AZ54

If Lovie is back next year I might have to skip a season, then come back when we have a new head coach and/or GM. It's too hard to watch this mess. The team has no heart whatsoever anymore, a clear sign nobody believes in what they are doing.

"We didn't expect them to come out running and passing. They caught us off-guard."

Turner said they had the right protection called on that play so it was Cutler's fault he under-threw the WR. Only question is if we had the right protection why did Cutler get run over on the play?

The only reason Adams is a Bears is because he's a wimp. Well at least that's my assessment. He has no muscle and no conditioning. You can see some of his quickness to get to the edge but if anyone gets a hand on his shoulder he doesn't have the strength to bend around the corner. I didn't expect much from him this year but I didn't expect him to be as bad as he is. He's a project for next year but here's my biggest concern: Is Lovie the right guy to turn him around? I don't see it. Perhaps Marinelli is but let's be clear if the players lose faith in the head coach and the overall scheme position coaches no longer matter.

Don't tease me bro'

Dude, that was "in" years ago. Where ya been?

I was thinking today that perhaps JA has already hedged his bet that Lovie wouldn't turn around this team. For a head coach who still has two years remaining he didn't go out last year and hire a DC. He didn't extend Ron Turner's contract past this season. I don't know the timing of the assistant coaches contracts but my point is that the two largest contracts besides the HC don't exist in this organization. Was that done to make firing Lovie more financially acceptable? Wouldn't it have been more logical to hire a new DC since at the time Lovie still had 3 years left on his contract? Clearly last year JA was the source of all the staff changes last year. Did JA have discussions with Ted Philips and plan for this contingency? Nothing more than speculation here but I'm wondering if there wasn't some sort of mandate given to Lovie (i.e. you must make the playoffs). By the way if there was any discussion about the scheme between JA/Lovie you have to say putting Lovie in full charge of the D is one of making him put up or shutup. In other words, if Lovie can't get the D to run right then there's nowhere for him to hide. I know some will point out the lack of talent but again, if we at least have average players why can't we be an average D? There's been plenty of threads here about players who've left here and became more productive on other teams. I still can't see the Bears firing Lovie with two years left on the deal but I am wondering if his seat isn't a bit hotter than I know.

Never embarrassed to be a Bears fan. I live in AZ and have watched friends who lived with the Cards through all their tough years and now believe me they are flying high and feeling great for sticking with their team for so long. That's what being a fan is about. I've done the same with the Bears. Back before Lovie I was often the only Bears fan in the sports bar but in 2006 that changed. Now it's headed back that way again but I'll be there as we rebuild it just like last time.

Too busy to reply last night... I can agree we won't get two picks for Hester but I'm not so sure we can't get a late 1st Rd pick for him. If it's not offered we don't need to do anything. I believe Knox will develop into a better WR down the road than Hester. He has better instincts for the role and while he is 10lbs lighter than Hester today I don't think that difference makes it past next season. Likewise for those who pointed out that Knox only knows one WR position, of course, it's his first season but there's no reason to think he can't learn more routes for next season. I think what's most important is to have a GM who realizes this team is done and be smart enough to reset his goals for 2 years down the road. He must identify those players who today might be good for us, in two years when we are ready to compete in the playoffs they'll be hindering the team. That includes accounting for what typically are higher salaries for past glory (i.e. Kreutz). Figure out who those players are and move them. I think the thread has gone in a good direction in discussing who fits that mold. Obviously I put Hester in there simply because I don't think he'll be more than what he is today and this is likely his best market, just doesn't appear to be as good as I hoped. Nonetheless, I'd float it around the league and see if anyone bites hard. I can go either way with Briggs depending on what happens with Williams. I'd love to see more from Williams these last few games. If we have Briggs replacement on the roster for less money then go there to free up cash and get a pick for Briggs. If we don't have the replacement then we keep Briggs because he's young enough and good enough that he should be a strong contributor in three years. Urlacher is on the list because he should have value to a few teams for a couple years. Three years from now he'll be done for us when we're ready to challenge. Get what you can now to find his replacement.

A year ago, perhaps two, there was a thread where someone proposed trading Hester. I think it was after his second season when he was about to set all sorts of records on KR/PR. At the time I was against it because I figured he was a marquee player and if the WR experiment didn't work out he'd at least be an elite PR/KR. Two years later I'm throwing that out the window. I see a team in need of a lot of rebuilding, not a total rebuild but definitely in need of some cornerstone players. Those players are only going to arrive in one of three ways: High draft picks, FA, or dumb luck. Why trade Hester? He's still a huge name around the league and will command top compensation. As a PR/KR he is no longer what he used to be. Quite simply, he runs scared and he's just not as quick and fast as he used to be. As a WR I've seen enough to know he'll never be what Steve Smith was at his best. I can see Hester being a 1,000 yard WR in a good system, even making some big plays for a team but I don't see him ever being a #1 as Lovie says he is, not a #1 who can overcome double teams to succeed. Hester just doesn't have that desire to go get the ball that really good WR have. If I think he can contribute that much why trade him? We can trade him because we have his replacement on the roster...Johnny Knox. In his first season Knox has shown me more natural WR instincts than I've ever seen in Hester. Clearly Knox has had his mistakes this year but he still appears to be getting better each game. As a KR and PR Knox is at least equally as effective as Hester, I think he's better because he's more aggresive when he runs. Hester is a smaller WR, Knox is bigger and in a year or two should have more strength and fare better against press coverage than Hester does today. Bennett is also not that big and appears to be headed toward a career as a good #2 or #3 WR. I think we need a bigger WR on the field as a complement to the smaller quicker guys and that guy isn't Greg Olsen. DA is still somewhat unknown but has shown some flashes enough that he needs to get on the field a lot these last few games. As it is today I'm not sure the trio of Knox, Bennett, DA won't be as productive as Hester, Bennett, Knox. Hopefully we'll have a better idea of that at the end of the season. In exchange for Hester I think we can get a minimum of a first round pick and depending on where that pick was very likely another high pick (perhaps a 3rd). I'd be going after Oline with that 1st Rd pick. JA (or new GM) could trade one of the thirds (plus later picks) to get back into the 2nd Rd and I'd probably grab another Oline player with that one too. Salary cap is another reason. I don't recall the numbers on his contract but if we cut Hester and Tommie Harris we clear out even more space, money that can be spent on key FA to help this team get back to the top quickly.

Put a fork in him, he's done.

The Bears were nearing the end of their run and headed for rebuilding. Going after Jay Cutler was still the right move IMO. We have a guy with all the physical talents needed, we just need to build the offense around him. Did this accelerate our decline a bit? Perhaps but I think Urlacher (IR) and Harris (inept) have more to do with it than Cutler. Harris was supposed to be our franchise DT and he's not even close. Urlacher is at the end of his career but likely would have had a good season for us except he's not on the field. While Briggs has made it to some Pro Bowls he's not a franchise player and he's far from a team leader. Like I said before, despite the lack of blue chip talent, I think we at least have average talent but our play is far from average. That's where the poor coaching comes into play.

Do I have this understood correctly: Gilbert is impressive in practice yet we're not sure if he can replace the unimpressive DTs on the active roster? Is Harry still telling fans our Oline is playing well?

At a minimum we have average players on defense. Some IMO are good players (above average) and others might be below average but the sum is not below average in talent. Bottom line is that we should at least have an average defense yet we don't, we're one of the worst (if not the worst) defense in the NFL. We are heading downhill rapidly so if we aren't at the bottom we will likely finish there. You can't tell me this is all because Harris is not the same player, or that Url is out, or that Pisa is out. Pisa was competing with Roach to decide who started so that can't be a huge dropoff or the coaches were lying about Roach. I watch a lot of games and it's just a fact that other teams seem to have their players in the right spot more often than we do. The only thing left for me is that the players no longer have confidence in this scheme and why should they? We do stupid sh** such as blitzing while having our CBs 10 yards off the LOS so QBs have immediate quick outlets and then WR have lots of free space to run. Has anyone else noticed that lately our CBs are playing well in man-to-man coverage, far better than we play in our drop back "here-take-10-yards" zone? Bowman in particular seems a lot more comfortable in man-to-man than he is in our zone. Lovie came out after halftime and told the TV reporter that he was upset over the turnovers and that was killing our team. I laughed because he must be so busy calling defensive plays he missed how bad his defense was. I'm not happy about the INT in the endzone but damn that shouldn't kill your entire game. Unless your defense can't stop anybody and responds by giving up an 80 yard TD drive. INT's happen to lots of teams. Peyton Manning has thrown two picks in each of his last two games. He's still undefeated. Kurt Warner has thrown multiple picks in some Cards games yet they keep on fighting. He has less of an excuse than Cutler because he's throwing to the same Pro Bowl WRs as last year. Still they come back the next game and play hard. Lovie has lost this team.

Each week Lovie loses this team just a little bit more. Three weeks ago I didn't think that was possible but it's true.

If we blame coaching for Hester not blocking well then how do we not give coaching credit for Knox's block? Call the problem as it is, Hester is lazy. Recall he made no effort at the end of Eagles game to go down for a low pass. Recall his half-assed effort to get around an offical in the 49ers game. He is not into giving 100% all the time and it shows. I think this also frustrates Cutler because he doesn't know which speed Hester is going to run, how aggressively he'll come out of cuts so forth and that makes the timing difficult. It's been the same with Knox but he's learning his craft as a rookie WR and he shows improvement each week. Hester is not a #1 WR and the real coaching problem here is that once again Lovie has anointed him the #1 WR before it was earned.

I find the timing of these two bits of info (Bears investigating coaching options and Cowher interested in Bears) to be very interesting and not likely coincidental. Somebody is inquiring or making it known they might be interested. For his part, Cowher is no dummy he sees a team with the QB and some good talent already on the roster. On top of that our salary cap situation is pretty good and the organization has shown a willingness to spend money. This is a good job to get! The question is will the owners be willing to eat $10 million in salary to get rid of Lovie, plus more for his staff? Then on top of that we have to pay Cowher big $$$. For those who love conspiracy theories it's worth speculating that we didn't spend much money in the last offseason in terms of bonuses. Nothing at all like we did the year prior. We also didn't have a 1st Rd pick to give a huge bonus too. I know we got Cutler and gave him a new deal but I don't recall a lot of upfront bonus money. Next year we again don't have a first round pick and now no second rounder either. Last offseason JA forced a lot of coaching changes on Lovie so clearly he felt things weren't going well. Point is that in the event Lovie doesn't get it done this year did JA and Ted Phillips plan things this way so there was enough cash available to buyout Lovie and his staff and hire one of the two or three big name coaches (Holmgren is out there too). Maybe that's assuming too much forethought. How about this way: I know the Cutler deal wasn't part of any plan but the way it has ended up did it open the financial door to firing Lovie after this season if we want to? Have we exchanged player bonuses for the opportunity to hire an elite head coach?

Lot's of thoughts here. Can't see anything Philips has done wrong. If you want to blast him for giving new contracts to Lovie and JA after our Superbowl run go ahead but I think that was the right thing to do. At the time so did everyone in the media. How would the Bears organization have looked in the eyes of FA and future coaches if they didn't give Lovie a new contract after taking a team from 4 wins to the Superbowl with Rex Grossman? Philips main job is to manage revenue streams, not to manage the football team. In that aspect I think he's done a great job given how much more money we've allocated to players in signing bonuses under his leadership. That money isn't going out the door if it doesn't come in the other door first. Clearly the first part of making money is to have a successful product on the field. In his tenure we have done that and our record proves it, I can't see how you fault the history. However, now that product is declining so what to do going forward? If you want to argue about if the money went to the right players then that's on JA. Lot's of good arguments on that subject. If you want to argue that talent is on the field but not being developed properly and use past player's success on other teams as proof there's plenty of that to go around too. That's on the coaches. If you want to argue that the players are all working hard but the schemes are bad then that's all on the coaches. Lots of good examples of this too. At this point I'd like to see a new head coach because I feel Lovie has lost this team. However, I don't think he has any blue chip talent anywhere on the roster. Given his salary I fully expect Lovie to be back next year for his do-or-die scenario. Lovie will remain the DC as this represents a cost-savings for the team. I can't recall if Babich took a paycut when he went back to LB coach. Two years of not paying a DC offsets cutting Lovie a year early so that makes the McCaskey's more in line with the potential firing. I expect Turner to be gone. I have no clue who replaces him but it's definitely likely it will be someone who will take a modest contract to get what might be a one year shot to show the league what he can do. Expect the contract to be for 2 years so they are guaranteed some extra cash. Despite that, it's a hell of an opportunity. He'll get to work with some good talent (not to be confused with great) at the skill positions from Cutler, Hester, Olsen, Knox, and Forte. Oline is where we need to rebuild but I think Beekman is going to be a good player and has the quickness to be our next center. Williams should be better as our LT and he only has 9 games on his resume so the arrow is still pointing up for him. Arizona went to the Superbowl with Mike Gandy as their LT so it's proof not every spot on the roster has to be elite talent. I don't view this as a job we couldn't fill with some decent OC talent, either a guy on the upswing or downswing of his career (i.e. past HC who failed there but was a good OC). To save money JA will insist on several existing assistants remaining under contract, I just hope the Oline coach departs with his buddy Ron. There's always some talented young coach who just wants an opportunity to show what he can do. We just have to find him. I'm going to throw a new name into the future Head Coach discussion: Jim Harbaugh. I know few watch Pac 10 football but he's done a great job rebuilding the Stanford program on both sides of the ball. He has enough NFL experience to understand the league. He won't be on anyone's radar this offseason but I think by next season he'll be getting more press coverage. What I see happening

It was all bad on offense tonight. I don't care about any little small things that were positive. Protection and run blocking was bad all night. It all starts up front and everything else was down hill from there.

I highly doubt Lovie will get fired due to the high salaries and two years left on his contract. As for Ron Turner I also think we'll keep him next year for the simple fact that it will be tough to find someone decent to come in as OC when they know it'll likely be a one year deal with Lovie on the hot seat.

Denver Broncos are a good football team with a quarterback. Chicago Bears are a football team with a good quarterback.

Whisenhunt clearly stated after the game that Tommie Harris did them a big favor by getting kicked out of the game. I don't think Harris is that good, at least not like he was pre-injury, but I have to agree that he clogs up the middle and move laterally toward the ball better than any other DT we have right now. I don't even know when Harrison is on the field, he just disappears. His training camp suspension was not because he was over weight it was because he was out of shape. I just think they spun it like it was a weight issue. It has to be a lack of conditioning and strength that killing Harrison, or he's just not motivated because we know he was capable of getting a push up the middle last year. Whatever the reason he's not getting it done on the field so we might as well get Gilbert out there so he can get some reps.

I have 8 more weeks of this mess to get through, at least let me dream until then.

It's becoming clearer that Lovie has lost this team. I can't put it any clearer than that. There are just too many errors out on the field in terms of execution and at some point you stop blaming players and have to look at the leadership they are getting. While I don't think we have great talent, we do have enough talent to stay on the field with a team like the Cardinals. I've watched a lot of Cardinals games and their Oline is not that good yet we made them look great. There is just no passion coming out of these players and this is a game that can only be played well with passion. Hello Bill? Yeah, it's Jerry Angelo, listen, about next year....

I read a post from another board where they proposed putting Williams at LT and Shaffer at RT with Pace on the bench. It won't happen now but with this season rapidly going down the tubes it should happen at some point.