AZ54

Urlacher isn't anywhere near as fast as he used to be. A couple years ago I was intrigued by the idea of moving him to S but at this point in his career I don't see it happening. If we did move him there I don't think it would be beneficial to the team.

People are reading way too much into the nuances of how guys act on the sideline. Tillman looked defeated and distracted? Based on which expert? I appreciate all feedback from everyone on the board, especially first hand from the games like Jason gave. It is interesting to note but if you aren't there talking with Tillman then you really don't know what he's thinking or talking about. Here's a thought: Maybe he wants to B-slap Matt Forte for not holding onto the football on two consecutive plays at the goal line? For sure that affected my demeanor! One more thought on accountability. When Beanie Wells fumbled twice in a Cardinals road game, including one near the goal line, he was pulled from the game by Whisenhunt. Afterwards he was given a football by his teammates and told that he wasn't to put it down until he got home. He arrived in Phoenix and got off the plane carrying that same football. Message sent. We need some of that. This thread started with a post about sitting some players. I think there is some merit to it but let's do that based on performance on the field not on the bench. I am still surprised at the continued bad sentiment about our defense. I think they are doing a good job with very little elite talent. I do agree that Lovie or someone should have called a timeout to get setup against the no-huddle offense they ran. However, Lovie freely admitted he was wrong on that at the post-game conference. Roach was totally lost on those play calls but he's inexperienced and overall I think he's doing pretty good at a position he rarely practiced before two injuries put him there. Hunter is better at the play calls so I am quite certain Hillenmeyer will be back in the middle for us if he's healthy this week.

I think the right move now is for Lovie to take charge and fire Harry and put Turner on notice. If this crap continues I agree in firing Turner too but I think that's best done at the end of the season. If Turner refused to fire Harry then they can both walk now. The question is, who would take over if Turner is cut loose? For sure we all agree Harry is out too, or at best not worthy of any promotion. We have left: Pep Hamilton QB coach (no background besides QB coach) Tim Spencer RB coach (nothing but coaching RB) Darryl Drake WR coach (virtually no backgroudn besides WR coach) Rob Boras TE coach (UNLV OC for 3 yrs, 1 yr head coach at Ill Benedictine College, otherwise coach OL/TE Luke Butkus Oline ass't (maybe he can bring some more attitude?) Charles London Offensive Ass't (never heard of him) or the wild card Dave Toub who I think is the single best assistant coach on our team but his background is primarily special teams and some defense.

I've been through too many seasons recently with our Oline under-performing and after last nights game I'm done with it. Last year Lovie made a lot of changes but he forgot one and left this guy in place and that's because he's Ron Turner's buddy; came over with him from Univ of Illinois. I called for his head last year when he was whining about how the fans don't know what's going on and the Oline played poorly. He basically said they weren't that bad. I think it's clear he doesn't know what's going on or his standards for success on plays is extremely low. Fans, including those on this message board, continue to say we have poor talent but we keep throwing guys into the mix and NOBODY ever improves or stands out. I see other teams with average Oline talent that doesn't look as bad as we do play after play. Maybe those teams have occasional mistakes, but we have a consistently under-performing Oline. We can make some changes on the Oline but we can't fire the players. Doing this would send a clear message to these guys and I think that needs to be done NOW. ******************************************************************* http://www.chicagobears.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=9 The offensive line has been the most experienced unit on the Bears roster over the last couple of years, led by 11-year veteran and six-time Pro Bowl C Olin Kreutz, who enters the 2009 season having started a team-high 102 consecutive games. ********************************************************************* EXPERIENCE YET WE SUCK? Do what we did with the DBs and fire the college-background position coach and bring in a guy with a solid NFL resume. I don't care if it is the middle of the season we need some accountability.

Too early for this to be a must win. I'm not that impressed by the Vikings 6 wins. The Packers they beat outright but beyond that the two good teams they've played in Baltimore and 49ers they should have lost to. Beating Cleveland, Detroit, and StLouis aren't impressive victories especially getting these rebuilding teams (Det, StL) early in the year. They are a good team capable of beating any team but they are not a dominant team to worry about. By the way I feel the same about Baltimore, as their offense improves their defense declines proportionally. For us a victory tonight would go a long way to showing that the Bears are for real and are improving. I'm looking forward to this challenge to see where we fit in among the better teams.

That's exactly how I see it and I don't expect we'd get a better player than Gaines at that spot. You might get an equivalent player but I'll take the risk on Gaines' upside.

I like this move for a couple reasons. First, he's got the raw talent to excel at this position and we have the coach who should be able to get that to show up on Sundays. The upside has Gaines at a Pro Bowl level. OTOH I don't think the downside is going to be worse than what we have right now among our DEs. I don't see us finding a player with this much talent in the second half of Rd 2 in the draft. Second, this gives us multiple options in FA moving forward to fill the third DE spot. It might force Ogunleye to accept a lower contract for a part time player if he wants to stick around. At his age I think it's reasonable to sign him to a mid level contract somewhere between starter money and backup money as long as we can get out of it easily in a couple years. The Bears are good at these contracts (See Tommie Harris). If that fails Anderson is still an option but despite his improved play I haven't yet seen enough from him to feel he's a solid part of a 3-man rotation. Or we can go out into FA to pursue a player to fit into the rotation. The unknown here is where the Bears decide to play Gilbert. It's possible he becomes the third man in our DE rotation next year. I don't think so and this move makes it seem more likely that Gilbert becomes the heir apparent to Tommie Harris. Bottom line is we picked up an elite talent who is underperforming but who should be at least capable of performing as well as our current DEs. In exchange we don't have a lot of money committed to what is typically a high dollar position thus freeing up money to go after some other marquee players in FA. Of course Cutler will get a new contract but we'll be able to go way beyond that. It's too early to predict FA but even if there aren't any marquee players available JA could use the space to bring in better depth in the secondary, WR, DT. Oline.

JA said he was changing that aspect (taking players w/ injury history) in the draft this year and he lived up to it, at least until the later rounds. I think it's ok to take a flyer like that because most of the players there have a low ceiling. Why not go after a guy or two with a higher ceiling especially if you already have a good team? Otherwise you tend to end up with mostly practice squad players. You do find the occasional Afalava in there. Knox didn't have injury history but he too was a clear risk/reward type. It will take a few years to see if the new approach proves to be better but so far this year I think it's been good.

When JA cut Benson part of the logic was his affect on the locker room. The guy had never earned any respect with his teammates here. That was part of what he had to build during that critical offseason along with the other aspects. I don't recall any players being upset at losing Ced, it was much more don't let the door hit you on the way out. Football is a team sport and regardless of talent guys have to fit in enough to bring cohesion on the field. For all his talent why has T.O. been cut so many times? I think Ced's issues with is teammates fell in the same category.

I understand your logic in requiring DA to fill in for Davis on special teams but I don't view that as entirely correct. For this discussion I think we can leave the FG unit out. Then we are talking about 4 phases: returns both KR, and PR, and coverage P, and K. KR: Knox has already proven to be capable of KR, and in terms of having a couple extra hands guys out there we also have DManning, Hester, and Wolfe who are consistently active. I don't think Davis is a key blocker in our scheme so I don't see the need for him here. PR: It's Hester's job but again Knox has done this in preseason but I can't recall him doing it in the regular season. We've also been successful with Bennett and I think someone else successfully returned a punt when Hester went out. Blocking the gunners is one of the roles I think Davis fills and I'll be honest I have no clue who else does this for us. This would definitely be one role for DA to fill but he has the size and speed to do this. Coverage teams: KO: We have many players who are doing well on kick coverage units from Shaw, Wolfe, Graham. Coverage hasn't been perfect for sure but it's getting better. I don't recall Davis making too many big tackles but I'll assume he's done well there. Punt coverage: This is one place where Davis has excelled. We've had others excel here too including Wolfe and Graham. Is there someone else that can handle this decently among our DBs or can DA fill in directly? I'd open that to discussion but I feel this is only significant hole that needs to be filled on special teams when you make Davis inactive. While I think we can and should do this I'll add that now is not the best time for it. We have multiple injuries at LB that have hurt our special teams depth, and Izzy is out for a few weeks too. On top of that coverage units are still coming together. I'd wait a couple more weeks but as it looks now I'd go for it in our 8th or 9th game of the season.

In it's early years the Dallas franchise understood marketing. When the league first came out and requested teams play on Thanksgiving nobody wanted to play, at least none of the good franchises wanted to play on such a short week. Dallas jumped at the offer with the thinking that their team would be seen on national TV and they'd build more fans. As the team became successful naturally people migrated to them much like these days you can find Packers fans who don't know where Green Bay is on a map. I think it went even beyond that for Dallas, I suspect they were successful getting their games broadcast into other "team-less"markets such as Phoenix. When I went to school at Iowa State just north of Des Moines I was amazed at how many Iowans were Cowboys fans. I asked them why when the Vikings (who had success with Fran Tarkenton) were so close to the north, and the Bears (who hadn't had much success in the 70's) were closer to the east. In the south you had St Louis and Kansas City in Missouri. Most said those were the games they saw on TV growing up, and of course since the team was winning they became a fan. When I moved to Arizona in the early 90's I found the same thing, a lot of Cowboy fans. When I ask why when you have Rams, 49ers, Raiders, Chargers you get the same answer: Those were the games they watched growing up. To this day we have a lot of native Arizonans who remain Cowboy fans. At any rate this is how I believe the Cowboys built up such a big following around the country and based on that following the term "America's Team" was coined. On a nostalgic note, I was in college in the 80's and during the 85 season the Bears rolled into Big D for a game. I lived in a dorm and we had about 7 Chicagoans so naturally this was a big showdown between Bears and Cowboys fans and the TV room was packed with at least 25 people to watch the game. At the time Dallas was considered one of the top teams for the playoffs. Midway through the 4th quarter only 7 people were left watching the game and all had a big smile on their face. To this day I never hesitate to bring this up when a Cowboy fan gets a little too presumptuous about their franchise's history. Sixburgh fans will pipe down when you remind them the Bears have 9 titles and none of them required bringing their own referees. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dw...11885bears.html 44-0 Bears flatten Cowboys, hand them worst defeat 11/18/1985 By GARY MYERS / The Dallas Morning News It was not a pretty sight, not by any means – Cowboys splattered across Texas Stadium, ravaged to a degree never experienced in the team's 26-year history. Unlike the pre-season game against Chicago, which was highlighted by six fights and $6,000 in fines, the Cowboys did not retaliate. "There isn't any question we took an old-fashioned whupping," Cowboys coach Tom Landry said. "They just whipped us." For starters, Sunday's 44-0 loss to the Bears was the most lopsided in Cowboys' history. It was only their third shutout – the first at Texas Stadium – and broke a string of 218 games in which the Cowboys have scored. The Cowboys (7-4) dropped to second place in the NFC East, a half-game behind New York, which plays at Washington Monday night. Chicago (11-0) clinched the NFC Central and is five games away from the first 16-0 regular season in NFL history. "The Bears basically destroyed us," Dennis Thurman said. "I hurt, I think everybody on this team is hurting," Bill Bates said."My pride is hurt."

I totally agree, leave the rotation as it is. Knox doesn't need any added pressure. If anything I'd like to see Aromashodu get some reps. It would be nice to see an article discuss finding a way to get Rashied Davis inactive for a few games. Kidding aside, Tim Shaw is playing very well on coverage teams and that's been a nice surprise, at least for me. I hope as others get better in coverage we can bench Davis for a few games so we can get a look at DA.

That's pretty funny!

Really surprised to see the consistent positive grades in several areas that have been considered weaknesses in the past. Notably DEs and the coaching. There were only a few replies but I didn't think I'd ever see a day when there was common respect for the work Lovie, I even have to say that about myself as I blasted Lovie pretty heavily after last season. Yes it would be nice to get Jason on here to get some balance on the thread. If we get our DTs and Oline to step up we will be a very competitive team. At times I see signs the Oline is getting better but we don't have one standout player there so at their best I think they'll be average for us the rest of the year. Pace is nothing more than a stopgap and not a 2-3 year solution for us as I hoped he'd be. That will have to get addressed this offseason, or more correctly the RT spot will need to be addressed. I'm not giving up on Omiyale yet but he needs to come back from this break and start using his size and quickness to open some holes. I said Harris has improved, others disagreed. I don't think he's anywhere near where he needs to be given his cap hit but I do think he's getting more movement along the line in the last couple of games. Anyway it's like arguing who has the shinier penny, neither is worth much and so I don't think he'll be an impact player for us at all this year. I don't see anyone else coming on either and Gilbert is a solid year away but we better start investing for the future and give him some game time. The fact Gilbert came off the inactive list recently shows the coaches lack confidence in the DTs play so far. I would love to eat some crow here and hopefully Marinelli proves me wrong and gets better production out of these guys as the season moves along.

It was a 2 yard TD run up the middle. Not much different than 3rd and short as far as how a defense approaches it except there's no need to worry about anyone going deep.

For sure Toub deserves a lot of credit. It doesn't seem to matter who returns kicks or punts, we get good yards off the returns. Naturally some of that is talent but blocking and scheme is just as big a part of it. Coverage units have played well too and get better each week. I'd like to give props to Turner for scaling back what he asked Knox to learn to start off the year. Last year they forced Bennett to digest the entire playbook and it delayed his progress. Making an adjustment from that shows an ability to hold himself accountable for decisions that don't work out. Not everyone can put their ego (and their "system") aside to do that. There were many on the board that didn't think Knox would make the final roster and would end up on the practice squad.

We've got a bye week at what appears to be perfect timing to allow several key players to get healthy. After four games you have a good feel for what your team is so I'm putting my thoughts out there. Defense: CBs: Work in progress but I like the fact our corners are more aggressive at the LOS than they were last year. We still give up too many easy outs and comeback plays. With Bowman still learning on the job and Tillman still getting in game shape we should improve during Q2. Despite that we'll still going to be more of a bend but don't break style here. Depth behind these two from Vasher, Graham is not sound. Overall I'd say we're just average at CB....grade C+. S: I think DManning has played well but still is not a leading playmaker for us. Perhaps more importantly he seems to be out of his habit of making occasional critical errors. Manning also switches to nickel back and has played well there. Afalava, still learning on the job this kid looks to have a solid future. It's clear at times he still thinking a lot and hesitant but once he sees the play he arrives quickly. Payne is solid not spectular. Again overall grade is Average...grade C+. LB: Hit by lots of injuries the bench players have played very well. Briggs continues his knack for reading plays and blowing them up early. There have been lapses at times as backups came in but it seems as those players gain experience during the game, just like today, things settle down and defense gets better as the game goes on. I look forward to getting Pisa back on the field but even without him these guys don't seem to be a liability. Considering the rapid turnover I grade these guys above average and I"ll give them a B+. DT: Harris was non-existent the first couple games but slowly stepped up the last two. He's far from the playmaker he used to be but at least the arrow seems to pointing upward. I did some slow-motion replays keying on him today and he did draw some double teams and on one play had the double team and Raiola was keying on him as well while Izzy went around his man and got a sack. Beyond Harris nobody else has made a name for themselves. Adams has shown his usual solid play but nobody else has consistently shown up. Below average but improving. Grade C-. DE: Alex Brown,Ogunleye, and former disappearing act Mark Anderson clearly are seeing benefits from Marinelli's coaching. Ogunleye has 4.5 sacks, Brown 2.5, and Anderson 1. None of these guys are playing at an elite level but the trio is playing but the run and pass very well. Grade A. Defensive coaching: we've done enough to win games but aren't yet shutting teams down. I see improvement and overall the defensive play is much better than last year. Still need to see more consistency. Grade B-. OFFENSE: WR: Various players have gone from zero to hero over night, Bennett, especially Knox. Hester seems to be a more reliable target for Cutler and has made several key receptions to keep drives alive. How much is QB vs. WR, who knows but all three of them have made tough catches for us and drops seem to be lower than last year. Clearly the arrow is pointing up as these guys gain experience as well as familiarity with Cutler. Despite not having an elite #1 to draw attention they've been better than anyone expected and their numbers compare favorably aorund the league. Grade B. RB: Forte was playing tentative until today. AP actually was hitting the holes harder. Wolfe is starting to get more attempts but has yet to silence his critics (I believe he will but that can't factor into the grade). Today's game saved what was a below average to grade and brought the group up to a C. Oline: Pass protection has been improving but is not something this group can hang their hat on. That's unfortunate because the run blocking has just been bad. These guys need to come together for our offense to flourish as the weather gets colder. Grade D. TE: While Olsen hasn't shown to be an elite player like we hoped this group overall has been extremely effective in games. When Clark went out for a couple games Davis stepped in and played well. When you consider yards for the group they are average but on TDs they are at the head of the class. Overall grade B+. QB: Packer game was horrible but since then Cutler has controlled the offense and kept the team in the games. When a game-winning drive is needed he's answered the call except against Green Bay. There are still timing and route issues to work out with the WR and TE but the improvement shows up each week. Grade B+. Offensive coaching: I'll give Turner a B. He's had a lot of new players to deal with and clearly work still needs to be done but considering what he's had to work with he's done a good job. Yes, he has an outstanding QB to work with yet he also got Cutler to calm down after the Green Bay loss and play within the offense. Special Teams: There have been a few lapses on coverage but it doesn't seem to matter who returns kicks or punts we are getting big production. That credit has to go to the special teams coach. Gould and Maynard are playing very well. Gotta give Toub an A. Head coach. Lovie made a lot of changes during the offseason in the coaching staff and so far they appear to be paying off. I think he's also doing a better job of holding players accountable and hasn't been afraid to go with the best player even if he's a rookie. Everyone is looking for more consistency from both the offense and defense but given all the changes in personnel finishing the first quarter 3-1 with an offense and defense both showing slow but steady improvement is pretty good. Overall grade B.

At least they can figure it out. That's a far cry from the usual complaints where we've wondered why there were no adjustments made.

While I agree we won the special teams battle there is no way that was the sole difference in this game. Our offense played well, and in the second half the D played well too. IMO in the second half I think we managed to hit on all cylinders and it was something Detroit simply had no answer for.

I know Knox got an earful because right after everyone congratulated him a coach was in his ear jawing at him.

What is Bowman's injury? I thought he was just shaken up on the field.

They ran Wolfe up the middle again, a couple times.

Read it again: I said practice practice squad...meaning leave him at home on the sofa.

Nfol, Thanks for posting what I've been thinking the last few days. Everyone that complains that Wolfe shouldn't run up the middle never once complains about his previous 6 yard gain up the middle. It's amazing. In fact, Wolfe has been running with more power this year than last and it's been obvious on many plays. He worked on his lower body strength this offseason and it shows. While I find it totally acceptable to have Wolfe run up the middle I agree he is not a short yardage back and shouldn't have been in on that play call. What would be great to see once in awhile is our Oline open up a true hole in the middle for Wolfe to run through. He's got more than enough quickness to beat the second level and get to the third level and pick up some big gains. We just can't block for him, nor any RB.

I don't see how he makes this team better, in any way. Leave him on the practice practice squad and call him at home if we get desperate enough to need him.