Lions to Ansah. He could develop but a mere 4.5 sacks in college is not worrisome to me but hey Kiper loves it. Likewise I was happy when the Vikings took Patterson.... a developmental prospect at WR when they needed a good consistent player at the position now. Outside our division....Lane Johnson skyrocketing all the way to top 5 was amazing as three months ago everyone figured he'd there for our pick. This was a draft with no high end blue chip players so teams went with athletic developmental guys early hoping to strike gold. Many will be wrong. Of those I'd say Lane Johnson is one of the safest risks.

You either have the instincts and desire to hit people like that or you don't. It's not something you coach IMO. I prefer having a guy who can and will hit like that and then having to coach him to be a little more cautious than the player who won't tackle like that head on. That's what it takes to prevent the first down on 3rd/4th and short, or TD at the goal line. Show that clip to Aaron Rodgers, Colin Kaepernick, Russell Wilson etc. and they will remember to look around when they try to run, that means take their eyes off the receivers, especially with that kind of closing speed. In the Seattle game it was clear Wilson wasn't worried about Urlacher catching him.

1) Give McCown a little credit for his leadership as his GM has done: http://www.chicagobears.com/news/chalk-tal...d5-70b4159de8fa Emery praised McCown Tuesday, saying: "The thing that I've gained an appreciation for him is how deep his influence is in this building of helping other people get where they want to go. He's one of those guys. He's a glue guy. Tebow has had supporters in the locker room but he has also had equally as many detractors. See the Jets comments when he arrived a year ago. The media circus may not be entirely his fault but the fact remains it impacts other players in the locker room who do not like constant questions about Tebow. 2) Every year Tebow has worked with a QB guru to fix his mechanics and improve his accuracy. That includes starting all the way back to the spring after he was done playing college football and was getting ready for the draft including our own Marc Trestman. Trestman already knows how well he responded to his coaching and what he's capable of. 3) At this point, 3 years into his regimen to improve, Steve Young says he's still at least a couple seasons away from being serviceable as a QB but that he could improve if given the right environment. Given all the facts in his career there is no reason to think he is a capable #2 QB. There is only reason to think he might one day become one. I prefer to go after someone like a Nick Foles, whom the Eagles want to get rid of before embarking on a what everyone admits, even his proponents, must be a multi-year journey for him to become a #2. I wouldn't give up a 3rd pick for Foles though.

I agree with the this: If he earns a starting job in week 1 then it was not a reach. We have enough reasonable competition at the OG spot, albeit not strong competition among Carimi, Slauson, and Britton, for him to have to earn a starting role.

Not a cheap shot at all I just remember you were the most vocal supporter for Te'o. But after the combine you did state you felt 20 was too early for him. I've never setup a poll but if I get time I'll play around with that later tonight.

Tebow has already had several teams ask him if he'd be interested in playing TE. For the moment he has said no. The day he says yes then I'm interested.

I can't understand Long rated a D for our pick. He was going late first or more likely early second round. I'm not an Oline expert so I at best I watched some highlights of Cooper and Warmack before the draft. After we signed Long I watched some highlights and then I watched his highlight of the entire USC game. I figured he looks decent and is moving his man around pretty good for the most part even if he doesn't always look as if he knows what he's doing. Then I read his bio and realized that USC game was the first he had ever played OG. Prior to that he had been half a season at OT in Oregon's offense (missed all of their spring training) and one full season at JUCO as an OT. That's one hell of a quick learning curve to play like that against USC IMO. I'm not saying he looked like Warmack in that game but he didn't look clueless either and handled his responsibilities. Then his father gets him a week with Tony Wise and he goes to the Senior Bowl and by game day he stands out among all the Oline players there (according to Emery). So we see a guy that unquestionably has all the athletic skills you want in an offensive lineman and has excellent strength (see any scouting report) but have to add in how quickly he is learning to play at a high level. We may have reached a bit but not by more than 15-20 picks. And as far as Walterfootball's credibility with draft grades here's what he said in 2007: http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2007GRADE.php Grade given on 5/1/07: A- Good Moves: Fred Cimino from Endless Banter loved the Greg Olsen pick, so I guess it was a good one. The Bears have needed a premier tight end for years, and they finally got one. Garrett Wolfe should be a nice backup for Cedric Benson. I also liked the additions of linebacker Michael Okwo, guard Josh Beekman and safety Kevin Payne. Beekman, a second-round prospect, was a steal in the fourth. He'll take over for Ruben Brown whenever he retires. Bad Moves: Not that Dan Bazuin is a bad player, but I don't see the need for a defensive end in the second round. Instant 2007 Starters: TE Greg Olsen. Potential 2007 Starters: OLB Michael Okwo, G Josh Beekman. Other Picks: DE Dan Bazuin, RB Garrett Wolfe, S Kevin Payne, CB Corey Graham, CB Trumaine McBride, OT Aaron Brant.

I agree there is just too much information the GMs and other league insiders have that we will never know (or at least not until someone wants us to know it). Just in the medical information alone they are so far ahead of what we can ever know...all knee injuries are not alike. Gabe Carimi can explain that one. Add in that we can only see games, or game films, or for the vast majority some highlights. Our scouts attend practices. They also talk to college coaches and when possible friends or family of the players they are interested in. http://www.chicagobears.com/multimedia/vid...e8-c07e8d1c7fe0 We also don't know how players like Carimi are doing with their health. We know what we had in him last year and it wasn't good. Is he gaining strength in the bad knee or is it still bothering him? Is it going to be a chronic problem he'll always have to deal with? After this draft I think it's safe to say the new coaches do not have confidence in Carimi returning to form. I still want to complete our own Bearstalk draft. I started another thread designed to select the players we should put on the poll. I've only had input from a couple people so far but would welcome much more. Remember it's not a thread asking who you would pick, it is asking who should be the top 5-7 players on our board. From there we'll put together a poll among those players and choose our first round pick. Then we'll do each subsequent round. This will not be what one individual would choose rather it represent us as a team's coming to a consensus on who to pick in each round. We'll have input from our scouts (Adam, SCS, and many others) Oline coaches (Jason, Mongo), and Pixote will be our GM in case there is a need to break a tie.

Fair enough but I still think Patterson was over-rated by the so-called draft gurus based on his raw athletic ability. Then when you listen to them on their final analysis (talking ESPN) they are all wondering if Patterson can develop into a good pro WR. When Todd McShay says he disappears for 30 or 40 plays that's a bit of a concern for a first round pick...one he had rated there. Regarding the Vikings draft we have to keep in mind they essentially gave up picking a good MLB prospect and good Wr prospect to get Patterson.

Just list which players you want us to include in the first round draft pick poll. Right now it seems we will have (and I'll add a couple from my original wish list): Sharrif Floyd (DT), Kyle Long (OG), Tyler Eifert (TE), Desmond Trufant (CB), Xavier Rhodes (CB), Alec Ogletree (LB), Cordarrelle Patterson (WR), Sylvester Williams (DT) That's 8 players just based on who was chosen after us in Rd 1 excluding Travis Frederick (because nobody takes a C in Rd 1) and Matt Elam with FS not that high of a need for us. I'll assume, with the exception of Bowlingtwig, we're all in agreement not to include Te'o in the final poll. With Sharrif Floyd available there is likely little consideration for Williams IMO so he does not need to be in the poll. I say we do this in two steps....setup a poll with the above 7 players (removing Syl Williams) and then whoever the top 3 are then we do a final vote among those 3 and the the winner the second poll is our official Bearstalk first round pick.

I'll need some help here setting up the poll once this thread is done to setup the final Rd 1 Poll. For now we need to decide on who is "on our board" at #20. We said we'd have a couple days to make sure everyone had a chance for input as some folks contribute to the board from work. I'll step aside for a bit and let some of the draft experts list their thoughts. Adam put together some great prospect lists as the draft went along. We need to drill down to 5-7 prospects who would have been "at the top of our board". That seems pretty typical for what teams do in the draft process. Then we'll put up the poll and select our first round pick. If a couple prospects (or three) end up with say ~30% of the vote then we'll put them up side by side and select a clear winner. The only thing I'll say is that at this point Manti Te'o is not on my list. Will Kyle Long even be on our board for the Rd 1 selection? I suspect no. Who should be the prospects at the top of our board for our first pick?

I like Izzy but he's slowed down a lot the last couple years. He has never been and never will be a run stuffing DT so if that's the role you want to fill we have to go elsewhere. In terms of next year's needs I'd say it will be CB at the top of the list followed by LB (yes we have two in the pipeline but another mid-round pick here rounds out the group for the future), QB (time to get serious about grooming a good backup QB or replacement for Cutler), WR (depends on how well Wilson turns out but we need something other than Weems down the depth chart and we can't keep paying Bennett $4mil/yr), RB (need to free up cap space from Bush and need backup for Forte as he'll have two years left on his contract but we all know RBs go downhill rapidly once it starts) and last we need a future C.

Vikings were doing great until they gave up too much to take a WR who can't run routes. They could have stayed put and still picked up a very good WR in the 2nd rd. Patterson fits exactly what they had athletically with Percy Harvin but it seems they went out of their way to get him and I'd say they could have added two WRs who were more prepared to contribute this year (WR and KR/PR) with the picks they gave up plus they have one more draftee on the roster...CB?

I would say in an ideal world Carimi wins the starting RG job instead of Slauson. It's not a question of me wanting Carimi there rather with all the competition for Oline jobs if he does win a starting job it means our depth will be much better. We have competing for OG roster spots: Ebon Britton, Carimi, Brown, Slauson, Edwin Williams, and Long. We know Long is staying. Williams may also be competing for a slot as backup C but I expect he's gone. With the new rules preventing contact in practice nothing can be known until we get to training camp.

After watching those highlights where he's still able to beat double coverage against teams like ASU and Oregon I'm impressed for a 7th rd pick. I know those defenses aren't Alabama talent but you still had guys like Dion Jordan, Kiko Alonso, and others out there who were pretty good athletes. Same goes for ASU. He needs to get stronger for sure but the team knows how to get that done and he has some good role models on the roster to learn from. He ran a 4.45 forty and is true "hands" catcher who can both track to the ball and go up high in traffic to make the tough catch...you typically don't find this combination late in the draft. We'll see if he can learn the offense and keep his head on straight but right now it appears Earl Bennett has one more year before we use his cap space elsewhere.