nfoligno

One. Please to not pretend it is nearly as black/white as you want to make it seem. Lt2 and I have argued w/ you many, many times over the years regarding your belief that money spent on players, including bonus dollars, is not a sign of whether an owner is cheap or not. You have staked your position in the sand, and we have ours. I am NOT looking to get into that discussion today, but the simple fact is there is nothing so factual, or absolute. So please do not pretend your position is so absolute, and we all are so ignorant in our different opinions. Two. As you (I think) say below, moving past our argument about player salaries in normal business years, this is an uncapped season, and thus out of the norm. I believe I recall you some time back saying you would give credit to the owners if they spent big in FA this year, and uncapped year, as you fully expected them to not only be a "player" in FA, but expected them to be among the group of cheap owners who would take advantage of the lack of a salary floor. So where's the props to ownership. Rather than come on here and give credit where it is do, instead you try to ignore the recent actions of our owners and focus on your argument, and how it relates to normal business (salary cap) years. Come on Lucky. There is no real argument against the ownership being cheap right now. give up some credit here where it is due.

The talking heads, however, don't stay current or just plain get lazy. RB was not a high need, but it was, like most positions, one that could be upgraded. It's just that my philosophy is to fix the completely broken before the undesireable. I understand that, but at the same time, you work within that which is available. This is a really bad group of FAs for the OL. On the other hand, it is said that OT is one of the best and deepest positions in the draft, and the draft as a whole is considered better and deeper than any in years. You know I am with you in regard to working on the OL. But at the same time, I don't want to add some OL to plug the hole if he isn't that good. I would rather focus on the OL in the draft if that is the case. Look at last year. Do you really want to go out and sign another Omiyale, just to say you did something? Heck, I hope we do avoid OL in FA as the options appear weak, and further, if we sign a veteran OL, it lessens the odds Angelo will focus on the OL in the draft. He doesn't need much of an excuse to avoid OL on draft day, and signing even a spare OL in FA is just enough excuse for him to pass on OL until the 6th or 7th round. FS is the only position I think it fair to question going after other positions before, but I would point out that only Rolle has been signed in FA, while Sharper, Atogwe and others are still available. Just because we signed Taylor doesn't mean we have taken a pass on FS. It may simply be a matter of Taylor was an easy, quick signing, while the FSs needed time to feel out the market first. Angelo is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If, after Peppers, he focuses only on FS, which may take time, while not even considering other needs, even those which are lower, then he gets attacked for not being able to multi-task. At the end of the day, let me ask you this. If we now sign, for example, Atogwe to an offer sheet and get him, then draft OT w/ our top pick in the draft, are you not happy. We would have then filled our top needs (DE, FS and OL) while also improving the team w/ Manu and Taylor. If we said we don't have the money to sign a FS now after Taylor and Manu, then I would be more inclined to agree with you, but if it is simply a matter of signing those player first, while still getting the FS we need, I have no issue.

I am just so torn as to Sharper vs Atogwe. In Sharper, you do not have a player who is going to give you a high level of play for many more years. Frankly, at his age (34, will be 35 by mid season) his downturn could come at any time. I also personally have one other concern. You look at Sharper's career, and it is pretty impressive. 8 impressive years with GB. 4 with Minny and the 1 with NO. After signing w/ Minny, he initially looked great, but his play seemed to go down each year. He was still considered solid, but no longer a big time player, until this past year in Greg Williams scheme. I do fear some that his recent return to greatness is more about his fit in that scheme, and if we signed him, he could look more like the player in Minny, who finished his last year there with low numbers in most categories. At the same time, even if he was only a solid player, he is a leader who could elevate the play of others around him. Even if he is not the stud he was this past year, his experience and leadership could elevate the play of our secondary, which has two young starters (Bowman and whoever starts at SS). Then there is Atogwe. I have to admit, I have no idea about his leadership ability. I have never read about him being considered a great leader, though that may simply be due to playing an a dreadful defense. But the point is, this quality is more of an unknown compared to Sharper. On the other hand, he is only 28 years old, and only has 6 years of wear to his name, compared to Sharpers 13 years. In Atogwe, you would not be looking at a short term fix, but a long term fixture. Atogwe's best years in Stl came when they played the cover two, compared to more recent when they shifted to a different system. This is the opposite of Sharper, who didn't seem to play at his top level in our system. At the end of the day, I would be happy with either, but if I were to choose, I would take Atogwe. While he may not bring the leadership Sharper would, he would be a long term fixture at a position we have not seen solid play at for a long time. Further, the scheme aspect is a big concern, and I think Atogwe would simply be a much better fit than Sharper.

Agreed and agreed. Agreed that we will allow a competition for Forte. He has never really had one since he was here. I mean, as a rookie he competed with AP. 2nd year there was no competition. Coming off a season like last year, I see nothing wrong w/ some competition. With that said, I too think he wins the job and is the 1a back. I really think fans need to look back to last offseason. There were far greater expectations/plans for Kevin Jones than what fans today seem to remember. In Forte's rookie year, he ran the ball a lot, and the team was making a HUGE issue of lowering his number of carries and making KJ a bigger figure in the system. He was not just depth, but was supposed to play a legit role. So last year, we were supposed to have a form of a 1a/1b situation. Yea, 1a would have considerably more carries, but 1b was going to get plenty of carries regardless. Never happened, but today I think fans talk like the idea of Forte sharing carries is a new thing. It's not. In Taylor, you have a player similar to how KJ was envisioned last year, only better and a better fit for Martz system. Also agreed on workhorse back vs committee. I will say that to run a multi-back set, you need a coordinator capable of knowing how and when to rotate your backs, and you need backs that compliment each other. Just having two RBs doens't mean it will work. At the same time, I like this over the single back system. Sure, as a FF owner, I want that workhorse, but just look at what happens to those workhorses. Their careers seems to lessen by years. I mean, you have a great like Tomlinson who is done, and far sooner than many would have expected. This year, he fought with injuries all year, and I should point out many (including myself) predicted a bad year due to his high carries last year. Something to think about, as you (Jason) said you still believe in a 30 carry RB. That is 480 carries if that player starts all 16 games. A bit of research was done a while back showing how much of a dropoff RBs see after a season w/ 380 carries on the year. Give or take a couple, but 380 seemed to be the indicator of a bad season to come. Its sort of like talk of hitting the 30 year old wall. Some like TJ do well after, but when you look at the whole, it is pretty scary just how fast a RB goes downhill at 30. Those who do well aftre 30, how much of the reason is due to few carries previously in their career, like with TJ. By the way, for the record, 380 on the season is just under 22 carries per game. Just think about that. I think most would agree 380 is a really high number on the season, but I don't think many realize how little it takes to get there. I love the idea of a RB who gets 18-20 carries a game, which is a lot, and a 2nd back who gets 8-10. You still have a #1 RB, but at the same time, you are doing a better job of keeping him fresh and not wearing him out.

Yea, I have started to wonder if we won't add a WR. Not a veteran of the level of Holt, who you could simply not sign and push down to the back of the depth chart, nor an upper tier FA. But I can see us signing a WR like Baskett. Not saying I want him specifically, but... Look at Martz system. He loves to use 3, 4 and hell, even 5 WRs. We barely have that many WRs on our roster today. A player like Baskett would cost us the minimum. There would be zero guarantees given to him. He may not even make the roster, and if he does, could end up the 5th or 6th WR. Or maybe he pushes his way up to 4 or so. Again, we are going to run a very different system. I mean, just think about last year. DA couldn't get into games because we would only activate 4 WRs on game day, and 1 was a special teams specialist that wouldn't play WR. So we really only had 3 WRs on game day. That is a pretty big difference from what we will have with Martz. I have no real opinion of Baskett, but he is not going to really cost us anything, so where is the harm? At the end of the day, all his addition may be is a replacement of Davis, and sorry, but I want Davis gone.

Or maybe they were simply not impressed with his running this past season.

Again, I just wonder though about the injury factor. He was coming off injury, and that usually leads to players not being able to be dedicated to the weight room. Either way, I will worry when I see him showing up to mini-camp and camp out of shape, ala Marcus Harrison. Not when there is rumor of his being out of shape in early March.

Agree 100%. From what I read, the staff was really impressed with the development (obviously in practice) of Louis. They love his size and athleticism, and how that can translate to OL. I get a bit tired of trying to develop players at so many positions that they never seem to develop at any one. Pick a position, and develop the kid there.

Anything is possible with this new staff, but I still have to wonder if we won't look at adding a WR to the mix (late draft). Martz loves WRs. As I said in another post, Martz lines up more WRs than we would have active on game days.

In a Martz offense, I think it possible we could dump the FB, but at the same time, I wonder if Martz wouldn't rather keep another WR. Martz likes to actually use more WRs in a formation than Turner would have active on game day, especially when you consider our 4th active WR was a special teams specialist.

You mean, eventually, after drafting WR after WR, one was bound to be as great as expected. Also helped getting rid of a staff that just didn't work. Scary part is, we seem to be trying to hire them all, but at least we didn't get the guy who drives around naked.

I would say: OL, DL and FS were pretty consistently considered our top needs. After this, I think you really get a spread of opinions. You, for example, felt RB was a pretty low need, but I think most would have argued Wolfe, Belle and whoever else just are not enough, especially when there are questions surrounding Forte. WR is similar. I am with you in that WR was a very low need. Others don't see the potential, or just simply feel all that youth would be better with a veteran to lead them. At the end of the day, I am thrilled that we fixed one of the top tier needs. I am hopeful we fix another (FS) before the draft, and the third (OL) in the draft. By the way. I would put CB in the list of needs, probably right after DE, FS and one OL.

You will not get an argument from me about what precise route running can do for WRs. W/ that said, and while I am sure Austin did work on his route running, but think the bigger key was simply being given a chance. W/ Roy and TO (not to mention Witten) several young WRs were simply burried on the roster two years ago, and it was only after TO walked that Austin was given a chance. A WR can run all the great routes he wants, but if he isn't given an opportunity, does it matter? Sort of like how Bennett was held back due to Booker and other worthless veterans. Or somewhat like Aramashadu. No veterans holding him back, but instead a coach. Sometimes a receiver just needs a chance.

I still simply have to question the report. He reports the team isn't happy Forte spent so much time at Tulane, and that puts a very negative shadow around Forte, but then to read Forte was trying to complete his education puts a very different spin on the situation. Further, he makes no mention, or gives thought, to Forte coming off injury and players coming off injury are not often able to keep up the same offseason program. Now, if he made a comment about the team not being happy because Forte was skipping his rehab assignments or something like that, it would be different. I just think many are looking for something that may not be there. Report aside, we all felt we needed to add a RB. We had an issue w/ depth, just allowed AP to leave, and Forte playing through injury highlighted the need for depth. We added a RB who can be depth, can serve as a compliment as Kevin Smith was expected to, and is a solid fit for Martz system.

Disagree. Manu is a big-a blocker, but he is still a TE, not an OG, despite his size. I do not believe we would replace him, if we have to, by moving an OG into his TE position. I agree you would see a drop from Manu to Davis, but you usually see a drop when you replace a starter. Davis may not be his equal, but is supposed to be a good blocker. It would be different, but regardless, I just don't think we try to use an OG at TE. You could be right about us liking Louis at guard, but you're way off about Kellen Davis being able to replace Manamumla (sp). Mana is an offensive guard who is listed as a TE and catches the ball 10 times a year. He's 6-2, 296 lbs. That's pretty comparable to: Lance Louis: 6-3, 305 Josh Beekman: 6-2, 310 Garza: 6-2 310 Kreutz: 6-2, 292 Compare that to our TE's: Olsen: Olsen, 6-5 255 Davis: 6-7, 262 Clark: 6-3, 249 There's no way in hell Davis can do the job of Mana. We might draft a guy to back him up, but considering it was rumored we'd move Louis to TE previously, I think it's a possibility.

Regarding Urlacher, I say it because that is how I think Lovie would like to use him. Lovie has said he believes Urlacher is a 5 and 5 guy (sack/int). Urlacher's assignment is often the RB, and if that RB stays in to block, that frees Urlacher up more and often he will use that freedom to blitz (delayed). I don't think the WLB or SLB blitz much for us. Briggs has never really been used as a pass rusher, and I have never seen us really utilize our SLB that way. Roach or Hunter will be sent on occasion, but not often. In the end, Harris is simply still a key. Even if Peppers does well, Harris needs to provide that 2nd pass rush. Further, if we have both an inside and outside pass rush, that makes the pocket close fast and QBs will not have an easy time avoiding one rusher if another is coming from a different area.

Could be wrong, but I think the main reason for unlikely to be earned incentives has to do with the salary cap. No cap, no reason for that incentive language. I suspect he has incentives that are very likely (play 10 games or equal number of sacks) as well as incentives like Super bowl MVP. I don't expect him to have many incentives along the lines of (rush for 1,000 yards).

I think this is spot-on. What you see is what you get with Brown: he's a solid all-around base end. He plays the run pretty well, he applies steady pressure in the pass game, but he doesn't actually get to the QB that often. He always has a fairly high number of pressures and QB hits, but he's only a 6-7 sack per year guy. For a fourth-round pick, he's been excellent value, but I don't expect him to do anything but what we've seen thus far. He may benefit a little from moving to the left side if Peppers plays RE, but I don't think it'll be a big change. The only thing I disagree on is the comment that Brown gets consistent pressure. I don't see that. IMHO, he seems to blow up a few times a year, racking up multi-sack games w/ numerous other pressures, but otherwise does little to help the pass rush. Brown seems to always take wide angles to the QB. He always "seems" to pressure the QB, but in reality, all the QB needs to do is take a step up in the pocket to make Brown irrelevent. Now, if we start to get better play from the DTs and the QB can't step up in the pocket, those wide rush angles may not appaer so wide. I do have to say, I am curious to see how we use our DEs. Peppers has played both RDE and LDE, and I think did well at either. That I am aware of, Brown has never played LDE. It may not seem like a big deal, but I hear players talk about how difficult it is all the time. Opposite hand on the ground, pushing off w/ the opposite leg, and a totally different angle. It may not seem like much, but the way players talk, it is. I wonder if Brown would stay at RDE while Peppers plays LDE. I think Anthony Adams is like Brown on the interior line: does his job, steady player, doesn't really have room to break out. I expect him and Brown to keep on doing what they do, even with the addition of Peppers. I'm not expecting anything from Marcus Harrison until he shows up in shape, and Gilbert/Melton are total unknowns. So I think you're right: it's all on Tommie. Assuming that Peppers will draw a lot of double-teams, Tommie's going to have to prove that he can beat single-blocks on a consistent basis. I think he can do it, but we'll have to wait and see. In many ways, I think Harris is still the key to our defense. Even if Peppers plays as expected, if he is the only legit pass rusher teams have to worry about, he can be taken out of the game. As Dent used to always say, you need 3 pass rushers. I think one could be Urlacher, and the other is Peppers, but we need yet another, and to me, that is Harris. If Harris flops, as good as Peppers is, he may not be enough to truly change our defense. We need high level play from Peppers AND Harris, and if we get that, it could have an incredible ripple effect.

Agreed all around. I don't think the moves they have made are great, but they are the sort that could help a team form a solid base. Also agreed that, while they are a divisional team, I prefer to have all in the division respected, rather than one team being so bad is tanks the rep of the whole division. Then again, it has been so long since Det was any good that it doesn't mean as much to me. If we were talking about GB or Minny, I would not have a problem w/ them being horrible, even if it hurt the rep of the division.

No one is arguing that. Sure it would be nice to have a proven stud at WR. Who wouldn't want that. But it is a matter of priorities. Look at FS. Not only do we lack a proven stud, we lack even a player who offers much hope. We saw the OL last year, and while some aspects could help, I doubt many have too great of hope/expectations. CB is looking pretty weak as well, and flat out pathetic in terms of depth. Few would argue a veteran stud would be nice to add to the mix, but even w/ the new free spending mentality of our owners (can't believe I just said that) there is still only so much money to go around. At WR, we lack a proven player, but have several players who have shown solid capability, and further, offer far more potential and hope than we see at other positions. I go back to Dallas. They had TO and Roy Williams last year, and what young players were on the roster were near invisible as there just were not enough balls to go around. No sooner than they get rid of TO, Miles Austin explodes onto the scene in a big way. I am not saying we have Austin on the roster, but I sure would not mind finding out. Last year, the WRs we have were only less experienced. There was no prior playing time, thus chemistry, w/ the QB. We had a pitiful OC calling pathetic plays, and an OL that could not hold a block more than a split second. In theory, the playcalling, pass protection, and chemistry should be better this year. Further, the WRs have an extra year under their belt. And then throw in a player like DA who looked great, but didn't get a chance until late in the year. No, I think we look pretty good at WR. I think last year was the low side of potential, while the upside is pretty great. Hell, imagine if we can actually run the ball too. Last year, we faced consistent nickel defenses, which a run game should shred, but our didn't. No, I love our prospects in the passing game this year. The key, IMHO, is not WR, but the OL.

I thought we already signed Pisa. Seemed like it was a done deal. Shouldn't cost much at all to re-sign him if we have not and want too. I too hope the Peppers signing does something for Harris. I don't expect a ton w/ Alex Brown. He is solid, but regardless who is on the DL, I just don't think he has much upside over what we have seen. Even when Wale and Harris were playing at their best several years ago, it isn't like Brown suddenly broke out. Honestly, not sure how much I expect of our other DTs either. Harris though is the key. Peppers will get a ton of double teams, and someone is going to have to take advantage, and that someone really needs to be Harris.

Now I just have to laugh. Some NFL Network guy, in making his case that Forte was essentially blowing off the offseason, says he was spending most of his time at Tulane. The impression, IMHO, from that is of a player who was hanging out w/ college friends and having fun, but as you point out, he was at Tulane to finish up his degree. Maybe fans would rather he spend all his time in the weight room, but getting his degree is a legit reason to hang at his old school. And like you said, it was explained that he had an injury and needed surgury, right? Thus he likely couldn't do a ton of training anyway. Maybe there is some issue here, but when you consider why he was "spending all his time at Tulane" and the medical issues, the original comments seem a bit weak. If he pulls a Marcus Harrison and shows up to camp soft, over-weight and out of shape, that is one thing, but it is early March. Bit to early to rip a player for not being in NFL shape.

I read one reason he liked Chicago was he wanted to be on big city team, w/ a national stage. I doubt he was racking up the big sponsorships, which can equate to big dollars, in Carolina. You hear this all the time. Players want to move to big markets like NY, Chicago, LA etc to rake in the endorcements. Look at Urlacher, and his deals. He adds tons of cash through endorsements.

LOL. I thought about that too. I am sure he will find a spin. I can't believe the team is too cheap to sign Boldin or add a FS. Freaking cheap arce ownership.

I have not heard largest in NFL history. Maybe largest for a DE, or largest for our team.