nfoligno

From what I read, if we do plan to replace DePaul, it likely would not happen until after the draft.

I am in the same camp of thinking. It is not that I do not want to consider him, or that I do not see him as an upgrade over what we have. What we have is so pitiful that even a below average FS would be considered an upgrade. What I do not want to do though is invest heavily (upfront and long term) in a FS that is below average, or even average, and I just have not heard enough to convince me Rolle is more than that. Rolle was a top 10 draft pick, and for that reason alone, his name is pretty well known. But I think his reputation, which may still be more based on his draft ranking than field production, creates a false sense. I wonder if we were to talk to a bunch of Card fans what their opinion would be. If he is on the market a while, no better options appear available for us, and his asking price is reasonable, then fine. But the key for me is the money. Not because I fear our owners going broke, but more for football reasons. If a team pays a player a high salary, they are going to view him as a starter for a while. If Rolle is nothing more than average (or worse) I don't want to have the false sense that he is the long term solution. Short term starter, fine. But not a long term solution, and if we give him a big contract, that is what he would be viewed.

Just as a reminder, for perspective, I was bashing the crap out of Lovie and Angie when most were still in love with them. My opinion has not changed. Back to Omiyale, I honestly believe that Angelo will be looking to add one OL. We do not have a 1st round pick, and I have not heard of many (any) total studs available, I do think one of the top FAs we sign this offseason will be for the OL. I believe the staff believes that Omiyale helps provide flexibility in the above. Is there is a RT they love, they can keep Omiyale at OG. If there is an OG they love, they can move him to RT. I believe that Omiyale will likely start out camp as the starter at either OG or RT, but there will be a big difference from last year to this year. Last year, most who watched camp said Beekman looked better, and by a significant margin, but we still bumped up Omiyale to the starter role, as he is who the team simply wanted to start. But while his play at the end of the season helped his cause, his play for most of the year I believe shortened his leash, considerably. He will start out as the starter, but could lose that job in camp, whether to Beekman inside, Schaffer outside, some we add or someone else on the roster. Point is, last year I think he was a lock (in the staff's minds) to start while this year he is far from a sure thing. We talk often about Lovie, and even Angelo, but in terms of whether Omiyale starts or not, I think Tice and Martz are FAR greater factors.

Yes, but I don't think that is the case here. A greater link to insanity would be to do absolutely nothing (maybe add a 7th rounder) to the OL and simply expect them to suddently be great. W/ Omiyale, I think it is far more a matter of development. As I have said, Omiyale is no rookie, but when you consider his past experience, you can also relate him to one. You don't throw away a player who you expected to need time to develop because he didn't show instant ability. Expecting a player to further his development, especially one who did show a level of development to end the prior season, is not insanity. If Omiyale finished the year as he began, and we circled him in as our starter again at OG w/ no backup plan, then I would agree we were insane. But w/ his development, and if we have a more open mentality as to his being an OG, RT, or even depth, then I disagree with the insanity.

I am honestly not sure how much of a grudge he has with the team. Many players still on the team today were close with him and in his corner then. Also, while he didn't have the role here he wanted, he was granted his request for a trade, and the team didn't hold him captive as we have seen in situations like Az/Boldin or Carolina/Peppers. So I am not sure Angelo, Lovie or the team itself would prevent him from coming here. His role here however is another story. The key reason he wanted out was the believe he was a #1, everydown workhorse back. While we want to add a RB, Forte very much remains a key player in our plans going forward. Any RB we add would, at best, serve in a dual role. That simply is not what TJ wanted then, and still not what he wants today. TJ is coming off a very productive season, and has plenty of reason to believe he deserves a workhorse back role, but that is simply not what he would get if he were here. Even if he were considered the #1 RB here, which is very much questionable, he would share snaps and not get the numbers he is looking for. I would also add money is likely a factor. TJ seems to have a gripe about his pay every couple years, and today is no different. He was paid well in NY, but even then complained he wanted more. TJ is not likely to accept the sort of money we are likely planning to spend on a 2nd RB. TJ will be seeking a team which will offer him a nearly uncontested #1 role, and a contract to match such expectations. That is not what he will find in Chicago.

I think there are several factors, and yes, money is one. When a team signs a player for a significant contract, it is not often he is cut after one season. But you have to consider some other factors. Omiyale may not be as young as a rookie, but he was a very inexperienced player, and playing a position different from the one he had practiced and developed at. It was always said and believed he would be a player that would need to develop. Further, it can be argued he did show signs of developing, finishing the season on a fairly positive note. I think there may also be a small question of how much of the poor play had to do w/ Pace, who was equally awful at LT, next to him. Once Williams moved to LT, Omiyale's play seemed to improve? Coincidence? OL is a big problem area, but in depth as well as along the starters. In Omiyale, I am sure the staff looks at him and thinks, he showed development and improvement at OG, and can also move back to RT, the position many feel is more natural for him and where he was developed by Carolina. In keeping Omiyale, Angelo can add either an OG or RT and play Omiyale at the spot not upgraded. I have no problem keeping Omiyale on the team. My key hope is we allow an honest competition, whether at OG or RT. If Omiyale looks like the player that started the season, then he is on the bench. If he looks more like the player who finished the season at OG, or the player who played well for Carolina at OT, then he may start. But the key is not to assume he is the starter and make him earn it.

One of the key issues for me w/ Peppers is, he is one of those players who can be as good as he wants. Make no mistake. While Wale was a great DE in Miami, he had Taylor opposite him, and fed off that. In Peppers, you would be getting the Jason Taylor of the DL. Peppers is the one that teams game plan for, and the one that everyone feeds off, rather than the one benefitting from someone else. The concern I have is this. Three years ago he seemed to go into the tank. The following year was a contract year, and he stepped up big, only to be slapped w/ the tag, thus he was essentially in another contract year, and played at a high level again. I fear Peppers is just the sort to play at a lower level after hitting the big payday. It is sad, but there are players out there who play for the money more than the wins, and Peppers seems to be just that sort. If he gets his money, I think it fair to ask whether we get the pro bowl Peppers after he gets his big paycheck, or whether he lacks the incentive and dails it back.

I guess that is where the difference lies. I simply am not sold that Rolle is that good, and I do believe the difference in talent between Robinson as a CB and Rolle as a FS is in fact that great. Again, as I have said, I may simply be ignorant of Rolle. I have not seen him play much, and have not read or heard that much about him. But on this board, some members who have watched him due to living in and around Az, the opion is not high. In fact, Az has said he is really no better than what we have, which is pretty damning. That is why I like the idea of Robinson over Rolle. I simply question the value of Rolle, while I do not question the value of Robinson.

Sorry, but DM has plenty of value. The problem with DM is not so much DM, but how the coaches have mishandled him for years. He was swapped around between FS and CB, and never developed at either. He was then moved to nickel, and frankly, but very well at nickel. In fact, I think there is a very easy argument that he is our best nickel, and by a sizable measure. The role of a nickel is significanltly different from FS or CB, and he simply seems to fit in that role. Yet, even though the team finally found a role he did very well in, they regardless once again moved him to a position he has always struggled in (FS). That isn't his fault. DM is a solid nickel DB, and w/ our extremly thin group of DBs, that makes him very valuable to us, so long as we use him properly. Further, he is a damn good returner. In fact, I would argue he is as good or better than Hester, and I am talking about Hester in his heyday. Hester was incredible, but where he was the most dangerous was as a punt returner. As a punt returner, he exploded for 3 and 4 scores and had great ypr averages. But while yes, he did score twice both of those two seasons, his average on kickoff returns was not nearly so great (26.4 and 21.7) DM only had 1 score, but his averages of 29.7 and 26.5 were simply better. Hester as a punt returner and DM as a kick returner would create a freakishly incredible combo. Also consider Hester has simply been bad in the return game for the last two years, and even if he again focuses on that area, there is no guarantee he finds that early success. So while I agree we should not be considering DM at FS or CB, as a nickel and kickoff returner, he has tremendous value.

I am not saying such an idea has no value, but I disagree where you say we upgrade two positions at once. The is potential in a move such as Tillman to safety, but I would not call this an upgrade. He has never played safety. There is an adjustment just moving from playing RCB to LCB. Moving from CB to FS has a considerable adjustment as well. Yes, I realize numerous others have done it. I am not saying it is impossible. I am saying there is a considerable adjustment factor and question the assumption that such a change would be automatic or seamless. Okay, and lets say for a moment that we start Robinson (I am assuming you are saying we sign him) and Bowman, w/ Tillman at FS. Bowman goes down, now what. Do you keep Tillman at FS, or move him back to CB. If you move him back to CB, you now have an issue of replacing your FS w/ someone who frankly, isn't any good. That is the problem you face when your top backup at one position is also a starter at another. I am not saying the idea shouldn't be considered, but (best case) I would much rather seek out that long term solution, and I am not sure Tillman to FS is that solution.

But, - No argument DE is tops, and there are a couple to look at, but simply put, we may be on the outside looking in. The money talked about for robinson, or most any other, likely is not remotely close to what someone like Peppers will likely command. I would love to be wrong, but I see no way we get Peppers. I don't think he would prefer to come here, if he had a choice, and I don't think we will offer him a deal that blows away everyone else, which is what it might take. Kampman? Honestly, I just don't know what his market will be coming off the injury. - I think we all agree FS is a huge need. But if we are talking "what would Jerry do" what has he ever done to make you think he would go after a big ticket FS, or even a FS like Rolle? Jerry and Lovie seem to like the idea of getting a SS and moving him to FS. DM is a rare exception, but during Angelo's time here, when has he ever gone after that centerfielder? - If its Peppers or Robinson, yes, it would be Peppers. Kampman or Robinson, again, likely the pass rusher. But what if we can't get either? Robinson or Rolle? I don't know about that. I am not sold on Rolle, and question whether he is even the sort of DB Jerry covets.

I think he's just saying that to get out of Carolina. He was saying the same thing last season, and I really believe that if Carolina ran a 3-4, Peppers would have been talking about how he could only shine in a 4-3. But he made those comments even after being told he would not be tagged, and thus was given his release. A year ago, sure, you could have argued he made the comments trying to force a trade, but even as a free man, he maintained the belief that he would thrive in a different system. Hell, even his agent said as much. From what I've seen, he could do anything in any system with his skill set. When you've got a DE who's practically as strong as a nose tackle but is fast enough to run with receivers in coverage, I'm not sure there's any scheme that would particularly hamper him. Now if what he really means is that he's only interested in playing in a different scheme, then we've got a problem. Because that dude definitely only plays when he's interested. Who knows. W/ a player like Peppers, I have a feeling money talks. If we offered the biggest payday, he may well just say our system would be perfect for him, even though it is essentially the same system as he played in Carolina. Honestly, at the end of the day, I think we are going to have a real hard time getting a top tier player like Peppers. Even if we are willing to spend the money, I doubt we are going to blow away all other offers. If the difference is small, would it be enough. The same instability that prevented coaches from joining the team could also prevent players from doing the same. Further, few think highly of our chances next year, and while money will no question be a key issue in who he signs w/, so may the chances of a SB ring. Even if you try to reason we have a good shot at 2010, I don't think that is what most out there believe. Then consider how bad our D has been, and how questionable our overall talent is. I just question whether a player like Peppers, who you know is going to have his choice of options, would choose to join us.

Thats what I thought, but ESPN has him listed on our roster, so I thought I was mistaken. After reading your post, I checked w/ the Bears site and you are right. As I recall, in camp, I was ticked off because we gave CB reps to him over Graham, and railed about it after Mcbride was released.

You mention Rolle, but I have seen some who have watched him question whether he is even that good. I mentioned in a prior post, I really have not seen him much. I thought the Cards were pretty disappointed in him overall. Not to say he sucks, but that he never lived up to expectations. But I don't know. If he isn't that good though, I want to see what sort of money it would take to get him. I agree 100% FS is a greater need. As you said, while I argue Robinson would be an upgrade at CB (starter and depth) we at least have two potential decent to solid starters in place. We have nothing at FS. At the same time, that doesn't mean you overpay to get the best available if the best available isn't all that good. My opinion here more is about Rolle. If for example, Atowge were an UFA, I would be singing a different tune. But I am not sold on Rolle, and some posters on this board who have watched far more of him than I have a pretty weak opinion of him. To sign him, you are talking about a long term deal for pretty decent money. Is he not only an immediate upgrade, but a long term solution? I don't know. Robinson is a player though who I believe would be an immediate upgrade and a long term fixture. That is why I pull toward Robinson over Rolle. Not because I believe CB a greater need than FS, but because I believe Robinson a much stronger player than Rolle.

Problem is, everything I have read has Peppers basically saying he could be so much more in a different system. Not sure if he specifically means 3-4 rather than 4-3, or what, but one of the points he continues to make about FA is that he believes he can do so much more in a system better suited for him. So while, under normal logic, our running a similar system as to what he played in Carolina would prove and asset, it may in fact be the opposite.

One. Sure, if there is a good or great FS on the market, you want to go after him, but it doesn't look like a good crop of FS'. If you are not going to get a big time FS, there is no reason to to focus on other areas of need. Two. Robinson is better than Tillman or Bowman. Robinson would be an instant upgrade today, and frankly, down the road as well. Robinson had AN injury, which affected a year and a half, but has not had continual injuries. Absent to two years he dealt w/ the injury, which was a major injury, he played all 16 games each of his other 4 seasons. Tillman has been dealing w/ injuries for most of his career, and has not started all 16 games since his rookie season. He plays most games, but does so injuries and at a lower level. Bowman is simply a big injury risk when you factor his college and first NFL season. I like Bowman, but if it came down to it, I would not have a problem adding Robinson to play opposite Tillman, and allow Bowman to move to nickel. At that point, we would have three solid CBs, our depth would be improved, and in Bowman, we would have someone capable of taking over for Tillman eventually.

It isn't that I dislike DM as a nickel, but my concern there is, usually your nickel DB is also your backup for the starter, however, sometimes your nickel DB simply sucks when placed on the outside. I remember when we paid fairly big for RMJ, who was considered one of the top nickel DBs in the NFL. Due to injury, we needed to move him outside, and he was awful. That meant we had to look deeper into our depth for a DB to start. That could be the issue this year too. If a starter goes down, we can't just move our #3 up as our #3 can play the outside role. That means we are now reaching for a player to move up. The problem looks worse, IMHO, when you consider the high injury risk I would argue both Bowman and Tillman have right now. Seriously, just look at our group of CBs. It is really bad. Looking past our starters: Vasher - Whatever he had he lost. He has been given opportunities, but has failed each time. He is simply no good. IMHO, the only reason he is on the roster today is due to our lack of depth, which says a lot. Graham - I really just don't get it. I know what you are talking about, that the staff supposedly graded him out low at the end of the season two years ago, but I just don't get it. While he may not have been great, he was playing for the first time and still appeared to hold his own. How great did they expect him to be w/ zero prior playing time? And how we handled him in the offseason just killed me. Even when we were in need of CB bodies in camp due to injuries, we played guys who had no shot ahead of Graham. Graham was to be moved to FS, but it never seemed like we really pushed that development either, even moving him to nickel at one point. Then I read Hoke, new last year, didn't favor Graham, and that seems to be the reason for Graham questionable placement/development. But at the end of the day, the point is we have a player on the roster who the staff does not appear to favor, and thus you have to question the value. McBride - Simply put, since he rookie year, he has been bad when given the shot, and as the shots have dwindled, it appears so has the confidence of the staff. Moore - I don't even know what to think. I never felt he was big enough. Later in the year, I read the staff also questioned his size, but why then did we draft him in the first place. Is this an example of the GM/scouts and coach not being on the same page. Regardless, Moore could not so much as get on the game day roster, and that is even though there was a dire lack of depth and a great need. I have heard nothing positive, and do not believe he should be really considered or factored. Turenne - Who? That's it. Yea, there is DM, but I am talking about depth to support our starting CBs. Frankly, it is flat out ugly.

This is a player I think we should be seriously looking at. The coach who developed him (Hoke) is now on our staff, which should give us plenty of insight. Yes, DL and FS are massive holes, but I still think CB is as well. Once, I argued against adding an upper tier FA CB like Robinson, arguing that we had several promising young players and that a pass rusher was what we needed far more. I still think a pass rusher should be the top target, but if we can't add a player like Peppers, Kampman or the like, then we should really be looking at CB. We are just so thin at CB. Bowman is a promising youth, but is not yet really proven. But even if we give him the nod, Tillman has been going downhill for a while, and we have nothing after these two.

I don't think this is the case, but you don't think I meant to compare Bowman to Vasher, right? I like Bowman enough. The top question for his will be injury due to college and first season. This year was a big step forward, not only in terms of development, but in his ability to stay on the field. But he has to do it over time. Honestly, I think our entire secondary is one massive question mark. Of all the parts therein, Bowman may be the most stable of the entire group. Most would say Tillman, but sorry, his play has simply not been all that for the last few years, and his injuries are becoming a greater and greater factor. He doesn't miss many games, and plays through the injury, but you can still see the decline in his play when he does. For example, the shoulder injury seemed to be a big issue as Tillman, once a solid tackling DB, seemed to more often whif on tackles. We have options at SS, but none seem spectacular, and none are really proven or stable. FS is a joke. Depth at CB is non-existent. For all the talk about FS, which I agree is a massive need, I wonder why so little has been discussed of CB. IMHO, the only reason Vasher is still on the roster is due to our total lack of depth. I still like Graham, but the staff sure doesn't. I read Hoke was not a fan, and that was the key reason Graham went from starting two years ago to barely being remembered this past year. Moore couldn't even make the game day roster, and I have read nothing positive about him since the draft. McBride has done nothing since that late rookie stint where he played decent. The coaches always talk about how you need three starters at CB due to the high powered passing offenses in today's NFL. We have questions at starter, and a glaring hole for depth.

Thanks for the link. The limitation is even greater for those teams in the final four. I basically knew/know the details, but didn't want to bog down w/ the details. The overall purpose was more simply that players may not find the riches in FA many expected w/ the uncapped year, and even some of the better ones may not find the massive bidding war they would expect.

Honestly, I think we are beyond the "excuses" area. I truly believe that, if it were not for the CBA issues, ownership would have already made a move. In hindsight, I wonder if they don't today regret not making the move after all that has happened since. Regardless, I think we are past excuses. Next year, I think a decision is made w/ CBA and record being the issues. Injuries, finishing a bad year on a high note, whatever, won't matter. If the team wins, Lovie sticks. Period. I do not think they re-sign him, even if he has a good year. I think they will make him prove himself a 2nd season after. If he loses, then it will likely come down to the CBA. If a new deal is in place, or the owners have high expectation for a deal to get done, then I think Lovie in gone. If we lose next year, and no deal is in place or expected, then Lovie likely is kept as there is little reason to hire a new coach so he can sit and watch tv from home too.

Well, Vasher racked up the picks. Personally, in many ways, I think interceptions are as much an over-rated stat as sacks can often times be. Look at Wale. He had a "decent" number of sacks, but we all known most all his sacks came in a handful of games where he was going against very weak RTs, while he was absent (in terms of pass rush) most of the season. I would have no issue w/ a CB that didn't intercept the ball if he covered well. As great as an interception is, I would much rather have a guy who can consistently cover and prevent a catch from being made. Bowman is yet an unknown, but I would say he is similar to some of our WRs. While not yet proven, he has shown quite a bit of potential and provides a lot of reason for hope. My concern at CB is w/ the rest. Tillman has been going downhill and dealing w/ more and more injuries, and the older he gets, the less likely he is to find sudden great health. We have virtually nothing behind these two.

One thing I am anxious to see is what sort of money will be spent by other teams. Per most reports I have read, we are far from alone among teams watching their money w/ the CBA issues. I read some other teams held off on making coaching and staffing moves for the same reasons as we. Further, many other teams are questionable to spend big in FA. There is also that rule that limits last years playoff teams from making big splashes in FA. Something about not being able to sign a FA until you lose one, and then only a FA of similar tier as the one you lost. Not exactly sure how all that works, but the point is, it is yet another FA limitation. Everyone assumes Danny Snyder will spend big, and maybe he will. But even w/o the cap in place, i am curious to see how many owners go "hog wild" in terms of spending. If the number of owners willing to spend mega bucks is limited, then it may not be as expensive to sign some players as we may think. A player like Peppers likely hits his payday, but others may be more reasonably had than you would otherwise think.

I guess the key for me was when I read something about (don't know the details) some sort of tax increase they were hit with, I believe from the Parks district or something like that. Point is, they costs went up last year, and they held off on raising ticket prices. Look, all I am saying is I understand the reasoning, though I agree timing sucks. Unfortunately, the Dallas Cowgirls are likely to get my money as the Bears will be coming to town next year.

I love LT, but I think either he has to come down to Earth a tad, or another team has to step up to him. Per PFT, "but said he was unhappy with his workload in San Diego and wouldn't consider a pay cut. For reference, Tomlinson saw 243 touches and was set to make $5 million for the Chargers." It happens all the time. A star player's game drops over time, but others seem to realize it before they do. If he still believe he is a workhorse, should be signed as one and paid as one, then I don't think he would fit with us. Let me just ask this too. If you were LT, would you want to sign w/ us? We have a pass happy OC, and while many can argue either side, it is simply an unknown how much we will run the ball at all, much less enough to make him happy. We hope to improve, but based on last year's OL blocking, how many RBs want to come here. Oh yea, and we suck (total team). It will depend on options, but a player like LT is more likely to seek a job w/ a team that has more playoff promise than we. I just don't really see the fit here.