nfoligno

I think a lot of it goes back to Angelo's background as a defensive scout. I have talked about this for years. Seemingly ever year, during the draft, when our pick is on the clock, there are several OL who, if you go off the "experts" would look like solid values, but Angelo always seems to find some DL rated far lower who he loves and picks. IMHO, it goes back to our pre-draft board. When grading players, and creating our draft board, I think there is a heavy bias on defensive players, especially DL, and I think this goes back to Angelo's history as a defensive scout. So when our board is created, players the "experts" would have much lower are higher on our board, and OL "experts" would rank high are lower on our board. Thus during the draft, Angelo can honestly say this DL most call a reach was a value pick in his eyes. That is partially why I think we don't draft OL often. We simply don't value OL as highly, thus OL never seems the best player available when it is our time to pick. The only time we seem to draft OL high is when we pick out of need rather than best player available. When we drafted Columbo and Williams in the first round, does anyone believe those were Angelo's best player available, or simply the best OT available. We took them due to need. If not for such a need, I am sure Angelo would have had 5 DL he ranked higher.

You seem to emphasize the exceptions. Maybe a couple teams who drafted a lot of OL didn't work. Maybe a couple teams that drafted few OL did work out. But these seem to be the exceptions more than the rules. The majority of teams that drafted a lot of OL did create solid OL units, while the majority of teams that drafted few had the opposite effect. Sure, there are always exceptions to the rule. There are some teams that found franchise QBs late in the draft, but does such an exception alter the rule? Is it a good plan for teams to believe a 6th round pick QB should become a franchise QB?

For the record, Seattle had a very good OL until recently. They lost Hutchinson to Minny, and about the same time, Walter Jones started suffering injury and went downhill fast. Prior to this, Seattle had a damn good OL, which one of the best left sides in the NFL.

Sorry, but what two teams are you referring to?

Regarding your exceptions. Minny - The list only goes through 2007. In 2009, Minny drafted their starting RT and C. Prior to that, they had Birk who was a starter at center for a long time. Their starting LT as also drafted. They paid big for Hutch, but at the same time, spent to get a still young OG, rather than signing a 35 year old. Minny did build through the draft, but due to drafting well prior to this list coming out, they needed fewer draft picks due to an already stable OL, and when players were getting near retirement, they used the draft to find new starters, ala center and RT last year. Giants had a good OL, but still not a bad example, as it wasn't long term. OL was last year, and is again this year, a key concern for their offense. You may get a couple good years of OL play, but withouth drafting OL, it is usually short lived. You point out a couple of the exceptions, but look at the bulk of the teams that didn't draft many OL during the period of time. Bears, Det, KC and Wash are the bottom four, and in those 4 you have 4 of the worst OLs in the league. KC is only now improving, but drafted 4 OL in the last 3 years, which is after this study. NYJ didn't draft many, but were a bad OL until recently. 2 of their 3 listed picks came only in 2006, and both were 1st rounders for them. They also spent a lot of money to add veterans to the mix. So they recently used both the draft and FA to improve their OL, which again, wasn't any good until the last year or two. Buffalo, Stl and AZ are next on the list, and each of those have had poor OLs for some time. SD has drafted very well, and has also drafted more OL in the last three years. But they are a rare team in that so many of those they drafted turned into solid starters, including players drafted in the 6th and 7th rounds, which are not on this list. I could go on, but I do think that while you can point to exceptions, it doesn't change the rule. The majority of teams who failed to draft OL have bad OLs. Further, this list only goes through 2007, and some of the teams you think of as having good OLs drafted OL in the 3 years since the end of this report. At the end of the day, failing to draft OL does in fact seem to point to weak OLs.

But the counter to this was also discussed. Schedule is a factor. Maybe we improved a little, but at the same time, our schedule is much harder, thus it remains very questionable whether our improvement equals the improved level of competition. Further, while we may have improved in individual talent at various positions, at the same time, it remains to be seen if the whole comes together due to so many changes, both in personnel and scheme. Finally, we were one of the worst defenses in the league last year. Even if we have improved some, or even a bit more than some, how good is that? So you go from #30 to #20. Your still in the bottom half of the league. So we may well have improved the individual talent at some positions, but there is still great question whether (a) those individuals actually improve the whole and ( whether that level of improvement equals (much less betters) the improved level of competition we will face this year.

Lucky, hope your not expecting an argument from me. (a) I have never been a fan of Angelo, and felt he did a poor job from the start. ( In particular, OL is one of the areas I have most attacked him. While he did try various ways for a QB (striking out) he at least swung the bat. When it came to OL it was more like 3 called strikes and his bat never lifted off his shoulder.

I would add that sometimes the parts don't improve the whole. While individual players/positions may be improved, the overall units may not. OL may not be as bad as last year, but at the same time, they will be asked to hold their blocks longer. Cutler and the WRs may be better after a season together, but at the same time, they could actually be worse due to the system. On offense, I think it is all about the OL and system. We talk about how Martz is an upgrade over Turner, but if Cutler and Co struggle to run Martz scheme and Martz doesn't adjust, I am not sure I would say he is an upgrade. Further, if the OL can't protect Cutler, especially with this sytem, again, things could be worse. But I think the bigger concern is on the defense. We may not have downgraded much, and maybe even improved some, but the D flat out stunk last year and minimal improvements are not going to help enough.

I don't have as big of an issue with adding veterans. R.Brown was actually a very good pickup for us. My issue is that he didn't follow this up by drafting young OL to develop, and I don't mean 7th round draft picks. If he added veterans, but at the same time used draft picks on OL, we would have been able to develop young OL to replace the veterans. But no. Angie would sign the veterans, and wait to make a move (draft or FA) until a year after the veteran was done. Angelo once flat said in an interview he didn't like drafting OL because they take too long to develop and that he preferred veterans. There was a time I think this may have been okay. There was a time when OL just were not that expensive. LTs may have been pricey, but RTs, OGs and even centers were pretty inexpensive. You could go into FA and get very good, young OL. But times changed. OGs today make big bucks once reserved for only LTs. Angelo didn't change with the times. He continued to go the FA route, but found quality young players in FA too expensive, so thus went after the bargain old guys. This worked well for Brown. Maybe worked decent for a year with Miller. Bombed with Pace. But to me, the point is still not simply adding the veterans, but not backing up such a move with draft picks ready to step in when the old guys were done.

To me, its an issue of point of view. If you want to look at Martz in a positive light, you can look solely at the teams he took over and the improved passing yards and passing TDs. If you only look at this, Martz looks like a genius. BUT, that is not the whole picture. He didn't run the ball much, so when you reduce the rushing, the overall increased yardage was not as great. Also, while there were more TDs thrown, there were also more interceptions. May not fully offset, but it does reduce the overall scoring effect. Martz also got his QBs killed, as they would usually be among the league leaders in getting sacked. Finally, I would also point out their teams TOP suffered. The offense was largely boom or bust. Either they hit big on a drive, go three and out or turn it over. Not many sustained drives, which only further burdens the defense. For the record, I am not talking about Stl, where he had a pro bowl offense to work with. The "hope" here is there will be some differences: (a) With Tice on board, and Lovie insisting we "get off the bus running" the hope is Martz is pressed to have a more balanced attack. ( Again, with Tice on board, the hope is our OL will be better, and more capable of sustaining blocks for Cutler. © Better QB than in previous offenses, and with better overall weapons. I think A and C are very possible, but B is way up in the air.

Actually more disappointed about Shaw than Afalava.

Urlacher I could see getting a 4th from the right team in need. Honestly, I am not sure if we put Urlacher on the block that he would get one offer. Thing with Urlacher is the contract. Even without the cap, that is a lot of money to eat, and I just question whether a team would do it, especially with the injury issues. Hester, I could see maybe a 3rd under the right situation, but most likely a 4th at most. It'd have to be a team in desperate need of a returner and WR's. Again, don't see it. What has he done as a return man in the last two years? Nothing. Hard enough to get teams to give up quality picks for a good/great return man, but for one who hasn't done well in several years? Tillman I could see easily get a 4th. He's not great in my eyes, but he seems to have a good rep in the league and respect. Teams always need CB's. Tillman was just demoted by the team. He has dealt with numerous injuries over the last few years. He is more a system player as he doesn't have the speed to play man, meaning the group of teams who "may" like him would be smaller. Wolfe, I couldn't see more than a 7th round conditional pick on him making that team's roster. Likely nothing as many expect him to be cut. Olsen, I think the highest teams supposedly offered for him before the draft was a 5th. I'd say it'd probably be the same, if not lower, since those same teams drafted TE's. Actually think it possible we could get a 4th. He has played well, is still young, contact isn't bad. He is likely the most tradable of the bunch. Still wouldn't do it, but just talking trade value.

DB, Papabear posted on the FF site, PapaBear will be keeping Steve Smith (NYG) for a 9th round pick

Sorry, Black and Blues Brothers keeps Mendenhall for a 12th round pick. Also, myself and Papabear votes for the 6 team playoff system you proposed.

I'll take Rashard Mendenhall in the 12th round.

Nice

farging icehole! Good pick, but bastage!

Bradjock, 1st round keepers was voted down in the poll. Per the polls, we keep one player from last year. You give up 1 round higher than that player was taken, and no 1st round keepers. Draft order may still factor as an owner may want to keep a 2nd round pick from last year, thus giving up a 1st, but may feel that player is a late 1st value as a keeper, but not if they end up with the top pick in the draft. If there is some sort of computer draft generator, that would be fine with me.

Correct. Think stock market. You do not want to sell low, and that is where Urlacher's stock is. I would argue his value on the field is greater than his market value at this point, due to his injury history/ age and contract. I am sure there are teams would who like to have him, but not with the contract that would come with a trade. Seriously, most guys on that list might net a 5th or lower. You really think that benefits the team? It isn't that I am against trading much of anyone on the team. Its a matter of being smart about it. You don't just give a player away that would otherwise contribute, and with their market values, that is what you would be doing.

1. Please let me know who/how/what etc I should pay $25. DB is setting up the payment system. You will make a payment online. Pretty easy process, for most. 2. How are we settling the keeper kept? Is this during the draft? Before? Can I see a list of everyone's players they have an option to keep? Is it set up on the site? One keeper, giving up one round prior to last year. How this is actually put into the draft, I am not positive. I think DB has that covered. I imagine if you are the commish, you have the power to (a) take players out of the draft, ( add those players to relevant teams and © block out the ability of the player to make their pick in a particular round. Keepers have become pretty common, so I imagine our site is set up to deal with it. We probably need to set a deadline so DB has time to get the info into place. As for draft results and potential keepers from last year, here is the full round by round draft from last year. Please ignore my embarassing picks Round 1 1. Matt Forte PapaBear 2. Adrian Peterson Cali Bears 3. Steven Jackson Black&Blues ... 4. Maurice Jones-Drew Brass Cojones 5. Michael Turner Crushers 6. Andre Johnson Nopper 7. Brian Westbrook Branch Palin... 8. Drew Brees Bluecollarbears 9. Larry Fitzgerald DevilDogs 10. Tom Brady Acedthesobri... Round 2 1. Reggie Wayne Acedthesobri... 2. DeAngelo Williams DevilDogs 3. Randy Moss Bluecollarbears 4. LaDainian Tomlinson Branch Palin... 5. Steve Slaton Nopper 6. Chris Johnson Crushers 7. Frank Gore Brass Cojones 8. Roddy White Black&Blues ... 9. Brandon Jacobs Cali Bears 10. Clinton Portis PapaBear Round 3 1. Steve Smith PapaBear 2. Anquan Boldin Cali Bears 3. Ronnie Brown Black&Blues ... 4. Calvin Johnson Brass Cojones 5. Greg Jennings Crushers 6. Ryan Grant Nopper 7. Peyton Manning Branch Palin... 8. Marion Barber Bluecollarbears 9. Pierre Thomas DevilDogs 10. Marques Colston Acedthesobri... Round 4 1. Dwayne Bowe Acedthesobri... 2. Philip Rivers DevilDogs 3. Kevin Smith Bluecollarbears 4. Wes Welker Branch Palin... 5. Kurt Warner Nopper 6. Aaron Rodgers Crushers 7. Chad Ochocinco Brass Cojones 8. Matt Schaub Black&Blues ... 9. Jay Cutler Cali Bears 10. Tony Romo PapaBear Round 5 1. Brandon Marshall PapaBear 2. Vincent Jackson Cali Bears 3. Eddie Royal Black&Blues ... 4. Donovan McNabb Brass Cojones 5. T.J. Houshmandzadeh Crushers 6. Jason Witten Nopper 7. Reggie Bush Branch Palin... 8. Terrell Owens Bluecollarbears 9. Willie Parker DevilDogs 10. Joseph Addai Acedthesobri... Round 6 1. Darren McFadden Acedthesobri... 2. Dallas Clark DevilDogs 3. Thomas Jones Bluecollarbears 4. Greg Olsen Branch Palin... 5. Roy Williams Nopper 6. Antonio Gates Crushers 7. Anthony Gonzalez Brass Cojones 8. John Carlson Black&Blues ... 9. Tony Gonzalez Cali Bears 10. DeSean Jackson PapaBear Round 7 1. Braylon Edwards PapaBear 2. Jonathan Stewart Cali Bears 3. Lance Moore Black&Blues ... 4. Marshawn Lynch Brass Cojones 5. Hines Ward Crushers 6. Antonio Bryant Nopper 7. LenDale White Branch Palin... 8. Larry Johnson Bluecollarbears 9. Bernard Berrian DevilDogs 10. Chris Cooley Acedthesobri... Round 8 1. Derrick Ward Acedthesobri... 2. Ray Rice DevilDogs 3. Santana Moss Bluecollarbears 4. Laveranues Coles Branch Palin... 5. Beanie Wells Nopper 6. Knowshon Moreno Crushers 7. Owen Daniels Brass Cojones 8. Pittsburgh Black&Blues ... 9. Baltimore Cali Bears 10. New York PapaBear Round 9 1. Jeremy Shockey PapaBear 2. Santonio Holmes Cali Bears 3. Torry Holt Black&Blues ... 4. Chicago Brass Cojones 5. Kevin Walter Crushers 6. Leon Washington Nopper 7. Devin Hester Branch Palin... 8. Kellen Winslow Bluecollarbears 9. Felix Jones DevilDogs 10. Jamal Lewis Acedthesobri... Round 10 1. Donnie Avery Acedthesobri... 2. Donald Driver DevilDogs 3. Tennessee Bluecollarbears 4. Steve Breaston Branch Palin... 5. Lee Evans Nopper 6. Julius Jones Crushers 7. Glen Coffee Brass Cojones 8. Derrick Mason Black&Blues ... 9. Matt Ryan Cali Bears 10. Steve Smith PapaBear Round 11 1. Ted Ginn Jr. PapaBear 2. Jerricho Cotchery Cali Bears 3. Greg Camarillo Black&Blues ... 4. Donald Brown Brass Cojones 5. Cedric Benson Crushers 6. Darren Sproles Nopper 7. Ricky Williams Branch Palin... 8. Stephen Gostkowski Bluecollarbears 9. Percy Harvin DevilDogs 10. Fred Jackson Acedthesobri... Round 12 1. Chester Taylor Acedthesobri... 2. Earl Bennett DevilDogs 3. Carson Palmer Bluecollarbears 4. Jeremy Maclin Branch Palin... 5. Jamaal Charles Nopper 6. LeSean McCoy Crushers 7. James Davis Brass Cojones 8. Earnest Graham Black&Blues ... 9. Michael Jenkins Cali Bears 10. Deion Branch PapaBear Round 13 1. Nate Washington PapaBear 2. Le'Ron McClain Cali Bears 3. Rashard Mendenhall Black&Blues ... 4. Philadelphia Brass Cojones 5. Zach Miller Crushers 6. Dustin Keller Nopper 7. Visanthe Shiancoe Branch Palin... 8. Willis McGahee Bluecollarbears 9. Ahmad Bradshaw DevilDogs 10. San Diego Acedthesobri... Round 14 1. Muhsin Muhammad Acedthesobri... 2. New York DevilDogs 3. Michael Crabtree Bluecollarbears 4. Fred Taylor Branch Palin... 5. Carnell Williams Nopper 6. Minnesota Crushers 7. Tony Scheffler Brass Cojones 8. Hakeem Nicks Black&Blues ... 9. Dallas Cali Bears 10. Jerious Norwood PapaBear Round 15 1. Mark Clayton PapaBear 2. Peyton Hillis Cali Bears 3. Justin Gage Black&Blues ... 4. Brian Robiskie Brass Cojones 5. Isaac Bruce Crushers 6. Miami Nopper 7. Mark Bradley Branch Palin... 8. Shonn Greene Bluecollarbears 9. Tim Hightower DevilDogs 10. Mewelde Moore Acedthesobri... Round 16 1. Tashard Choice Acedthesobri... 2. Patrick Crayton DevilDogs 3. Domenik Hixon Bluecollarbears 4. Darrius Heyward-Bey Branch Palin... 5. Kenny Britt Nopper 6. James Jones Crushers 7. Matt Hasselbeck Brass Cojones 8. Ben Roethlisberger Black&Blues ... 9. Michael Bush Cali Bears 10. Kevin Boss PapaBear Round 17 1. Eli Manning PapaBear 2. Davone Bess Cali Bears 3. Brent Celek Black&Blues ... 4. Nate Kaeding Brass Cojones 5. David Garrard Crushers 6. Vernon Davis Nopper 7. Edgerrin James Branch Palin... 8. Heath Miller Bluecollarbears 9. Ryan Longwell DevilDogs 10. Robbie Gould Acedthesobri... Round 18 1. Anthony Fasano Acedthesobri... 2. Jermichael Finley DevilDogs 3. New England Bluecollarbears 4. Ladell Betts Branch Palin... 5. Kevin Faulk Nopper 6. Green Bay Crushers 7. Chris Chambers Brass Cojones 8. Josh Morgan Black&Blues ... 9. Rob Bironas Cali Bears 10. Chris Henry PapaBear Round 19 1. Laurence Maroney PapaBear 2. Desmond Clark Cali Bears 3. Laurent Robinson Black&Blues ... 4. Jabar Gaffney Brass Cojones 5. Antwaan Randle El Crushers 6. Seattle Nopper 7. Joey Galloway Branch Palin... 8. Kris Brown Bluecollarbears 9. Brett Favre DevilDogs 10. Sammy Morris Acedthesobri... Round 20 1. Andre Brown Acedthesobri... 2. Correll Buckhalter DevilDogs 3. Matt Cassel Bluecollarbears 4. Mason Crosby Branch Palin... 5. David Akers Nopper 6. Nick Folk Crushers 7. Kevin Curtis Brass Cojones 8. Garrett Hartley Black&Blues ... 9. Plaxico Burress Cali Bears 10. John Kasay PapaBear

Exactly what do you think we can get for these players? Olsen couldn't net a 2nd, and he may be the most tradable on this list due to potential/age/contract. Urlacher is near the end of his career, coming off season ending surgery, and went down again in the preseason. Then there is also his contact. Urlacher is near untradable, not because I worship him, but his value in a trade is near non-existent. Even if a team liked him, they wouldn't want him with his contract. Tillman. See Urlacher. Injury prone, and was justed publically demoted to #2 CB behind a still unproven kid. Another bigger contract too. Harris- I assume you mean Tommie, not our newly acquired S. Harris has not really played well for several years, has been benched once each of the last two seasons, injury prone and has a large contract. Again, see Urlacher. Wolfe - Maybe you get a team to cough up a 7th, but this is someone who may be cut. Your not going to get much for him. Hester. Lets see. He has a WR contract, but do you really think another team loves him as a WR? Even as a returner, he has not done that well for two years. Sorry, it isn't that I am such of fan of these players that I can't stand the idea of trading them, but simply question the trade value of any of them. Right now, their value in the market will not bring jack, but at the same time, it is still possible several of these players can provide very good play on the field. It isn't so much that their are crap, just that their trade value is crap.

And further proof that if our DBs would play tighter, and actually jam WRs, our DL would have time to hit the QB BEFORE he gets rid of the ball.

In talking about the preseason game with Az, what does Lovie stress as a key area of concern? missed field goals? He even went on to say the D played well. What? If this defense can't stop teams from converting on 3rd downs. FGs are not going to make a dang bit of difference. Lovie continues his dillusional ways. Nothing to see here. All is well. Move on.

I always gave credit for the new stadium deal. The only thing that ticked me off about the new stadium was the lack of seating. For a new stadium, it is sad when you look at the capacity.

Nice analysis. One thing I would like to know, as I didn't see the game. You said our DBs played closer to the LOS. Did they continue this on 3rd downs, or back off. In the past, that has been a huge gripe. We play a certain way on 1st and 2nd down, get the opponent into 3rd and long, then totally change what was working (usually going into a traditional cover 2), and the result is a 1st down. I do know we are once again getting killed on 3rd down. What I am curious about is whether a key reason is the same as in the past. Abandoning what worked to get them into 3rd and long and moving into a more pure cover 2.