AZ54

I have 8 more weeks of this mess to get through, at least let me dream until then.

It's becoming clearer that Lovie has lost this team. I can't put it any clearer than that. There are just too many errors out on the field in terms of execution and at some point you stop blaming players and have to look at the leadership they are getting. While I don't think we have great talent, we do have enough talent to stay on the field with a team like the Cardinals. I've watched a lot of Cardinals games and their Oline is not that good yet we made them look great. There is just no passion coming out of these players and this is a game that can only be played well with passion. Hello Bill? Yeah, it's Jerry Angelo, listen, about next year....

I read a post from another board where they proposed putting Williams at LT and Shaffer at RT with Pace on the bench. It won't happen now but with this season rapidly going down the tubes it should happen at some point.

I agree, I think we must spend the big bucks on a top tier FA Oline. Then work to upgrade other slots via the draft.

Cards news: Last week Boldin hurt his ankle (again) and was limping pretty badly. I really don't expect him to play except he might because Early Doucet is also fighting an ankle injury and Boldin is one tough man who will fight through the pain if it's possible. If he's on the field he won't be close 100%. Nobody can stop Fitz and Breaston is a good compliment to him. Boldin mostly works the underneath stuff these days and isn't someone who runs away from even LB but if you give him space he'll hurt you with YAC. At best we can contain this group. Cards Oline is quite possibly worse than our Oline on pass protection. Their OT's routinely get beat on the edge. There is only one way to stop Warner and that is to get pressure on him. Carolina did it all game long last week but of course we don't have Julius Peppers on our team. This is the KEY TO THE GAME for us. Cards RB: Hightower, good RB similar to our AP but not much of a threat you need to focus on. Beanie Wells however is a different story: size, power, quickness, and speed. Wells isn't fully up to speed so he gets about 1/3 of the carries but you will see the difference when he gets the ball. Bears need to note when he's in the game. Cards DBs: Been playing better in the last few games and DRC can shadow anyone in the league but sometimes bites on double moves or play fakes. Overall you can move the ball consistently against them if you take what they give you. Adrian Wilson hurts people when he hits them but you can catch him out of position at times. Cards LB: good unit, not spectacular but good all around. You will see them doing the exact same thing the Bears LB do before the snap--shuffling up into the gaps to blitz/fake blitz. Cards DL: Dockett can get push up the middle but can also take plays off. Watch for Calais Campbell DE he's playing well coming off the edge and he's tall. However, his height likely help Pace when it comes to blocking. Pass protect against their pass rush and blitz and Cutler will be effective. Overall: Their run D is solid. We need to pass protect for Cutler and he can find plenty of opportunities against their DBs. Forte won't have a good day but regardless we should run enough to make play action effective as their DBs bite on it. Our defense absolutely must get to Warner early and often.

I agree with you on that. Fire off more quick passes and it will also take the edge off the pass rush as they'll start thinking more about raising up to knock the pass down. That will help us when we decide to take a full 7 step drop especially if it's on a 2 and 4 type down.

I'm not buying anything Lovie is selling in that quote. I'll just go by the colors of the two quarterback uniforms to judge how well each line played and Cutler's had a hell of lot more grass stains on it, not to mention some blood.

Boldin is already hurt and missing game time. Like i said in the offseason, I love the way he plays the game but he has only played one full season and he's just not a #1 WR but is a good complimentary WR. We already have several of those. One thing about the WR getting open: Teams know that we can't pass protect so despite the speed we have at WR they only have to cover for about 2 perhaps 3 seconds before Cutler is on his butt or dumping off the ball. There really isn't time for deeper routes to develop and in fact we haven't seen many deep passes from Cutler, at least not like I thought we would this season. We have a young WR corps so I'm not absolving them from responsibility either. Another part of this equation is that I think we have a lot of "reads" the WR and QB have to make on the fly and right now they are all new to this and are not on the same page. If Cutler had more time to wait for things to develop it would mask this issue but with this Oline that ain't gonna happen.

Another week gone by and another wasted opportunity to fire Harry. The Oline was horrible to start the game. The Browns were clearly mixing up the pass rush but still we need better from this group. Some running lanes were opened later in the game but pass protection was rarely seen. RB: I'm getting tired of Forte dancing around at the LOS. On at least one play late in the game Forte completely blew his pass protection assignment and got Cutler leveled. On one of his goal line runs he stayed up high and got stopped for no gain when he could have lowered his pads and gained at least 1/2 yard or more. Isn't this fundamental RB stuff? Just how bad does Forte have to play before a message gets sent to him? What does it take to get Wolfe on the field for more reps? QB: Cutler is a one tough SOB and took a lot of hits. I thought for most of the game he was confused and couldn't get a read on the defense. On one goal line play Cleveland blitzed and he should have just hit Olsen who was left open by the blitzing player instead he took a sack. He had another INT and nearly lost a fumble that was over-ruled on replay challenge. Just an average day for him. If you take the Oline out for dinner take them to a rib shack just to remind them how badly yours are hurting after Shaun Rogers landed on you, among others. OC: Scrap the wildcat play. We can't execute the basic plays there's no need to add more gee-whiz stuff to the playbook. Nobody is really surprised by this stuff anymore and unlike other wildcat teams your QB is the best offensive player on the field, give him the ball on every snap. Overall the offense is underachieving even when we play some of the worst defenses in the league. We can't find a single weakness against any team we play and that has to be on you. Dline: Tommie Harris you are on pace to earn $321,000 per tackle. Good for you but there's no way I'd be writing those checks next year. At least now everyone knows what your problem is; you're playing touch football. The rest of the Dline had trouble getting pass pressure and couldn't get off blocks to stop the run. We've seen this before and it didn't end well. LB: Not much inspired play at all. Lots of guys getting dragged around by Jamal Lewis even when we stacked the line against the run. CB: All I can say is that it's easy to look good when you have nobody to cover and it's even easier when you know the QB will likely miss anyone who is open. Still coverage wasn't all bad but we'll see what you got next week against AZ. S: Great diving INT by DManning. Afalava tipped a pass on a blitz. That's about all I recall. DC Lovie: Defense overall got 5 turnovers and there has to be credit for that. If we have a good defense then I'd expect multiple turnovers against a team like Cleveland and on this note they delivered. Pass rush by Dline was minimal and run defense was weak. I don't see how we survive all season on these blitzes, fake blitzes. Special teams: good 95% of the time really bad the other 5% including Maynard's sideways punt and the late KR to Cribbs. The final score doesn't reflect how long we let Cleveland stay in this game. It should have been over by halftime but the offense was totally inept in the first half. I still believe that any win in the NFL is a good win but we continue to prove that we cannot put lesser opponents away easily (Seattle, Lions, Cleveland) and that convinces me we're just not that good of a team. I thought we'd be 9-7 this year but right now I don't see that happening unless something on offense greatly improves. This defense is not nearly good enough to carry us to victory.

We missed Harris' 1.8 tackles in that game? I don't think so.

We can't fix everything now but we can fire Harry Hiestand. Losing him can't possibly make our Oline play worse. We can also put Beekman in for Omiyale. Omiyale may yet turn out to be a good player for us as he's still learning a new position but I really think he AT A MINIMUM needs a sideline breather so he can just watch and learn for a bit. If Beekman plays well don't take him out. If Beekman has some struggles give Omiyale a chance to earn it back after a few games. Do something.

If my boss quits talking to me it means I'm fired. If he's mad at me it means he's pushing me to improve. I don't know what goes on in the locker room so I won't say if this is an issue with Lovie or not. Yelling, IMO often indicates a loss of control especially if it's constant. People quickly tune it out. I don't care either way because it's about results and I believe you can get good results either way as long as you hold people accountable for poor performance. Actually let me rephrase that, as long as you hold the right people accountable. It's important to know exactly where the weak link is. Is it position coaches, players, coordinators? From Angelo's perspective is it head coach? If you simply go after everyone those who are doing things right, or at least mostly right will quickly lose interest in following you. In my experience even the worst organizations have many good people working for them they just need the right leadership. I also know that a few weak links can make the whole thing look bad. This is by far the worst game for our defense but IMO the Oline has been consistently poor. Therefore I start there by pulling Omiyale and inserting Beekman. I'd also fire Harry Heistand but I don't see Lovie or Turner doing that. Pace should be put on notice and I think consideration should be given to letting Vasher take over for Bowman. I think DManning is playing well at FS but moving him to NB leaves a hole behind the defense with Payne and Afalava. Is this our best combination or can't we keep DManning at FS and bring in Graham at NB? In any case I don't feel Lovie should stay put and not make changes. Unfortunately we play the "get well team" in Cleveland and a win against them at home can mask problems and make him feel like it's back under control. OTOH if we lose and he hasn't made changes he risks losing the team because those who are playing well will wonder why he waited so long and cost the team a win.

I agree, the Oline and Dline were flat out awful.

I don't know if the sack total would be worse with Orton but I do know that we'd have a lot less intermediate completions (10-20yd) and a lot more checkdowns.

Urlacher isn't anywhere near as fast as he used to be. A couple years ago I was intrigued by the idea of moving him to S but at this point in his career I don't see it happening. If we did move him there I don't think it would be beneficial to the team.

People are reading way too much into the nuances of how guys act on the sideline. Tillman looked defeated and distracted? Based on which expert? I appreciate all feedback from everyone on the board, especially first hand from the games like Jason gave. It is interesting to note but if you aren't there talking with Tillman then you really don't know what he's thinking or talking about. Here's a thought: Maybe he wants to B-slap Matt Forte for not holding onto the football on two consecutive plays at the goal line? For sure that affected my demeanor! One more thought on accountability. When Beanie Wells fumbled twice in a Cardinals road game, including one near the goal line, he was pulled from the game by Whisenhunt. Afterwards he was given a football by his teammates and told that he wasn't to put it down until he got home. He arrived in Phoenix and got off the plane carrying that same football. Message sent. We need some of that. This thread started with a post about sitting some players. I think there is some merit to it but let's do that based on performance on the field not on the bench. I am still surprised at the continued bad sentiment about our defense. I think they are doing a good job with very little elite talent. I do agree that Lovie or someone should have called a timeout to get setup against the no-huddle offense they ran. However, Lovie freely admitted he was wrong on that at the post-game conference. Roach was totally lost on those play calls but he's inexperienced and overall I think he's doing pretty good at a position he rarely practiced before two injuries put him there. Hunter is better at the play calls so I am quite certain Hillenmeyer will be back in the middle for us if he's healthy this week.

I think the right move now is for Lovie to take charge and fire Harry and put Turner on notice. If this crap continues I agree in firing Turner too but I think that's best done at the end of the season. If Turner refused to fire Harry then they can both walk now. The question is, who would take over if Turner is cut loose? For sure we all agree Harry is out too, or at best not worthy of any promotion. We have left: Pep Hamilton QB coach (no background besides QB coach) Tim Spencer RB coach (nothing but coaching RB) Darryl Drake WR coach (virtually no backgroudn besides WR coach) Rob Boras TE coach (UNLV OC for 3 yrs, 1 yr head coach at Ill Benedictine College, otherwise coach OL/TE Luke Butkus Oline ass't (maybe he can bring some more attitude?) Charles London Offensive Ass't (never heard of him) or the wild card Dave Toub who I think is the single best assistant coach on our team but his background is primarily special teams and some defense.

I've been through too many seasons recently with our Oline under-performing and after last nights game I'm done with it. Last year Lovie made a lot of changes but he forgot one and left this guy in place and that's because he's Ron Turner's buddy; came over with him from Univ of Illinois. I called for his head last year when he was whining about how the fans don't know what's going on and the Oline played poorly. He basically said they weren't that bad. I think it's clear he doesn't know what's going on or his standards for success on plays is extremely low. Fans, including those on this message board, continue to say we have poor talent but we keep throwing guys into the mix and NOBODY ever improves or stands out. I see other teams with average Oline talent that doesn't look as bad as we do play after play. Maybe those teams have occasional mistakes, but we have a consistently under-performing Oline. We can make some changes on the Oline but we can't fire the players. Doing this would send a clear message to these guys and I think that needs to be done NOW. ******************************************************************* http://www.chicagobears.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=9 The offensive line has been the most experienced unit on the Bears roster over the last couple of years, led by 11-year veteran and six-time Pro Bowl C Olin Kreutz, who enters the 2009 season having started a team-high 102 consecutive games. ********************************************************************* EXPERIENCE YET WE SUCK? Do what we did with the DBs and fire the college-background position coach and bring in a guy with a solid NFL resume. I don't care if it is the middle of the season we need some accountability.

Too early for this to be a must win. I'm not that impressed by the Vikings 6 wins. The Packers they beat outright but beyond that the two good teams they've played in Baltimore and 49ers they should have lost to. Beating Cleveland, Detroit, and StLouis aren't impressive victories especially getting these rebuilding teams (Det, StL) early in the year. They are a good team capable of beating any team but they are not a dominant team to worry about. By the way I feel the same about Baltimore, as their offense improves their defense declines proportionally. For us a victory tonight would go a long way to showing that the Bears are for real and are improving. I'm looking forward to this challenge to see where we fit in among the better teams.

That's exactly how I see it and I don't expect we'd get a better player than Gaines at that spot. You might get an equivalent player but I'll take the risk on Gaines' upside.

I like this move for a couple reasons. First, he's got the raw talent to excel at this position and we have the coach who should be able to get that to show up on Sundays. The upside has Gaines at a Pro Bowl level. OTOH I don't think the downside is going to be worse than what we have right now among our DEs. I don't see us finding a player with this much talent in the second half of Rd 2 in the draft. Second, this gives us multiple options in FA moving forward to fill the third DE spot. It might force Ogunleye to accept a lower contract for a part time player if he wants to stick around. At his age I think it's reasonable to sign him to a mid level contract somewhere between starter money and backup money as long as we can get out of it easily in a couple years. The Bears are good at these contracts (See Tommie Harris). If that fails Anderson is still an option but despite his improved play I haven't yet seen enough from him to feel he's a solid part of a 3-man rotation. Or we can go out into FA to pursue a player to fit into the rotation. The unknown here is where the Bears decide to play Gilbert. It's possible he becomes the third man in our DE rotation next year. I don't think so and this move makes it seem more likely that Gilbert becomes the heir apparent to Tommie Harris. Bottom line is we picked up an elite talent who is underperforming but who should be at least capable of performing as well as our current DEs. In exchange we don't have a lot of money committed to what is typically a high dollar position thus freeing up money to go after some other marquee players in FA. Of course Cutler will get a new contract but we'll be able to go way beyond that. It's too early to predict FA but even if there aren't any marquee players available JA could use the space to bring in better depth in the secondary, WR, DT. Oline.

JA said he was changing that aspect (taking players w/ injury history) in the draft this year and he lived up to it, at least until the later rounds. I think it's ok to take a flyer like that because most of the players there have a low ceiling. Why not go after a guy or two with a higher ceiling especially if you already have a good team? Otherwise you tend to end up with mostly practice squad players. You do find the occasional Afalava in there. Knox didn't have injury history but he too was a clear risk/reward type. It will take a few years to see if the new approach proves to be better but so far this year I think it's been good.

When JA cut Benson part of the logic was his affect on the locker room. The guy had never earned any respect with his teammates here. That was part of what he had to build during that critical offseason along with the other aspects. I don't recall any players being upset at losing Ced, it was much more don't let the door hit you on the way out. Football is a team sport and regardless of talent guys have to fit in enough to bring cohesion on the field. For all his talent why has T.O. been cut so many times? I think Ced's issues with is teammates fell in the same category.

I understand your logic in requiring DA to fill in for Davis on special teams but I don't view that as entirely correct. For this discussion I think we can leave the FG unit out. Then we are talking about 4 phases: returns both KR, and PR, and coverage P, and K. KR: Knox has already proven to be capable of KR, and in terms of having a couple extra hands guys out there we also have DManning, Hester, and Wolfe who are consistently active. I don't think Davis is a key blocker in our scheme so I don't see the need for him here. PR: It's Hester's job but again Knox has done this in preseason but I can't recall him doing it in the regular season. We've also been successful with Bennett and I think someone else successfully returned a punt when Hester went out. Blocking the gunners is one of the roles I think Davis fills and I'll be honest I have no clue who else does this for us. This would definitely be one role for DA to fill but he has the size and speed to do this. Coverage teams: KO: We have many players who are doing well on kick coverage units from Shaw, Wolfe, Graham. Coverage hasn't been perfect for sure but it's getting better. I don't recall Davis making too many big tackles but I'll assume he's done well there. Punt coverage: This is one place where Davis has excelled. We've had others excel here too including Wolfe and Graham. Is there someone else that can handle this decently among our DBs or can DA fill in directly? I'd open that to discussion but I feel this is only significant hole that needs to be filled on special teams when you make Davis inactive. While I think we can and should do this I'll add that now is not the best time for it. We have multiple injuries at LB that have hurt our special teams depth, and Izzy is out for a few weeks too. On top of that coverage units are still coming together. I'd wait a couple more weeks but as it looks now I'd go for it in our 8th or 9th game of the season.

In it's early years the Dallas franchise understood marketing. When the league first came out and requested teams play on Thanksgiving nobody wanted to play, at least none of the good franchises wanted to play on such a short week. Dallas jumped at the offer with the thinking that their team would be seen on national TV and they'd build more fans. As the team became successful naturally people migrated to them much like these days you can find Packers fans who don't know where Green Bay is on a map. I think it went even beyond that for Dallas, I suspect they were successful getting their games broadcast into other "team-less"markets such as Phoenix. When I went to school at Iowa State just north of Des Moines I was amazed at how many Iowans were Cowboys fans. I asked them why when the Vikings (who had success with Fran Tarkenton) were so close to the north, and the Bears (who hadn't had much success in the 70's) were closer to the east. In the south you had St Louis and Kansas City in Missouri. Most said those were the games they saw on TV growing up, and of course since the team was winning they became a fan. When I moved to Arizona in the early 90's I found the same thing, a lot of Cowboy fans. When I ask why when you have Rams, 49ers, Raiders, Chargers you get the same answer: Those were the games they watched growing up. To this day we have a lot of native Arizonans who remain Cowboy fans. At any rate this is how I believe the Cowboys built up such a big following around the country and based on that following the term "America's Team" was coined. On a nostalgic note, I was in college in the 80's and during the 85 season the Bears rolled into Big D for a game. I lived in a dorm and we had about 7 Chicagoans so naturally this was a big showdown between Bears and Cowboys fans and the TV room was packed with at least 25 people to watch the game. At the time Dallas was considered one of the top teams for the playoffs. Midway through the 4th quarter only 7 people were left watching the game and all had a big smile on their face. To this day I never hesitate to bring this up when a Cowboy fan gets a little too presumptuous about their franchise's history. Sixburgh fans will pipe down when you remind them the Bears have 9 titles and none of them required bringing their own referees. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...11885bears.html 44-0 Bears flatten Cowboys, hand them worst defeat 11/18/1985 By GARY MYERS / The Dallas Morning News It was not a pretty sight, not by any means – Cowboys splattered across Texas Stadium, ravaged to a degree never experienced in the team's 26-year history. Unlike the pre-season game against Chicago, which was highlighted by six fights and $6,000 in fines, the Cowboys did not retaliate. "There isn't any question we took an old-fashioned whupping," Cowboys coach Tom Landry said. "They just whipped us." For starters, Sunday's 44-0 loss to the Bears was the most lopsided in Cowboys' history. It was only their third shutout – the first at Texas Stadium – and broke a string of 218 games in which the Cowboys have scored. The Cowboys (7-4) dropped to second place in the NFC East, a half-game behind New York, which plays at Washington Monday night. Chicago (11-0) clinched the NFC Central and is five games away from the first 16-0 regular season in NFL history. "The Bears basically destroyed us," Dennis Thurman said. "I hurt, I think everybody on this team is hurting," Bill Bates said."My pride is hurt."