Alaskan Grizzly

I know and understand the sense of entitlement. I understand it, but don't appreciate it. If you are so upset with how the team is performing and don't like what Urlacher has to say. Don't pay to watch the game. All you're doing is enabling it. I think Mad Lith suggested a "protest" of sorts to express the displeasure expressed by many here. Is Urlacher not as justified to "call it like he sees it"? It's not like he hasn't spent his career with a team for which he is as discouraged as you are by him saying so. Just because you pay to watch him perform means you have more right than he to express your grief? The guy's a dedicated player to his team just like you (or I) are a dedicated fan. Hes pissed, you're pissed...we all are. Just because you think he should go doesn't mean he should. Do you not feel the same way about Cutler? He's called them (fans) out twice this year but I have'nt heard you say anything about his ouster.

Bravely said from the comfort of the couch in the living room.

Precisely. So if they are going to call three OPI on one guy because he stepped over the line from "chicken fighting" then how in all that is sane do they miss a blatant call against the same defender with the same receiver literally minutes later? It is totally inexcusable. If the officials were so diligent to begin with they should have been throughout. Sorry but the guy is in the Hall of Fame and that sadly does mean something. Hes played the game of QB and does understand the game probably better than most of those refs. The hit from Peppers on Rodgers was a prime example. Aikman will almost always come to the defense of QBs on calls like that and he was the first to say he didn't like the call. Again and as before if that was so "bad" a hit why (like someone else posted yesterday) half the hits on Cutler that look like that not called? Let alone a simple hand to the face early in the game. As Aikman correctly pointed out, the job of the referee in that particular interest (Raji hit on Cutler) is to be watching the QB and he failed. Bottom line, the officiating yesterday was deplorable. Even a good friend of mine from GB agreed.

Wow are the refs helping the Fudgers or what?

I'm sorry but F*ck the Packers!!!! That was a play of pure arrogance.

Go for the FG everyone wants that!!!!

That was all Cutler. Line blocked...pretty good I might add... And Hester was working to the open hole.

Although my optimism is waning ever so slight, Minnesota had to feel the same way you describe about a week ago. But as I always believe in what Coach Edwards would say; "you play to win the game".

...and Louis.

I know that "Jay knows what Jay is capable of" but in my opinion he should sit this weekend. I admire his moxie but to what cost?

Hes still being mobile and on the run in the picture in Denver. So why, if he "had" to run at Vandy and "has" to run at Chicago would you agree that his running, as part of the plays, in Denver was by design? There seems to be missing an element of logic to the timeline. Whether he has to or had to, he has a history of doing it and I still think prefers to be an out of pocket passer. And for the record, I don't think he should be playing this weekend.

I do too. And as others here have noticed (and to a degree what Balta said previously) Cutler has been handed the "keys" and not produced. Could you blame it on the oline and other factors not in Cutler's control? Possibly. But as I've said before, Cutler is an "out of pocket" passer. He has taken some hits over the years because of his affinity to scrambling. That may very well be wearing on him in a few regards both in judgement and urge to run. As I pointed out in the last game, Campbell was effectively able to put together a scoring drive by using various receivers. Did he audible? Don't know, he used Forte in the passing game. Something I haven't seen a lot of this year. Made a completion to a crossing Adams not a fumbling Davis. And sealed it with a TD pass to Marshall. Probably the only pass he made to him on that drive. The point being is I like the idea of Cutler being able to take charge when needed. He has the best perspective of what is offered as he is getting ready to set up that play. And when/if he thinks it necessary, audibilize. Worked great for Payton Manning all his years. I'm just not sure that he (Cutler) believes anyone else but Marshall can help him.

I like a "challenge": On "O" = Donald Brown, Reggie Wayne and Austin Collie. On "D" = Mathis, Freeney and Angerer. Say what you will, not "giving a crap" and all but if Jay saw this.... ...I'm fairly certain he would still scramble. He's been doing it for years and that is in his DNA.

Odds are the team will be worse than it currently is. With the defensive players currently on the roster, many are reaching the tail end of their careers (Urlacher, Tillman, Peppers) and have been in the same system. Most likely the new HC will want to implement something different in a defensive scheme. Probably not going to work as well with some of these named players. The defense will be in rebuild mode from day 1. And in all reality that is and has been the team's cornerstone for years now. And to be frank, I am of the opinion that the Offense won't be that much better even if you change out the o-line for all 1st round talent (drafted or through FA). Watch the game this last week between NE and Houston and you'll see what I'm talking about. Brady was dumping the ball in two step (or shorter) drops and didn't give the defense time to put on a rush. And the pocket formed around him was a true pocket. And if Brady needed it, he stood there...still with quick reads and passes. Sure occasionally he would be able to stand back and look over the choices but so has Cutler. I really don't think Cutler knows the defintion of pocket passing. He is accustomed to scrambling and prefers it that way. As I've said before when he was in Denver, Shannahan designed the offense to reflect that. Cutler did the same thing in Vandy. That is simply who he is.

That is the different element. As I illustrated in another thread Campbell was able to put together a decent scoring drive late in last week's game by utilizing other players other than Marshall...until the actual TD. By then the ball had been spread to a few other receivers enough so the Defense had to adjust. Now is that Tice's reading the defense and suggesting the plays with Campbell's ability to audibilize or ??? I don't think Tice is a horrible coordinator, just very vanilla.

Yes but when he does audibilize it seems to always be to the same person....Brandon. Now I understand the whole "chemistry" and "magical" (Mad Lith's word) but really, opponents aren't that stupid. They double and triple cover, Cutller throws it and sometimes...not always...makes it work. And why is it that when he doesn't have Marshall available he seems to almost always do the same seam route to Davis? Which 9 times of 10 doesn't work. Heck, Campbell threw a right "out" pattern with Adams during the last game and it worked just fine. And I believe during that drive Campbell had at least two or three other completions to two or three other receivers succesfully. One of those times was to Forte. How many times have we seen Cutler throw to Forte out in the flat this year? Hmmm.. Why would you do a play like that with your back up and not your #1 QB? Or the play to Adams when Davis would be the "normal" TE for that type of play?

I dare say that maybe allowing Cutler the ability to audibilize could be part of the issue? Especially given how often he goes to Marshall?

Gotta say I agree with Balta and TD here. Just look at the last game. When Campbell came in, did anyone notice how diverse and multi-dimensional the team suddenly became? With Cutler, most teams realize he's going to throw to BM and if not Fortes going to run. That seems to be Jays repertoire this year.

In watching the game, he looked as if he was hurting right after the run. Immediately aftewards he went to the sideline and was wincing quite a bit. Must've been enough for him not to return.

I'm down with that. In just the brief appearance Kyle Adams had it was apparent that he is heads above Davis, despite his out of bounds penalty.

In my defense, and not to be simply argumentative, I didn't start the comparison to Brady. It was presented as a comparison and I used it to illustrate why, in my opinion, it wasn't a fair comparison...not taken wholly. And rather I chose to compare specific aspects....or "elements".

Here it is, plain and simple. What was Michael Bush brought to Chicago for? And why? Then ask yourself, what has he done well at since coming to the team? That is the comparison I'm making. I realize that historically Brady has done it better for longer, and in no way am I comparing the two in overall skill set. Just that when it comes to making short yardage gains, Bush can hold his own. Don't read into it too much.

It wouldn't matter, I don't think, if Lovie got the team to the NFC championship game (like he did a few years ago) at this point. Hell I'm not even sure that it would matter if he got the team to the Super Bowl...like he did a few years ago. I'm not even convinced it would matter if the team won the Super Bowl. Most would want him gone. Reminds me a lot of folks in NY when they wanted Coughlin gone a few times, but fortunately for them he didn't. Frankly this talk of wishing for Lovie to go has gotten old. Almost each and every year of his tenure its been this way. I sense Wesson feels similar frustration and I am more of the opinion that the TEAM will do what it is capable of. They will realize that they have nowhere to go but down and will do what they can to win. At this point, I think if they display a lackluster performance....despite all the injuries...that would be more telling of who will be leading the team next year than anything. At this point all the TEAM needs is an invite to the playoffs to prove the detractors wrong.

And you can safely say that because the 4th and short attempt did not succeed. Had it succeeded, would we be having this discussion? And as I've asked, had Robbie kicked the FG and missed, would we be collectively asking why didn't we just run it? We have Michael Bush explicitly for times like that. The odds that Robbie missing a FG can simply be equated to Bush not making a short yard gain. The point you bring up about "scoring points after the conversion" after the fact is interesting because, if I understand correctly, the odds are even better. Should the team still not be able to convert another series of downs, they are that much closer to the end of the field and can try to do the FG. Let me ask this, what if during that original fourth and short play Toub went to Lovie (or however that works) and said "remember that trick play we did a few weeks ago with Podlesh? Maybe we should try that again." And the end goal was to just get the yardage, and it worked? Would people be ok with it? What if it didn't work? Something tells me we'd be having a similar discussion. With regards to having a player like Brady for the Patriots, with his history and success and converting 4th down plays. I can simply retort with (as I said before) we DO have a player like Brady in Bush....who usually succeeds in short yardage plays. And as I've said before, he didn't...this time.

"4-Robbie Gould is 21-25 for the year and fairly automatic from 32 yards" 4 misses are 4 misses. And "fairly automatic" is not completely automatic. (Gould did miss one in the 30-39 range just against Minn and made 5/7 this year in that category). And just for reference, there are places up here where the sun doesn't rise some days. Especially this time of year. Bush has not averaged less than 1.6 yds a carry this year. That was more than enough for him to convert the 4th. It just didnt happen...this time.