Mongo3451

Orton development - Maybe I am just naive (sp?), but I honestly believe Turner when he speaks highly of Orton. Doesn't mean everything he says is true, but I really do get the feeling Turner is in fact high on Orton. Turner said he believes Orton is a long term solution to our QB problems. Talked about how well his development was going prior to the injury, how the injury seemed to kill his timing, but how his timing seemed to get back to him again at the end. The reason I agree with this is, I see the same things Turner is talking about. IMO – Orton came back from his injury, playing not to re-injure. Once that creeps into your mind, things like going through your reads and instinctive timing with the receiver go out the window. It basically keeps you getting “in the zone” so to speak. If you look at Orton with the game on the line, he always seemed to up his game. (as in forgetting about staying healthy and just playing) Orton lack of deep ball - Turner seems to truly believe in the need for the big play, but also believes Orton is capable of such. He said Orton did miss on some deep balls, but went on to say it wasn't all his fault. He implies the biggest issue was a lack of timing between Orton and the WRs, also mentioning a lack of practice reps between he and the WRs. Mentions injuries, and I get the impression he means WRs, but not sure who he is talking about. "The more he’s around them and the more experience he gets, he’ll hit those. A lot of it has to do with practice. We had some guys who couldn’t practice as much as they wanted because of injuries. If you’re not throwing those things full speed in practice, it’s hard to hit them in the games." Again, I agree with Turner on this. Orton was showing good accuracy downfield prior to the injury. It wasn’t great, but good enough to keep the opponent honest. Is Wolf Sproles - While he speaks well of Wolfe, and also believes Wolf has a role in the future, he doesn't sound like he see's the two RBs are being that similar. Says that while they are similar in height, Sproles has more power in his lower body and is more compact. He does mention Wolfe's ability in the screen pass and explosion. He talks about AP getting reps Wolfe may have due to confidence in AP, particularly in regard to blitz pickup. I get the impression that if Wolfe get more impress the coaches in terms of blocking and protection, we may see Wolfe more and more phased in and AP phased out. Turner has to convince me on this one. I do agree that they are not the same player. But Turner has to show me he is able to get Forte off the field. There was another question in that interview regarding Forte’s touches being high and Turner agreed they don’t want to run his dick in the dirt. But the unwillingness to play players like Bennett, or even Williams (at guard) late in the season when the people ahead of them were atrocious lets me Turner gets locked into personnel. AP at FB - This was one of the more interesting ones, IMHO. Someone mentioned the idea of AP at FB, similar to Larry Centers. Turner called the question great, said it was a great observation, and even said it was something they have talked about. Said it is something AP can do, and mentioned the idea of a backfield w/ both AP (as the FB) and Forte as the halfback. Interesting idea IMHO. I am not sold on AP as a lead blocker, but would not mind taking a look at this. IMHO, AP would offer FAR MORE potential from the FB position when it comes to passing or handing off to the FB. Interesting question, and even more so w/ Turner saying it is something they have talked about. I think this may rely on Wolfe, and his ability to improve or impress in blocking. If Wolfe can improve his blitz pickup, and thus phase AP out of the RB rotation (and knowing how the staff loves AP) we could see AP move more to the FB position. Blah blah blah. I don’t want to find any more reason to use AP as a skill position player. He strikes fear into no-one. I won’t settle for anything less than a real fullback this year! Interesting that there wasn't much feedback on the Oline other than Williams. Maybe it's just me trying to read the between the lines too much because I think it was a big problem for us. This is the time for information and disinformation. The O-line was the weakest link last year. That being said, they played better than I thought they would. My hope is that was all left out because they feel our O is going to be prominent with the new OL additions they are planning and don't want to tip off the enemy.(Like they don't know) We can only hope.

I don't know how much Orton makes. But if we bring in competition they will make more than 2 mil.

Other reasoning is great, if there is a method to the madness. More 2nd's and 3rd's increase your odds of hitting on a keeper and is also more cap friendly. You can also throw, lack of faith in the 1st rounder you have to choose from. If it's to stockpile late round picks like last year, I will simply vomit.

Sorry to pick out a small peice of the conversation, but it being your conclusion makes it stand out to me. I don't it's so cut and dry as saying, "we need this position more, therefore the impact will be greater with player X". It all depends on what you strike gold with. The argument to add a top corner is a valid one, as it helps the whole secondary get better. I may be in the minority, but still feel if we signed Osamuhga and moved Pnut to FS, our secondary would improve exponentially.(Osamuhga is elite and P'nut IMO would be an elite FS) It would definately help the LB's play more naturally flowing to the LOS vs backpedalling to compensate for an inferior backfield. Would that be more beneficial than a good pass rushing DE? At this point, hope is alive that Marinelli(with some help from Sapp) will boost the pass rush. This also includes better play from our DT's. Our scheme starts up front, but how much was coaching vs talent? Ogun is in a contract year, Brown will be Brown, Anderson is the wildcard, Harrison will be in his 2nd season and Harris should improve(if he doesn't the whole staff should be fired). With this much improvement expected, how great is the DL need vs talent elsewhere? On the offensive side of the ball, agreed, and I still say "Fix the OL 1st". It all falls into place after that. I also don't think any reciever we can draft at our slot will have an immediate impact. A veteren FA would have greater benefit to Orton, Hester and the TE's, at this point. Again, it all starts up front.

I have a feeling if you polled the people who want a receiver in the 1st, you would find the majority would trade our 1st for Boldin in a heart beat. I think what you are running up against is a large contingent that thinks there are greater needs than reciever in the 1st or simply better value with other positions of need. I would go out on a limb and say I would rather have OL, DE or CB before WR in the 1st. (those positions are more of an immediate premium and feel that any reciever we bring in will suffer until Orton gets the time he needs to throw) That being said, I wouldn't complain if we got Boldin with our 1st, as it would be a great question mark erased. In conclusion, it seems to be apples and oranges.

It may be damning, but it's no logical reason for trading down. Could you imagine the loser mentality of a GM to think that? I shudder... LOL

Not to mention that Jerry Jones is the new Al Davis. That was a toooo huge of a trade for Roy Williams.

I think you are confusing disconnect with disfunction. Disconnected is where they are not working together for a common cause or simply disagree how to go about things. Disfunctional would be they are trying to work together and think things are working when they are not. JA has no reason to bully Smith when it comes down to on the field descisions. It is simply not his job. Lovie is in charge of the players and coaches. JA is in charge of getting the players and managing the cap. I do think that JA doesn't have the authority to fire Lovie without the approval of the family. We also need to be careful what we wish for. With the way the family like to go cheap with new coaches and GM's, we could be in for a roller coaster ride if we are looking for new leadership next season. For every John Harbaugh, there is a Bobby Petrino.

Turner wasn't speaking about any one particular player, especially, the QB. That's the difference. I'm sure they have all evaluated the season by now and placed a stamp on the path forward. JA was just lighting fires and blowing smoke. The whole DM thing... I can only pray he's not serious.

Love that post! 100% spot on. As far as a disconnect with JA and Turner, I really don't see it. Remember, we can't believe a thing we hear from the coaches and GM this time of year. Another point would be that coaches are never going to let on anything but confidence in their players, especially important with the QB position. Lovie and Turner are saying the right things.

That would fit the Bill Polian mold. I would love for JA to be more Polian-esque. It helps keep the cost of the Colts defense down, while pipelining them with fresh bodies. However, Polian throws in a lot of high picks on offense, with the majority going to D. Where JA beats Polian is that we always have money to sign our own and free agents. That's another hot button topic.

My Dad always said "you wish in one and shit in the other and see which one fills up 1st". No way he gets a new deal this year. I wouldn't feel that way if he were starting material. IE: Des Clark

I'll take the one of the two that has no drops, blocks well and converts the most 3rd downs.

If Oher falls to us, I would not be able to contain my excitement. Not only would he be a great RT, he would be valuable insurance if Williams falters. With that excitement comes great concern, because I don't want an OT that takes plays off, as that will be gameplanned against. Our QB and RB are way too valuable and that will wreck them both in the NFL. Next I would take Vontae Davis. If he could break even with Tillman, we could move Tillman to FS and still have money to sign Peppers and an OT. I have been and will stay on the "Tillman to safety" bandwagon, as he'll have more opportunity to make plays on the ball.

Here's where I made that comment... HERE’S A “REAL” ALL-PRO TEAM Posted by Mike Florio on January 16, 2009, 4:58 p.m. We’ve been complaining a lot lately about the manner in which the AP postseason awards are regarded as the gospel truth. So instead of continuing to complain about that (we’ve moved on to bigger windmills made of sturdier materials), we’ll instead offer a more reliable and credible All-Pro team. Courtesy of our friends at Sporting News. The Sporting News All-Pro team was compiled not based on 50 reporters and broadcasters who might think that James Harrison is an inside linebacker or that Chris Johnson is worthy of being the MVP but not one of the best two running backs in the game. Instead, Sporting News relied on the votes of 664 players, coaches, and General Managers. The list is right here. http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=507783

I am amazed at the broad range of players that our board has chosen. These are type of responses that inspire hope. Can one position coach make that much of a difference. I guess it depends on how bad the predecessor was. I also like the Sapp connection. It always helps when a HOF caliber player comes in and lends a hand.

You know JA made the QB comment. Now, he is clarifying with support of Orton. That leads me to the mind game. Since we already know the Queens are going hell bent for a QB this off-season. Is JA setting up a bidding war so the Queens will run out and overspend for a QB? Kinda like a bluff in poker... Even though the Queens get their guy, they also get a strained cap for other needs. Hell, I'd do it. I still see us going after backup, but a stud seems outta line due to our support players not being up to snuff.

Man, I bet Carolinas' staff feels like they are getting punched in the nads repeatedly. Could you imagine having the best DE and LT in football and knowing you were going to lose one of them? LOL

I would love to add Julius Peppers. We would have the best DL in the league. We would have to cut Brown or Ogun. If our D is predicated on the pass rush from the front four, there would be no excuses. That would make it easier for us to focus on DB, WR and OL in the draft.

#54 I know the spirit of the question was intended for DL, but... So, I'll go out on a limb and say Wale. He's in a contract year and Harris and Harrison are going to free him up more. Plus, I see the ends rushing more to the inside than last year.

Just in case some idiot posts a "what about Gruden" post.

I think Derek Anderson killed Cassels' chance of getting a big trade offer. He did well considering the circumstance in which he had to take over. But, he did take the reigns of the most prolific offense in NFL history. He's such a gamble, I do agree with your wanting to give a 3rd and 6th for him. However, there is no way the Patriots let him go for that this year. Especially with not knowing the status of Brady.

Hell no! He is the biggest locker room, sideline, podium and back yard cancer any team has ever seen. He would absolutely destroy our team chemistry. When TO comes to town, plan on going downhill soon after.

I think Lovie has either thrown himself into the accountability mix or has been thrown in by Angelo. Babich has been demoted without losing his title. We don't need tar and feathers at this point. I share the same confidence in Lovie as you do. Finally Lovie has placed his head on the block. Next year is ake or break for him.