Alaskan Grizzly

He's kept me relatively quiet because he's done as Lemon suggested and successfully managed games. Moreso than he's done in the past. And last I checked the Packers are already in the playoffs (?) and again contending for the NFC North title. I suppose that doesn't qualify for doing 'more with less'(?)

All excellent points IMO. Especially intriguing is your point about Cutler. As you know I've not been a fan of his as of late. But your point on him makes perfect sense. I've struggled with wanting to like him these last few years but seen too much of his carelessness and unwillingness to clean it up that I more or less convinced what we saw, in his past, was the best we'd ever get. This year, yes he improved. But to what end? He cut down on his mistakes and "managed" the games better as the season wore on. But you know what? I think we may have already had the player Cutler has become in Kyle Orton back when we made the trade. He was a pretty darn good game manager too. In fact that was his MO. It's unfortunate that a player with Cutlers ability took this long to become that consistent. I can only hope that he improves upon it next year rather than maintain or slip. I fear if Gase goes we may have seen the best we'll get from Cutler. Another point you made was about Gould. And considering what Adam wrote in another thread labeled "our wins and losses". Isn't it ironic that just a few weeks ago (and some missed bery "routine" kicks) we went from playoff contention to totally out of it? Yet yesterday Robbie hit everything anywhere from 20 yards to 50 yards with relative ease.

Sorry...couldn't resist. I second your thought.

Yes the GB victory was one season in and of itself and I'll take it despite how the rest of it went(is going). Thanks Cracker! Please everyone have a safe and most excellent holiday season!

Of this group Wilkerson is really the only 'legitimate' prized FA. Beyond that I'd focus on a player like the 'other' Marshall and secure him for ILB. We need someone good and a veteran to solidify that middle. Jenkins, I think, is serviceable and at least worthy of one more year.

Unfortunately I think having Brandon leave did more bad than good with AJ. Jeffery seems to have had his best years when Brandon was around to help motivate him. Not sure that Alshon is the type of guy to do things on his own without being properly led.

No I'd like him. Just not sure I'd give him a "healthy" (long term) without some parameters. He started the season out with a suspicious injury bug. Missed a lot of the preseason etc. Perhaps it was legitimate injuries and we've learned nothing if not that Fox is elusive when it comes to injury reports. Some said he (AJ) was angered by Brandon's departure. Maybe he's out of that slump(?) and is able to play without that distraction? He at least looks the part. I just don't want for him to become a distraction if/when he gets a huge payday.

Aside from the AJ part of this I absolutely and unequivocally agree with this proposal. That would be a damn nice Oline.

Well first off, what other choice is there? I know a resounding endorsement but if you can't answer that then well...that's where we are with Cutler. But the comparison I was making was that Fuller, although a 1st round pick, has only been in the league for two years and been under as many coordinators. (Hell he's played in two different schemes for that matter). Yet when "protecting" Cutler and what I consider inept play, a lot of you will come to his defense with claims that part of the problem is that he's played for different coordinators over the years and always had to re-learn his position. Obviously that's not the only reason for his lackluster play but for the sake of comparing the two, that's what I'm using. Yet Jason, and presumably you, are ok with considering getting rid of Fuller because he's not meeting your expectations. I'm saying, give him a chance to actually play out his contract before we make that choice. In this instance I'll lay my trust in Fangio that he'll be able to figure out what's best.

Not sure what you're referring to when you say "statistic (that is ) made up" but whatever. My view on OL is that when it comes to 1st round choices, BPA and how much return (IMHO) you can get on a skill player you can't draft OL 'just because'. The Bears have done it twice in recent history and failed miserably. Marc Colombo was another example of how our team failed miserably in drafting in the 1st round at OL. I'm personally not a fan nor convinced that is the way to go. If anything you go out and find the proven players in the postion(s) and sign them to substantial deals. Much like the Taits, Reuben Browns or Fred Millers.

A lot of this could hinge on whether Fangio and Gase return next year. Right now my money is that if anyone leaves it'll be Gase. Which could dynamically effect the offense because who knows how Cutler will perform for another OC other than Gase? But presuming both Gase and Fangio return, here are my thoughts. Cutler - yes he'll return. He has one year (?) left on his ludicrous contract before it turns into optional years(?). And from all the reports no one is going on about the QB draft prospects for this year. Forte - Would hate to see him go but could see it happen with how well Langford and Carey are doing. Especially if he plays hard ball. Alshon - Not sure I'm convinced he's going to work long term To me he's a health risk but probably worth keeping because when he does play he plays well. Bennett - F - him. Don't need him with Miller playing like he is. Bushrod - gone Montgomery - gone. Don't need him. If anything he could stay as back up to Grasu. Long - He ran hot/cold at Tackle this year. Maybe after a year at the position and some actual time in the off-season to develop the position perhaps he'll get better? I'll leave that to the experts on the team to decide. Houston/Young - Figured I'd lump them together as their paths seem to be following similar tracts. Of the two I love me some Young but we all know in his mind he's a DE (probably a 4-3 type) so will he try and bolt to a team that will allow him to play that role? I dunno, He's done well despite it all. And both he and Houston have done well considering the injuries they both sustained last year. Most times those are career enders if not deviators especially for players in their positions. SMC - Fangio likes him and sees something we all aren't seeing. Again, leave it to Vic to figure out. Rolle - Sorry, haven't seen enough to warrant his need to return. Draft a replacement. Jenkins - He was an unsung hero early on but since seems to have dropped off. Let him go I reckon...unless they really need him. Sutton - I always get he and Ferguson mixed up so that should be a measure of how much impact he has made. If I'm thinking of the right guy he seems to run hot/cold too. If he's considered a NT in this defense then if anything he's a backup to our 'starter' Goldman. Gaston has played well enough to be considered too. Porter - I like that he's managed to come back. Not sold on his sustaining his ability to stay healthy and stay on top of his game. Would be nice to have him back if he can close out the year strong. Acho - I've always been a huge fan of his. But...he's not done a lot that makes him stick out. If Vic keeps him I'm good with it. Ego - see above. Mundy - who? Where the heck did he disappear to? Thinking he won't work out due to his inability to stay on the field. The one player that really needs to be evaluated is Robbie. The guy has been so good for so long and I'd hate to see him go because he's in some sort of slump but man he needs some attention from a capable ST coach. Speaking of FIRE RODGERS NOW!

Jason, I had meant to address this line you wrote too: "Also, by your reasoning, Kyle Fuller means the Bears should not draft a CB in the first. He certainly hasn't been worthy of a first." As much as it pains me to pick on a skill player, the same could be said for another 1st rounder in Jay Cutler. Cutler has been playing in the league for what 10 years where Fuller is on his 2nd year. Cutler has yet to prove his 1st round status in those 10 years and there's still time for Fuller to disprove his draft pick. After all, Fuller did pretty well in an inept run defense under Tucker and now as the season wears on he's showing signs of life for his second coordinator. I mean you've offered that rationale for why Cutler has never reached the top plenty of times, why too should it not apply to Fuller?

Please explain to me then how the Cowboys with three of their five Olmen as 1st round picks (and to be fair Collins is technically a first round choice - so really four) and their QB has been injured not once but twice? Both times he's been put on IR. The first of the temporary type and the second, season ending. Whereas you have the undefeated Carolina Panthers with one 1st rounder. That one being the 29 year old Michael Oher. The other parts of the line consist of one 2nd rounder (Kalil), one 3rd rounder (Turner) and two undrafted dudes (Remmers and Norwell). Your subjective stats to me would be skewed by the simple logic that Olinemen are the 'make or break' of any team. My subjective take is that your 1st round skill players; for Carolina at least, are making more the difference than are the Olinemen. Those players being Newton, Ginn Jr, Stewart and Olsen. And that's just the offense.

(I know this thread is old news ... but have been meaning to respond to Jason for some time). At any rate. You do know the definition of 'objectivity' right? The way you use the word in the highlighted part of the sentence is and of itself...subjective. Objectively and using facts that are based on historical proof; Jay has sucked in the red zone. He has also had a lot of turnovers. AND many times those turnovers turned into direct scores, ergo 'pick sixes' as was the case here. Believe what you will, this particular throw was not the fault of the receiver missing a block...not completely. Take this last week's game as a prime example. Daryl Johnston, who had commentated on this (SF) game, noted in the Redskins game that 'teams are figuring out the bubble screen play' (which he specifically was addressing to the Bears after seeing them try this play very unsuccessfully against the Redskins). Somewhere between Gase not realizing this, Cutler audiblizing to it (and giving away the clues to the defense in doing so) and the receiver not blocking, this particular play at this particular time failed. Whether fair or not, Cutler ends up with the blame. Subjectively speaking of course.

Agreed. The point being that getting an OLman in the first round does not guarantee success (Carimi and Williams disproved that point). Heck, effective or no, our current OL has only one 1st rounder and he wasn't even drafted for the position he's currently filling in at. And what's more, he didn't even play the position he WAS drafted for all that long in college. BPA or skill is where you go when doing first round...IMHO. Yes Jason, that is subjective.

I'll say it once I'll say it again. Don't waste 1st Rd pick on ol. Need Safety, CB and or ILB

SHOCKER!

The Ducks RT will be a Junior next season. ?

You forgot Sweet Willie!!! The 'not OLB' DE!!!

Can't watch the game today but have seen what's being posted here and saw the first quarter and man oh man.... Looks like those that would prefer the team get a better draft pick are getting their wish.

If it makes you happy...sure.

Don't want to sound cold hearted but if it were such a distraction then he should have sat out. His wife gave birth the week prior and if anything would have been experiencing post partum depression when this took place. We don't know the circumstances of his missing but there leaves a lot to be explained according to this report: http://heavy.com/news/2015/12/kristin-cava...video-facebook/ Why is the family so 'hush hush' and that Kristin posted she was sad about missing her high school reunion when two days before was when he went missing? Inquiring minds wanna know. Brett Favre had one of his best games ever right after his dad passed away. I don't buy the distraction...

If you take into consideration how Rodgers somehow got a facemask call when the guy swiped by his face and this call was not a 'roughing the passer' or other similar call, then there is no doubt inconsistency. And if they review it and do in fact determine the guys deserves a fine then that confirms our team got screwed.

Excellent point! And yes, one that shows the sad disparity and inconsistency that is officiating this year.

And re-sign Gafford. ?