Mongo3451

That sucks on many levels. 1) You gotta feel for the kid. 2) Will he ever contribute to the team? 3) What does this do to our talent mix?

I get where you are coming from here. But, the argument is biased based on the CBA. The owners have the agreed upon right to do what they do, voted on by the players union. The players are in violation of their agreement with the team and don't have the CBA on their side if they do the same. On a personal note, I always hope that a player gets market value for their services. I just don't see it in Url's case. He has not exceeded his contract. When he signed it, it was the richest LB contract in league history and well publicized as such. I also don't see many LB's making more money than Url to this date. If the Bears have offered additional money, he needs to shut up and take it. He's taking a huge gamble by not doing so.

Just messing with you. Hope I didn't offend.

Yes to all, I can and have seen Butkus playing 20 yards deep and intercepting passes in the deep middle. Get some tape on him. Yes, he covered TE's and ran down running backs. Yes, he could play cover two, but it would have ruined the greatest force the game has ever seen. He could have played any position on the front seven and been a HOF'er.

Plain and simple, fast is fast. And no your point will never be made because it is flat out wrong. Get out of Urlachers jock and realize he could never carry #51's, period, in any defense. You give Butkus the same nutrition, medical and conditioning as Url, he's lining up with the best of them. Oh wait, they are still lining up to catch him. Hell, back then the coaches would withhold water from you in practice because they thought it would make you tougher. You did a couple of stretches and deep knee bends and you were ready to go. Science made these athletes what they are. Blasphemy on putting Butkus at Sam or Will in any defense! Who are you the ghost of Ray Nitschke? You should go on a self imposed timeout for putting that visual in our heads. Shame, shame, shame.

He's getting to the point in his career where he has developed chronic injuries. You just try to manage them the best you can. His skills will decline on a bell curve until he retires. His trade value will follow that path. Hopefully, it's not for several years.

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=39 I hope this link works for you. It's Butkus' writeup in the Hall of Fame. Please make special notes to the speed quickness and agility part. I'm getting weary of explaining it. The man was big cat. Just like Url, just nastier.

Yes and my order would be 1,2,4,3. I think AP keeps a spot because of Special Teams.

I'd hate to see the Bears trade Url, but don't view the scenario as insane. His value will never be higher and waiting only diminishes it. In his later years, you just want him to ride off into the sunset as a Bear. Agreed, you don't get rid of the face of the franchise... ...unless he doesn't desire to be that anymore.

Put down the crack pipe man. Butkus had 22 int's in a 9 year carreer. Url would need 7 this year to match that. Butkus could run. Old guys on the board, chime in!

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then...

Butkus was 6'3" 245LB (legit) and was a sideline to sideline player. It wasn't acceptable at all to run out of bounds back then. But, kinda like kicking away from Hester, teams started letting their backs run out of bounds so they didn't get murdered. Plus, for the benefit of all I looked up stats. He had 22 int's and 25 fumble recoveries in his 9 year carreer. I only wished they kept stats on forced fumbles back then. He'd probably still own the NFL record. Urlacher in eight years has 15 int's. I couldn't find fumble stats. I just know he forced zero fumbles last year. Butkus was truly the scariest most intimidating player of all time. I could only imagine what his carreer would have been with todays medical, nutrition and conditioning staffs.

Remember in a previous post in this thread, I stated that Rex is a one trick pony and other teams have figured out how to play him. What he did in 06 was a distant memory in 07. It's not that I forgot, Rex did. During the five game span you are referring to, Rex had Benson who was heating up and was still 2-3. Kyle was 2-1 with AP at RB and was almost 3-0. Rex also lost a few fumbles to Kyle's zero. I truly could care less about ratings. The stats I care about with QB's are TO's and W's.

Totally disagree on Butkus. He was a freak of nature athlete.(just like Url) He was as big as the OL and fast. That's like saying Wilt Chamberlain couldn't play in todays NBA. Singletary, on the other hand, was a somewhat a liability in pass coverage. He had the tremendous benefit of only having to cover someone for 1.5 seconds.

I didn't say Kyle was that much better than Rex. I said I'd take Kyle hands down. IMO - Kyle is a gamer and Rex is not. Rex had the full benefit of an offense tailored for his skills and the #1 reps at training camp. Kyle got 3rd string reps and no tailoring for his skill set. Kyle went 2-1 with a lineup and scheme built for Rex, without the benefit of a lot of practice time. I also don't forget his accomplishments his rookie season. Sure it was the defense that won a lot of games, but the rookie came in and kept his cool didn't lose games for us all while being thrown under the bus by his high priced veteren #1 reciever. IMO - Orton just has more sack than Rex. I simply want football players on this team. He doesn't fumble, he has better pocket awareness, he's not afraid to get hit in the teeth and finds a way to make plays when it counts. Orton has NEVER same support/opprtunity Rex has had. He ain't much better, be better just enough IMO.

I have no more hope that Rex will ever be a top 10 QB. I don't even think his skill set places him in the top 15 talent wise. What I always hoped for was for Rex to be an innovator or creator. He has proven that he can not as he continually flops if a play goes bad. Add to that, his tiny hands with fumbling and a major lack of pocket awareness, Rex is doomed. Here's the funny part: Rex is all-pro in camp and will probably beat Orton out. Rex is a one trick pony with the deep outs and posts and teams have taken that away. I'll stick my neck out and say Orton is the gamer of the two and actually made a winning record of the same crap Rex lost with. I'll take Kyle hands down. I still have playoff expectations, but only after Rex pisses down his leg, again, and Orton takes over.

Dude, that's funny! Cold... but funny.

It's also interesting that the Bears were the only team that had two TE's mentioned...

It could easily have been as simple as them handing him the playbooks and telling him to learn both because you never know where you'll be needed. I think he was considered a FS out of college with questions about his speed. But, it was genarally thought that his instincts and playmaking ability would still place him in the FS skill-set. Amen to the 1st. On the 2nd, I think they were looking for a place DM didn't suck.

Personally, my black friends would be offended if called them by anything more than friend. That being said, the scenario of her saying "black friend", implies a mutual understanding between father and daughter that there are known and agreed upon racist activities in the area. In other words, the picture of that lone word told the entire story. I live in the Indianapolis area and it is well percieved in the "black" community that a higher than usual amount of black people are pulled over after dark for suspicious reasons. They simply say, I got another DWB "driving while black". On the other hand, it could be an ingeniously crafted scenario to proactively cloud an offense that had yet to occur. I am really interested to see if there some provable timelines to all of this.

Screw Kiper and the rest of the media. I still contend that unless a GM, coach or former GM comes out and flatly calls it a reach, it is not one. Forte in no way shape or form is or was considered a reach by the majority of this board and the talking heads that provide us entertainment. I'm sure if GM's were polled on the subject, hardly any if any at all would call him a reach.

I have a feeling charges will be dropped in this case.

They have even spoken of cough cough Metcalf being in the mix, saying he played with a broken hand. I tend to think they confused his hand with his hymen. Seriously, Metcalf is considered a power guard and hand punch is crucial at times. He still doesn't cut it with me. No way Steltz does anything at FS. My secret thought is that they drafted and will be grooming Bowman to play FS. Good size, great speed and leaping ability with the added of bonus as being a player with natural instincts.

You are lucky you prefaced with this! LOL Don't make me school you on the Freeney argument again...

Forte was not considered a reach.