AZ54

After reading the article I agree that Heimerdinger seems to be worthy of being on the list of candidates to replace Love. However, I want to approach this from a different view point: What happens if we don't fire Lovie? Cutler first and foremost is the future of this football team. From a draft standpoint as well as financially we've invested a lot in him. It's real simple, either you are committed to making Cutler successful or you are not. Given that is keeping Lovie around for another year worth it or will it simply delay what we believe can be the success of Cutler? I can't see anyway the organization can be pleased with Ron Turner's performance. For years he had the excuses of not having the right QB. Then we get him a QB who threw for over 4,000 yards last year and we end up looking the same. I realize the picture is more complex than that but the bottom line here is that we have struggled to produce successful players and consistent offense under his tutelage. Turner is not under contract so we must fill that spot and to get a qualified candidate when Lovie is in his make or break year will be very difficult. How does Cutler improve with a stopgap OC and then another new system started up with a new head coach the year after? Going against Lovie is that his defense is a mess. With him running the show and with the highly respected Rod Marinelli coaching his Dline we have simply gone from bad to inept. Losing two starting LBs is not the sole cause for this disaster especially when many in the organization were touting our LB depth at the start of the season. If Urlacher simply means that much to the defense then what is the value of the coaching staff? Other teams lose key players and while there might be some fall off in performance they don't go all the way to zero. Further complicating issues is player development. Was Nick Roach the right call over Jamar Williams when Pisa went down? Safeties anyone? We have lots of them and they all seem to get playing time every year for one reason or another. After years of this mess I simply don't see how players trust these coaches. To sum it all up the opportunity cost of keeping Lovie around is simply too great. We finally have the QB with the talent to be one of the best in the league. It is time for the organization to simply say that getting Cutler on track is the best thing for the organization and recognize that it won't happen under Lovie. We need to move on regardless of the money left on Lovie's contract. In the long run that will be the better financial investment for the organization.

This article has a segment where they talk about how the offensive coaches schemed to double team Ray Edwards (the other Vikings DE) instead of Jared Allen. Allen got two sacks against Pace that game. Pace also got hurt that game and Shaffer came in and we still didn't change our scheme. Turner is coy and won't tip our hand completely for this game though as Turner states we'll be switching off the chip blocks to either DE. I'm glad we have such creative coaches that we do such unexpected schemes like this so we can catch defense off guard. Cutler is pretty damning with his statement at the end. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,5015484.story The Bears had Pace singled up on Allen last time, choosing to help Williams on the right side where he went against Ray Edwards. "I obviously appreciated it," Allen said. "We'll see how this one plays out. Hopefully, I can get the same kind of treatment, get some more one-on-ones." He's not going to be so lucky. Offensive coordinator Ron Turner said the Bears are going to mix up their approach, asking Williams to solo block Allen at times and helping him in other situations. Kevin Shaffer figures to get solo duty on the right side with Edwards this time around. "It should be a tough matchup for Chris all day long," Cutler said. "But that's his job. That's what he has to do. "Obviously we have to help him and put some guys on Allen and get some chips. That's what you have to do against a defensive end of his caliber."

I realize it's nice to have your MLB call plays in the huddle but I still don't understand why Briggs couldn't have done that when Urlacher went down. Instead we went with Roach who just wasn't any good at lining up his teammates. Hillenmeyer has done much better there but why couldn't Briggs have done so?

Cribbs runs a 4.6 forty the difference between his current KR/PR and Hester's the amount of heart he runs with. Cribbs fights for the yards while Hester is just looking for the easy holes these days, or the least painful tackle.

Let's cut to chase here: Is Tommie Harris the problem with our DTs? His attitude has been sh***y ever since he got his huge contract. He has been disciplined multiple times for not adhering to team rules and/or not working out/rehabbing. While he might be our best player is he a cancer in the locker room? Fact is guys see who is making the big bucks and no matter what that gives a guy something of a lead role in the locker room. It's like that everywhere...people see what it takes to make more money and they'll emulate it even if it's selfish behavior. I say he is.

I agree. I watched the AZ vs. Minn game and the entire game their RB or TE chip blocked Allen to help their backup OT and the result was they virtually shutdown Allen the entire game. When they chip block they actually hit him hard enough to move him (take away his initial burst) and then they ran out into the flat or some other short dump off route. I've never seen us do this under Lovie, or at least not do it as well but then they hired this guy: Russ Grimm Asst. Head Coach/Running Game Coordinator/Offensive Line ...and we have Harry. Nobody can tell me the Cards have more talent on their line because Mike Gandy has been their starting LT. Other journeyman players have been among the starters. Point is he has managed to get these players to play at a higher level than you'd expect while on our roster we get the opposite. Maybe we should consider Grimm as our new HC? He was talked about a lot years ago but has since fallen off the "hot list".

I like Ogunleye and I like Brown and I feel either one would be a much better player if we had a premier pass rusher somewhere on the Dline. I know that isn't news but they are both solid players but that's all we have at DE and our DT situation seems to be worse than solid. Somewhere someway we need to get another elite player on the Dline. I don't see the point in keeping Ogunleye at his age. As I stated before our window is closed with this roster. We have a few core players we can continue to build around (Briggs, Cutler) but otherwise it's time to start investing in youth. Take his money and throw it at someone else who has a longer future than he does.

I say about the same but I don't do his job fulltime so it's hard to know. I tend to agree with the post above that points out how poorly we develop players, and will add how poorly we utilize them. Nothing was clearer than Moose getting about 40% more yards receiving after he left here and we all said he was washed up. On the other hand we do things like demoting Alex Brown for Mark Anderson. All I know is that something is clearly wrong with this team. The players are selfish (much like their head coach) and they don't have their heart in the game. From a raw talent standpoint I don't think our players are that bad. I said before, if we have average players we should be an average offense and defense. You can argue all the individual spots some are better (Briggs) some worse (Omiyale). Clearly JA should be doing better in his talent evals but being a coach is all about maximizing the players you have and we don't come close to that. In fact we minimize them.

This is a really tough decision: Tackle Asst sack Tommie Harris CHI DT 20 15 5 2.5 Israel Idonije CHI DT 16 12 4 2.5 Anthony AdamsCHI DT 35 30 5 2.0 Marcus HarrisonCHI DT 24 16 8 1.0

I think it's reasonable to assume there are probably 1,000,000 Bears fans around the country. I propose we all chip in $5 toward firing Lovie. That would total 5 million and the Bears can come up with the other half.

If Lovie is back next year I might have to skip a season, then come back when we have a new head coach and/or GM. It's too hard to watch this mess. The team has no heart whatsoever anymore, a clear sign nobody believes in what they are doing.

"We didn't expect them to come out running and passing. They caught us off-guard."

Turner said they had the right protection called on that play so it was Cutler's fault he under-threw the WR. Only question is if we had the right protection why did Cutler get run over on the play?

The only reason Adams is a Bears is because he's a wimp. Well at least that's my assessment. He has no muscle and no conditioning. You can see some of his quickness to get to the edge but if anyone gets a hand on his shoulder he doesn't have the strength to bend around the corner. I didn't expect much from him this year but I didn't expect him to be as bad as he is. He's a project for next year but here's my biggest concern: Is Lovie the right guy to turn him around? I don't see it. Perhaps Marinelli is but let's be clear if the players lose faith in the head coach and the overall scheme position coaches no longer matter.

Don't tease me bro'

Dude, that was "in" years ago. Where ya been?

I was thinking today that perhaps JA has already hedged his bet that Lovie wouldn't turn around this team. For a head coach who still has two years remaining he didn't go out last year and hire a DC. He didn't extend Ron Turner's contract past this season. I don't know the timing of the assistant coaches contracts but my point is that the two largest contracts besides the HC don't exist in this organization. Was that done to make firing Lovie more financially acceptable? Wouldn't it have been more logical to hire a new DC since at the time Lovie still had 3 years left on his contract? Clearly last year JA was the source of all the staff changes last year. Did JA have discussions with Ted Philips and plan for this contingency? Nothing more than speculation here but I'm wondering if there wasn't some sort of mandate given to Lovie (i.e. you must make the playoffs). By the way if there was any discussion about the scheme between JA/Lovie you have to say putting Lovie in full charge of the D is one of making him put up or shutup. In other words, if Lovie can't get the D to run right then there's nowhere for him to hide. I know some will point out the lack of talent but again, if we at least have average players why can't we be an average D? There's been plenty of threads here about players who've left here and became more productive on other teams. I still can't see the Bears firing Lovie with two years left on the deal but I am wondering if his seat isn't a bit hotter than I know.

Never embarrassed to be a Bears fan. I live in AZ and have watched friends who lived with the Cards through all their tough years and now believe me they are flying high and feeling great for sticking with their team for so long. That's what being a fan is about. I've done the same with the Bears. Back before Lovie I was often the only Bears fan in the sports bar but in 2006 that changed. Now it's headed back that way again but I'll be there as we rebuild it just like last time.

Too busy to reply last night... I can agree we won't get two picks for Hester but I'm not so sure we can't get a late 1st Rd pick for him. If it's not offered we don't need to do anything. I believe Knox will develop into a better WR down the road than Hester. He has better instincts for the role and while he is 10lbs lighter than Hester today I don't think that difference makes it past next season. Likewise for those who pointed out that Knox only knows one WR position, of course, it's his first season but there's no reason to think he can't learn more routes for next season. I think what's most important is to have a GM who realizes this team is done and be smart enough to reset his goals for 2 years down the road. He must identify those players who today might be good for us, in two years when we are ready to compete in the playoffs they'll be hindering the team. That includes accounting for what typically are higher salaries for past glory (i.e. Kreutz). Figure out who those players are and move them. I think the thread has gone in a good direction in discussing who fits that mold. Obviously I put Hester in there simply because I don't think he'll be more than what he is today and this is likely his best market, just doesn't appear to be as good as I hoped. Nonetheless, I'd float it around the league and see if anyone bites hard. I can go either way with Briggs depending on what happens with Williams. I'd love to see more from Williams these last few games. If we have Briggs replacement on the roster for less money then go there to free up cash and get a pick for Briggs. If we don't have the replacement then we keep Briggs because he's young enough and good enough that he should be a strong contributor in three years. Urlacher is on the list because he should have value to a few teams for a couple years. Three years from now he'll be done for us when we're ready to challenge. Get what you can now to find his replacement.

A year ago, perhaps two, there was a thread where someone proposed trading Hester. I think it was after his second season when he was about to set all sorts of records on KR/PR. At the time I was against it because I figured he was a marquee player and if the WR experiment didn't work out he'd at least be an elite PR/KR. Two years later I'm throwing that out the window. I see a team in need of a lot of rebuilding, not a total rebuild but definitely in need of some cornerstone players. Those players are only going to arrive in one of three ways: High draft picks, FA, or dumb luck. Why trade Hester? He's still a huge name around the league and will command top compensation. As a PR/KR he is no longer what he used to be. Quite simply, he runs scared and he's just not as quick and fast as he used to be. As a WR I've seen enough to know he'll never be what Steve Smith was at his best. I can see Hester being a 1,000 yard WR in a good system, even making some big plays for a team but I don't see him ever being a #1 as Lovie says he is, not a #1 who can overcome double teams to succeed. Hester just doesn't have that desire to go get the ball that really good WR have. If I think he can contribute that much why trade him? We can trade him because we have his replacement on the roster...Johnny Knox. In his first season Knox has shown me more natural WR instincts than I've ever seen in Hester. Clearly Knox has had his mistakes this year but he still appears to be getting better each game. As a KR and PR Knox is at least equally as effective as Hester, I think he's better because he's more aggresive when he runs. Hester is a smaller WR, Knox is bigger and in a year or two should have more strength and fare better against press coverage than Hester does today. Bennett is also not that big and appears to be headed toward a career as a good #2 or #3 WR. I think we need a bigger WR on the field as a complement to the smaller quicker guys and that guy isn't Greg Olsen. DA is still somewhat unknown but has shown some flashes enough that he needs to get on the field a lot these last few games. As it is today I'm not sure the trio of Knox, Bennett, DA won't be as productive as Hester, Bennett, Knox. Hopefully we'll have a better idea of that at the end of the season. In exchange for Hester I think we can get a minimum of a first round pick and depending on where that pick was very likely another high pick (perhaps a 3rd). I'd be going after Oline with that 1st Rd pick. JA (or new GM) could trade one of the thirds (plus later picks) to get back into the 2nd Rd and I'd probably grab another Oline player with that one too. Salary cap is another reason. I don't recall the numbers on his contract but if we cut Hester and Tommie Harris we clear out even more space, money that can be spent on key FA to help this team get back to the top quickly.

Put a fork in him, he's done.

The Bears were nearing the end of their run and headed for rebuilding. Going after Jay Cutler was still the right move IMO. We have a guy with all the physical talents needed, we just need to build the offense around him. Did this accelerate our decline a bit? Perhaps but I think Urlacher (IR) and Harris (inept) have more to do with it than Cutler. Harris was supposed to be our franchise DT and he's not even close. Urlacher is at the end of his career but likely would have had a good season for us except he's not on the field. While Briggs has made it to some Pro Bowls he's not a franchise player and he's far from a team leader. Like I said before, despite the lack of blue chip talent, I think we at least have average talent but our play is far from average. That's where the poor coaching comes into play.

Do I have this understood correctly: Gilbert is impressive in practice yet we're not sure if he can replace the unimpressive DTs on the active roster? Is Harry still telling fans our Oline is playing well?

At a minimum we have average players on defense. Some IMO are good players (above average) and others might be below average but the sum is not below average in talent. Bottom line is that we should at least have an average defense yet we don't, we're one of the worst (if not the worst) defense in the NFL. We are heading downhill rapidly so if we aren't at the bottom we will likely finish there. You can't tell me this is all because Harris is not the same player, or that Url is out, or that Pisa is out. Pisa was competing with Roach to decide who started so that can't be a huge dropoff or the coaches were lying about Roach. I watch a lot of games and it's just a fact that other teams seem to have their players in the right spot more often than we do. The only thing left for me is that the players no longer have confidence in this scheme and why should they? We do stupid sh** such as blitzing while having our CBs 10 yards off the LOS so QBs have immediate quick outlets and then WR have lots of free space to run. Has anyone else noticed that lately our CBs are playing well in man-to-man coverage, far better than we play in our drop back "here-take-10-yards" zone? Bowman in particular seems a lot more comfortable in man-to-man than he is in our zone. Lovie came out after halftime and told the TV reporter that he was upset over the turnovers and that was killing our team. I laughed because he must be so busy calling defensive plays he missed how bad his defense was. I'm not happy about the INT in the endzone but damn that shouldn't kill your entire game. Unless your defense can't stop anybody and responds by giving up an 80 yard TD drive. INT's happen to lots of teams. Peyton Manning has thrown two picks in each of his last two games. He's still undefeated. Kurt Warner has thrown multiple picks in some Cards games yet they keep on fighting. He has less of an excuse than Cutler because he's throwing to the same Pro Bowl WRs as last year. Still they come back the next game and play hard. Lovie has lost this team.

Each week Lovie loses this team just a little bit more. Three weeks ago I didn't think that was possible but it's true.