Mongo3451

The last 2 players I have seen fall this far from grace prior to the draft are Randy Moss and Warren Sapp. Both will be 1st ballot. Smith at #18 is a no brainer and would actually be our best LT option.

C'mon, you gotta find a little humor in it... I'll admit the baiting was a tad slanted, just in knowing I am a card carrying McCaskey basher. My statement almost read, "It's conclusive the McCaskey's are..." The 1st word that would have popped into everyone's head would have been "cheap". (whether anyone felt that way or not)

C'mon Wesson you are thinking like a football player! Seriously, I agree. You can't teach his size and athleticism. Does he have the natural instincts to make him a football player is the big question? That's all up to game tape now. Those scouts could have been spewing dis-information to start the sh!t storm, in hopes that he does fall. To the common fan like us, he has to be dismissed because we don't have the film on him and the ability to interview. To a GM, it's an indicator of his maturity and work ethic. Talent wins out though. It always does. If a GM thinks he's a gamer, he will be taken in the 1st round.

I get where you are going with this, as far as OL early, RB later.(agreed) But, challenge the argument that RB's have greater success past the 1st round than OT's. Like you, I'm not doing the homework.

My mindset was to sign a top FA tackle and draft one in the 1st round just so the competition scenario could play out. Once again, we have penciled in an unproven 1st rounder into a starting position. Who will we place at LT if Williams fails? It has also been my contention that you can draft a player to play LT and move him to RT or an OG position if they fail. Sometimes that's not do-able due to the players skillset, but usually the LT prospect has a superior skillset to the other 4 positions on the OL which makes the gamble pay off through better odds. Good points. Agreed 100%

Ha! I knew someone would fall for my little snare. All I said was "It's conclusive!" PT Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute."

It's conclusive! Thanks for the read Madlith.

Yes, OL is the safest bet for 1st round picks. I believe the stat is 68% become starters.

Not a stock analist by any means: but I can say I'd love to average 9% in the market. I do, however, think that NFL teams have a much easier time predicting future income than any corporation I can think of. The TV contracts make up such a huge portion of the pot that the smaller pieces don't sway the overall percentage as much as Auto, Retail and Pharma. It's like they have a crystal ball for the most part. I've been loving this conversation looking from the outside. Keep up the good debate!

I agree the D sould take most of the heat. I was actually impressed with the O the first half of the season. Then the wheels fell off. I think the combination of Orton's injury and opposing defenses figuring out that our OL the patchwork at best lead to teams gameplanning better against us. I actually have some hope for the O again this season. I just need to see an upgrade at OL and WR to gain real faith / hope that we won't regress. The D better step up, period. I'm still mad at that mess.

The topic is: "Should We Just Trade for Holt?" Anyway, he's not a Prima Donna. He will suit up for any team that he feels can win. If he goes to free agency, he will get to pick and choose, not if we trade for him.

I think both are out of the question. However, it was reported that Cutler's meeting with the new HC didn't go as well as planned.

I'm struggling with this one. I think he would have great value. But how would it affect the future, Williams in particular. How do you bring in Pace and not give him a chance to win the position of LT? My overall feeling is that we should strongly upgrade our OL weather it be from the draft or FA. My preference for now would be to sign Barnes and draft a day one stud OL.

I would much rather have Barnes than St.Clair. They both are marginal pass blockers, but Barnes is a beast to run behind. We would have to pay more for Barnes, but IMO that would still pay greater dividend. That would allow us to be more comfortable with grabbing more BPA in the draft.

Agreed. See below. I don't think that's the case at all. I believe that St Clair has one option right now. He was arguably the worst starting left tackle in the NFL last year. Who wants to pay him 15 mil to be a backup. That's honestly where he will end up for us. If he doesn't then our team is not making the progress it needs to make in order to make the OL a strength. Plus there are better / younger free agents out there. Option 3: Is the ultimatum JA gave someone a few years ago. "The offer has been laid on the table. It will not increase. The offer only goes down from here." I think that was Benson.

We don't run 5-7 step drops. We overwhelmingly use 3 step drops.

I generally agree with this philosophy and stand by it. IMO - this year is an abnormality. We have gaping holes at OT, WR and safety. Free agncy could have eliminated 2 out of 3 concerns without affecting our cap space much, especially with not needing to re-sign much of our own. IMO part II, is I honestly feel we were in the catbird seat, this off season, to seriously improve on our weaknesses without having to break the bank, even though that was possible. The core is established, the fire has been lit, but I'm afraid they feel that's enough. I just didn't see the talent.

I totally agree with that philosophy. Here's the rub. After we sign our draft picks, we have 15-20 mil left. I'd rather it go toward aquiring more talent than it going to the family coffers. I'd rather sign 2 difference makers than sign 5 ho hums. I'll also go with something you brought up regarding Pitt and beg the team to spend on people who can bring the right talent in via the draft. Anything but the coffers. The McCaskeys owe the fan base more. Some of may be that I've seen too many talentless hacks have fortune and fame off a predessessor that had greatness.

oops. Sorry

Me too, I about 20 miles NE.

Kirwan is former cap guy and coach. Definately inner circle, definately reliable. I was actually shocked he was this loose lipped.

Please tell me you are offended because I abbreviated your name when replying to your post,,, It was not my intention. BTW - you misspelled spelling.

Are you saying you don't think the story is legitimate? Pat Kirwan is in the "inner circle" of people GM's will talk to. What I found odd is that Kirwan said as much as he did. Angelo will probably blacklist him for that. Just like I said in your, "Angelo sabatage post", it must be higher than Angelo. Guess what, this is close to confirmation as you are ever going to see. To Conners post: The Bears are indeed cheep, and they may rightfully have to be. The 10 mil they ratholed last year kept us out of the playoffs. They will rathole more this year as well. And you will probably never hear of them having cap issues(which is a good thing). Untill we see their P&L statement, we not know if they can afford to spend or not.