Lucky Luciano

again, you (or at least i do) have to take into account not just one play, not just a few plays but the whole body of work and also that of our entire receiving core, injury implications and i am sure a few other items. i would assume our new coach address's any problems like this if it is as you say. this is not player love, this is looking at the health of this franchise over the long run. absolutely nothing as been proven with these young players as to the final quality or longevity either. if we had relied on them only this season we wouldn't have even gotten in the playoffs due to injuries and untimely drops. this young WR core needs someone to mentor them that isn't just a coach. i have been watching this team for a long time and this offense has the potential to be better than anything in the our past since the modern age of the NFL came into being. i don't want to get cute and mess too much with that to save some cap money that can be absorbed creatively.

i think you could add to this factor he is a senior voice among the WR's due to age and experience. how much is that worth bringing up short time/rookie receivers in learning the game, playing through injury and how to perform on and off the field? also in my opinion only, how does it look for this organization's loyalty to free agents that are here or ones we want to bring in? to me it sends a message that you better get a very good contract upfront. this is a cap killer anyway with FA's but if you show them it's worth coming in at a discount on an up and rising team i can't see that as a detriment. people mentioned the pats and them turning over players... i seem to remember that brady always had at least one good receiver and gronk. i don't believe they compromised on the OL either very much. if memory serves they never put themselves as a organization at risk for the next season by cutting key components. good FA's gravitated to that franchise and gave the pats a discount because it was a chance for a ring. we aren't at that point yet.

LOL.... chump

ahhhh, the troll calling someone else the troll. guess it's just for fun? just you joking? whatever dude. take your ball and go home. i'm done with you.

are you really this stupid? end of discussion. a waste of time talking to an idiot.

how bout YOU doing the work you are relying on as FACT. how bout YOU back up your mouth with facts and compare what your OPINIONS regard as the ultimate truth. i personally don't give a shite. you bring up these statements as facts like there is no other player on our roster to be used for comparrison who does this or this is the reason that his tenure in chicago is no big loss. do YOUR job and do an accurate assessment of our receiving corp and player comparisons. if he is the only player on our entire roster who takes plays off so be it. just show me or shut the F up.

ok, i have made my opinions on keeping moore in past threads. i don't have the time or resources to go through a 3 year span of his games in chicago but if this is the argument that he quits on plays or is too expensive then someone needs to do the 'receivers' comparison to realistically back up your opinions or they are just a knee jerk reaction. 1. MONEY: this is nearly a mute point with me. good franchises find ways to keep their systems working under the cap every single year. added to this is on every good roster there is at least one high paid receiver. the other 'replacement' receivers are ALL on rookie contracts. our QB is still on his rookie contract. our RB's are low cap hits. so is the savings really that drastic that we replace him? with what? the cap balance is in place for the next 1-2 years. this is how it's done. 2. HEALTH: as i stated in the past, he is tougher than nails. can you guess how many games he has missed since his time in chicago? "0" games missed in THREE YEARS. in his entire career there are only TWO games he has not played in. those were his second and third year in carolina. that makes him a CONSISTENT weapon EVERY game for a qb to count on. he has been battered and bruised and still comes out and plays to a high degree. back injuries, which if anyone knows about them, is no small deal. groin injuries that he was hospitalized after the game in washington, knee injuries plus in my opinion possible concussion from the head slams twice in a row and probably a lot more i didn't list. every one of these would contribute to onfield problems and endurance. so yea, he may take some plays off that supposedly aren't coming to him. i wonder why with all the injuries i listed above? if he screwed up that particular play so be it. a learning experience or just a result of injury conserving himself for a play designed in his direction. now for all you stat monsters out there.... give me the printout of the replacement receivers game logs. we are basically talking about dunze and burden correct? none other come to mind. odunze: missed FIVE GAMES in his 2nd season. foot injury. burden: missed TWO regular season games and limited in some others. concussion, ankle injury, quad injury. have ANY of these receivers proven they can play an entire season yet let alone at a high level? potential? yea, but not proven in the real world. 3. PRODUCTION: face it, he is a clutch receiver when the chips are down. he has good+ hands. can get open on a regular basis. he is a very good WR blocker. he can be used as a RB on sweeps. in other words he can do everything you hope a WR can do and does it well. is he perfect? no. find me ANY WR in the history of the NFL that is perfect every play, every game, every season of their career. to keep him for 1-2 years more while the other receivers and qb are on rookie contracts shouldn't even be a chore to figure out. be fair, go through the game films. did these other players EVER take plays off or slow down on routes where the ball wasn't regulated in their wheelhouse? let me know how those film studies turn out then we can talk turkey. please post your results of indepth analysis of our replacements consistant, never take a play off, results.

not sure if that would work. What if it was a 4th down pass? they would lose possession.

statman: what is the average increase in salary cap per year and the average high end salary for core players by position? every year we see cap strapped teams resigning their key players when we think there is no way possible for them to get under the cap. if they can, why can't we? screw the salary cap. that said... look at mahomes when the quality of his WR's declined to a great degree because they dumped his go to players. the chiefs WR's dropped more balls than anyone i can think of during these seasons. he relied mostly on kelse his TE. if we can't slot two or three key defensive players into our current cap for the future while caleb is in his rookie contract keeping our receiving core we are not trying hard enough. i say we keep our core of receivers and tight ends and think of how our offense would operate if we didn't and a key WR/TE is injured or has a career ending injury. we won't have the higher draft picks to replace them. also, we are not paying a RB top dollar compared to the best in the league. that has to count for something. add to this, we have a starting quality backup QB. if we couldn't get a first round pick out of him in the future i would be amazed.

now i think about it you could be right

i really don't recall. just watching farve during that freezing game was enough to know his career was done. he just huddled up on the sidlines looking like he didn't want to go back in.

it was an elite offense against our elite defense. the cold never slowed down the niners and it looked like it effected us more than them. i have to say... there was a game in soldier field that exemplifies exactly your point. in the final years of brett favre, he played in chicago on a super cold day with tons of wind. he looked like he wanted to be anywhere but on the field that day. it was the beginning of the end for his tenure in GB. it was beautiful to watch.

the weather can be a false reading. i say this as i remember the 49ers coming to soldier field for a playoff game and it effected them not at all. they kicked our ass back in the 80's

i've seen this coming for some time now. these greedy B;stard owners and corporate NFL are making this sport a pay-per-view item. they enjoy tax benefits from us but that is not enough, they want more. soon, all local games are going to be broadcast on some pay channel with the 'possible' exception of the ability to watch out of conference games just like they did with college football. all playoff games will be PPV. soon you will even have to pay to watch the SB. if something isn't done soon you can kiss watching NFL games over the air in local broadcasts in your area goodbye. below is an email i sent to God-ell and his cronie Anna Isaacson. if you agree with this write to them and your representatives in washington and even local state reps. if you feel motivated to copy and paste or revise some of the email i sent on every sports board you frequent. enough is freaking enough!!!!! EDIT: i am also going to send my displeasure to the bears and their owners who must have ok'd this crap. you should do the same. ============== support@nfl.com - Contact Roger Goodell NFL Commissioner Anna.Isaacson@nfl.com - NFL's VP of Social Responsibility How Much Greed Is Enough For You People? Roger Goodell; Anna Isaacson; This is the way you treat your fans of decades by jamming it down our throats to pay to watch the NFL? The fans that brought you to the pinnacle of professional sports you just wipe your feet on for more personal gain? If you want to turn the NFL into a cash cow for the big streaming corporations then it's ALSO time for the corporate NFL to be turned off of the taxpayers dole. $3.2 billion in federal taxpayer dollars has been used to finance professional sports stadiums since 2000. This dole is for some of the richest corporations and highest paid CEO's in the United States. Yet our tax dollars aren't enough to satisfy your/their draconian greed? The Tax Reform Act of 1986 wanted to end the exemptions for private use, including stadiums. Instead, the bill inadvertently created a loophole allowing stadiums to be backed by tax-free public bonds. It's time that loophole was CLOSED. Let the billionaire owners and corporate NFL pay their share instead of us. I know a letter/email is going out to my representatives in Washington to shut off any and all taxpayer support or funding that the NFL may glean. As for myself? I have stopped watching Major League Baseball because of the greed and stupidity. I have stopped watching College Football since they now require me to pay a cable company to watch local teams. I have watched and promoted the NFL for over 65 years. I have purchased thousands of dollars over this span of time in merchandise and game tickets. I will never purchase any Pay-Per-View venue to watch the NFL. I will never purchase a pennies worth of NFL sponsored products. I will never purchase another game ticket and I will boycott all advertisers on your broadcasts after informing them of the reason why. So welcome to the average persons cost of doing business as you float around on your yachts. Thanks for nothing, xxxxx xxxxx