nfoligno

Excuse me, but what does a SB win have to do with what you said? I believe you said you would rather lose in the conf championship game then win that one, go to the SB, but lose in the SB. Where in this does it mention winning a SB. Sure, we all would take a SB win over "fill in the blank." But that wasn't part of your comment. So you would rather lose in the conf championship game rather than win that one and lose in the SB. By that logic, would you not rather lose the division game so you then would not have to worry about losing the conf game? Further, if you are not going to win the SB, would you rather simply not make the playoffs at all so as to not get your hopes up? No one is saying they want to win a bunch of conf game w/o ever winning the SB, but the shocking aspect of what you seemed to be saying was that you would rather never even make it to the SB rather than get there and lose. Sometimes you lose a few before you win.

Its not even just about the college guy vs the NFL guy. There are plenty of college coaches I would take over some NFL coaches. Its about having quality coaches. Period. More than any other unit on the team, I have felt for some time that our OL lacked any level of competent coaching. It appears to me that has finally changed. It is early, and there is yet so much to prove, but if the OL fails this year, for once I will believe it is purely due to talent, and not coaching. Next on my list is the DL. Our SB year we had a 12 sack rookie. Tommie Harris, entering his 3rd season, had developed into one of the league's elite DTs. Tank Johnson, also in his 3rd season, had developed into a solid all around DT. Then we let Don Johnson walk, and what has happened since? We have drafted Bazuin, Harrison, Gilbert, Melton and now Wootton, each of which cost no less than a 4th, with Bazuin costing a 2nd. Taking the rookie out of the equation, who has developed? Bazuin is gone. Harrison is getting another chance after blowing it last year, and showing nothing prior. Gilbert and Melton are facing roster cuts this year, and I am not sure I have read a report on either yet. We always focus so much on Angelo for drafting players, the OC and DC for the schemes players are used in and the HC for, well, running the team, but less focus is made on the position coaches, and that is the person expected to teach and develop these kids.

I hate to say this, but I don't want Ta'uf.... to make the roster. Nothing personal agaisnt him, but I simply hope we don't keep a FB this year. We have 4 TEs on the roster, and I like all of them. At RB, Forte and Taylor are locks, obviously. After that, I like Unga and one of Wolfe or Bell (both won't make it). If we keep a FB though, one of the above will have to go. I just don't think we can keep 4 TEs and 4 RBs unless we justify it by claiming one (or more) can play FB too.

I read Manu is the backup TE. I know this is the first depth chart, and there will be plenty of changes, but this just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Why would Manu not be looked at for the HB spot?

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/bears Tice in no hurry to settle starting O-line Mike Tice believes Lance Louis is a protype right guard because of his size and strength.BOURBONNAIS, Ill. -- Bears coach Lovie Smith, and offensive coordinator Mike Martz recently expressed concern about the club finalizing its decision-making process in naming the starters along the offensive line. The unit’s coach, however, isn’t in such a hurry. “I have to have patience,” offensive line coach Mike Tice said. “The way I look at it is I’ve got five weeks to get these guys ready to play winning football. That’s my job.” Smith and Martz seem to be content to let Tice handle it. Since the start of the club’s offseason conditioning program, the Bears have worked seemingly countless combinations of linemen in an attempt to find the best five linemen to protect quarterback Jay Cutler. The Bears -- having identified two groups of players to zero in on for evaluation -- might be close to finally making a decision. “It’s just about finding the right combination. We’ve looked at a lot of different guys,” Smith said. “But we need to be able to lock our [starting] five in and go from there.” Sitting down for this exclusive Q&A with ESPNChicago.com, Tice goes in depth about the state of the offensive line, its struggles, and how the staff has purposely put the line in one-one-one matchups with new acquisition Julius Peppers to gauge the group’s competitiveness: What’s the status of the situation on the offensive line? With the season approaching, don’t you have to make a decision soon on the starting five? Mike Tice: Not really. If you look at it, we haven’t played a preseason game yet. I think we’ve been able to put two groups together: a first line and a second line. Now they’ve got three practices under their belt. They’ve got Friday, they’ve got the minipractice yesterday morning, and they’ve got the full practice last night. What I look for as we get towards the end of this week, and they get four, five, six practices together, I look for them to start sorting out some stunts. I look for them to be better in their combination blocks because they’re working together. As we know, all the good lines are the guys who have worked together over time. So we’ve got to build that unity, because except for the left tackle, most of the time all of your blocking schemes are two guys working in tandem, whether that’s a tight end and a tackle, a guard and a tackle, a guard and a center. So we’ve got to build that. And the only way to build that is to give some guys a chance to work together. So we’ve identified two groups -- a first and second line -- and we’ve got a couple of rookies that are getting filtered in there right now. So how much have things changed from the first week of camp to now? MT: The first week through Thursday, all the practices we were in and out with guys, in and out with guys. Now we’ve kind of settled in on a couple of groups we want to look at. Nothing’s really etched in stone as far as who’s the guy at a couple of spots. We’ll just see how they improve. You know, right now we’re just inconsistent. We’re doing some really good things. Then we’re doing some things [where I’m] like, ‘OK, now, did I cover this in a meeting or did I not?’ (Laughing) You know, you start wondering if guys are really playing with any confidence at times. … But if you just keep repping these guys, keep covering things, and give these guys a chance to work together, we should see some marked improvement through the course of the next couple of practices. Could you shed some light on the switch of long-time starting right guard Roberto Garza to the left side? That’s not an indictment on his ability is it? MT: I like -- and I have liked since I looked at him in Atlanta as a free agent [in 2005] -- Roberto on the left side. I think his athleticism, the way he pulls, his quickness … he’s suited for the left side in my opinion. That’s just my opinion. Someone else might think otherwise. I look at Lance [Louis] [and see] a big, strong guy; a prototypical right guard in my opinion; a young guy, but very mature. The game, it means a lot to him. He’s very serious about his trade. I want to give him a look in there and see what happens. I don’t know what’s gonna happen. I don’t know whether when the lights come on Saturday night, he might fall apart. I don’t know. I hope not. Then we’d have to kind of go back to Square 1. You know? So I’m gonna see how he develops. He’s done a lot of good things, and as a young guy, he’s done a lot of bad things. Now we’ve got to get the good things on the side of the higher percentage. Is there any pressure on your part to hurry up and put this offensive line together? MT: No. I have to have patience. We’ve got to stay the course. We’ve got to continue to work the techniques we’re working, because technique is really what’s gonna win in this league. We’ve got to be more consistent. We’ve got to keep the thumb on them and strive for that consistency. We can’t let their technique fall apart when they get tired. We’ve just got to keep doing it. The way I look at it is we’ve got five weeks. I’ve got five weeks to get these guys ready to play winning football. That’s my job. How much does it help for your guys to match up with a guy like Julius Peppers every day? It looks like you guys haven’t double-teamed, or done anything schematically to try to stop him. MT: What we’ve done -- it’s not a game -- so we haven’t game planned to put two guys on him. If we were in a real game, we’d make sure we’d address that situation. What we’ve decided to do, Mickey [offensive coordinator Mike Martz] and I -- and we’ve talked about it at length -- is ‘Let’s give our players a chance to get better at their techniques and compete. Let’s see what kind of compete they have.’ I think [left tackle] Chris [Williams] has risen to the challenge. I think over the last couple of days he’s done better in one-on-ones against [Peppers]. Last night, I thought he had a very nice practice against him. In fact, I told Chris I thought it was his best practice. He had a couple of plays [that weren’t so good], but when you play offensive line, you don’t grade out 100 percent [all the time] because it’s a street fight every play. I told the guys if we’ve got six plays … if we win four out of six plays, we’re gonna be a good offense. I’m talking about up front. We’ve got six plays in our sets that we’re doing; sets of six. If we can win four of these we’re gonna be doing pretty good. That’s a pretty good defense we’re playing against. They’re flying around pretty good, you know. And they’re throwing the kitchen sink at you. There’s a lot going on. And we’re running a lot of different concepts. We’re just looking for that consistency. You’ve been around long enough to know when a guy’s got that ‘dog,’ that nastiness coaches want. Which guys on this offensive line have that ‘dog’ in them? MT: Obviously, Olin [Kreutz] is a maniac, and he’s a great, great, great competitor. My other veteran Roberto, he’s a great competitor. Those two guys aren’t gonna back down from anything. I think Chris, because he’s gone against Peppers so much is learning how to fight. I really do. I think Frank [Omiyale] is competing well. He just needs to understand what kind of effort it’s gonna take for us to be an elite offensive line. He’s working to that end. I look at Lance, and he’s a fighter. Probably the guy (laughing) who’s got the dog in him the most, and he’s getting the least amount of reps, is the Chief. You know, [No.] 79 [Jamarcus Webb]; the rookie? That guy’s a fighter, now.

Other than the OL switch, which was already reported and discussed, I don't see many huge shocks here. The one surprise to me was Clark at HB. The main reason that was a surprise for me is because I would have expected Manu to be the starting HB.

Hey, simple works for me too. Maybe in the future, when other "issues" we are still trying to workout are settled we can look into new ways to do this or that, like the draft. I tend to agree with you that this year, with so many other issues still being discussed, simple is better. I still vote for a random draft order, regardless how we do it.

For me, the key is for the draft to be random. Simply do not understand the logic behind using last years rankings for the draft this year. The real life NFL rules in this regard simply do not carry over (IMHO). As for how it is done, I could not care less. The pre-season thing sounded fun, but I just don't care. I just like the random aspect. As for allowing teams to choose where they pick, again, I would be fine with that. If, for example, computer spits out the random order, and I have the 1st pick but want the 5th, pick, I get to choose. I like that. Exception to this is if we allow 1st round keepers. I should not be allowed to "choose" the 10th pick and keep my 1st from last year, thus giving me the 1st pick in the 2nd round. Know what I mean?

To me, this is awesome news. If Loius is in fact our new RG, that means he beat out Garza for the job. While I don't think Garza is great, the staff liked him and he was one of the more entrenched veterans. Louis was not just handed the job, but earned it. And I like Garza moving to LG. We will see if the left suits him better, but if not, we have others to play there. One thing I like is we now have a veteran to play alongside Williams, which I think could prove very beneficial. I have complained for years about the poor OL coaching, and while the season has yet to even start, I am seeing/hearing so much "evidence" of just how bad our last OL coach was. Listen to the players, and they constantly talk about the 1,000 little things Tice goes over with them, like its new. Stuff as simple as dropping your arms or shoulders Tice picks up on and works with the players. Another thing is the development of young OL. In the past, Angelo has taken plenty of OL late in the draft, but it seemed like a wasted pick. Other teams can develop later round OL, but not us. Suddenly we have a new OL coach, and we now have young players showing promise and developing. Yea, there is a long way to go, but it sure seems like a fresh start to me. Lemon, While you can take it with a grain of salt, the team is saying the saw Louis as an OL all along, but reported him initially in order to be able to tell undrafted rookie FAs they didn't draft any OL, thus thinking they would be able to offer the rookie FAs a better opportunity. Maybe its BS, but the offseason is all about games, so I wouldn't be surprised. Other than how they reported Louis initially, which created a lot of talk among fans, the team pretty much has always said he was OL.

Brass Cojones

I still think Pisa has more upsite. While Roach may be younger, I simply don't see him as much more than an average player. Pisa I see more as a playmaker. Either way, this is a good situation to have though. So long as both are happy, we should be solid with whoever wins, and have great depth to boot.

1/2 - While I don't want to give up all hope, I do agree that moving around our OL so much does not seem like a good thing? Its one thing if your backups move around. In that, I can see the argument you want your depth to be practiced multiple positions. But we moving Garza, for example, to LG just doesn't seem like a good thing. I guess the optimistic way of looking at this could be, if Louis is looking that good at RG, and has won the job, Tice wants to look at Garza at LG. But does anyone really believe this? Like you, I fear we are shuffling these players around because they simply are not looking great thus far at the positions they were originally placed in to compete at. 3. From what I read, a big part of what Martz has been doing is attacking "our" defense. In other words, he is calling plays that attack our defenses weaknesses, thus why Knox has been the biggest WR thus far as he has been attacking a weakness in the intermediate area of the cover two, while Olsen has been attacking the deep middle. Honestly, for me, I only see this is as a positive. Sure, it can go away, but (a) there was so much concern about whether Martz would use the TE, I think the signs we are seeing thus far at least provide positive signs and ( the better Olsen looks in camp, the more likely Martz is to follow up on playing him once the season begins. 4. Omiyale worries me more due to the number of false starts and overall poor play that has been reported. Still, Peppers dominating our OTs doesn't worry me too much. When I read about Anderson, Wooten, etc consistently dominating our OTs, then I will start to worry. 5. Still plenty to prove, but at least for now, it is a positive sign.

I aim to annoy For some reason I just don't give a damn about debating the rules. I'll be even more annoying by giving my answers here and unintentionally As much as I love to debate, I am with you. I just want things settled. Give up one round higher unless it's in the 1st round (I'll elaborate) Can you keep 1st rounders. Yes. I say this for two reasons: 1. If a guy takes you to the championship, and since it's a keeper league, the manager should have the chance to retain them. 2. I really don't mind doing this since the plan often backfires. For instance, if you'd taken Brian Westbrook in the first in 2008, you'd have been happy as hell to take him #1 in 2009 since it's a PPR league. That's not much of a reward. But it allows the manager to make his own bad decision. Okay, give up one round higher, but still allow to keep 1st round picks. My vote is random. But if I may complicate thingsngs by presenting a 3rd option: I like the idea of a manager being able to pick their draft spot. If given the choice, last year I'd have chosen to go 7th or 8th since I was 110% convinced that Tom Brady was going to repeat his 2008 performance and I figured he'd be available. (ironically, he was there at #10, I drafted him, and he wasn't even a top 5 fantasy QB). How about this: We do something random like, "How many points will the Bears score in their first 3 pre-season games?" (I say 1st 3 because we need to get this determined ASAP) Whoever guesses the closest, gets to choose their spot. 2nd picks 2nd, and so on. The tie-breaker could be points the defense allows. Did I mention that you are killing me Actually, I kind of like your proposal. Very very different, with a fun element. I say that if "random" wins, we go with this proposal.

I perfer one keeper, so it keeps the draft fresh and more interesting. Agreed. I think you should be able to keep the keeper for the year you picked him and the next year. Otherwise, why have a keeper league, might as well just draft. Huh? The minimum discussion for the keeper is the year you picked him and the next year, which you mention. Some though would like an additional year or two on top of that. Sort of like a franchise player. Or did I misunderstand you post, and that you would like to keep a player the original draft year, and two years after that? I perfer losing the round you picked the keeper in to be skipped. If we do the round before, it eliminates the first round and most of the teams have there best player picked in that round if they are any good. While other areas I have a preference, this is one I simply truly disagree with. I prefer to eliminate the 1st round. Last year may not be the best example of this, but think about all those years players like LT, Larry Johnson, etc simply dominated the top of the draft. Did a team really do anything special to draft LT? No, they simply got lucky when the computer spit out the draft order. I just do not agree with rewarding an owner by allowing him to keep the league's elite simply because the computer spit out a favorable draft slot. I far more like rewarding owners who hit gold on picks later that exploded onto the scene, like your pick of Ray Rice. To me, the keeper option should reward the owner who had the forsight to take a player like Ray Rice, rather than the owner who simply was lucky when the computer spit out the draft order allowing them to take MDJ or whoever near the top. What ever we do with the money, just make sure it gets posted now instead of leaving it open. Agreed totally, and I think most feel that way. Unless I hear anyone scream about it, I think we can simply put this aspect of the discussion in the hands of the commish. Seems everyone is pretty okay with most anything here, so long as the decision is set in advance.

Technically speaking, I have about 4 players, maybe more, I would like to keep as well. Mendenhall, Hakeem Nicks, Rothlisberger (despite the suspension) and Celek. All were taken after the 13th round I think, with Rothlisberger and Celek being closer to the 20 spot. Also have a couple nearer the top that wouldn't hurt to keep depending on compensation. But while I would love to add these players, I just hate to dilute the draft too much. I had thought about adding a franchise player element to our league (getting to keep one player forever) but seriously. We are taking months to decise the most basic things. No way I want to complicate the issue further.

Flea, I guess it depends on what you most like. For me, the draft is one of the most fun aspects of FF (even if my drafting isn't all that). You put a lot of time and energy into research and setup for your draft, and then have the event. If every team keeps a bunch of players, the draft really ends up being close to a joke. Not saying 2 keepers would do this, but if you have a bunch, you would end up with DA or Hester being 1st round picks. So those who usually only want one keeper likely love the draft, and don't want to dilute it too much, while also liking the idea of being able to keep your best player or best value player from the previous year. In regard to compensation, some basic concepts carry over for me. I don't love the idea of keeping 1st rounders because (a) your first round picks are as often as not based on the luck of draft order. AP was one team X because team X got lucky when the computer spit out the draft order. Team Z simply never had a chance to draft AP. After the 1st round, every player has been passed on by every owner, and thus, that argument no longer applies. And ( as said before, if you allow 1st round keepers, you take too many elite players out of the draft, diluting it. Now, looking at last years 1st round, that argument doesn't look as strong, but more often I think the previous year's 1st round picks are likely this year's first round picks. Finally, compensation. I am a very big proponent on giving up a round earlier than drafted. It brings a higher level of strategy into the mix. Take the team that drafted Chris Johnson in the 2nd. To me, if he wants to keep CJ, that is fine, but it would cost him his 1st round pick. Ditto for someone who took X in the 3rd. Cost his a 2nd. It brings a level of strategy because you have to ask, as good as that player is, would you be better off keeping a guy who broke out last year and you only spent a 10th on, or the stud who would cost you a high pick. I like leagues that reward for taking chances on draft day, and simply getting to keep your top picks from the previous year doesn't really fit that mold.

Brad, your killing me. Thanks you for the 1 keeper vote, but how about the other issues which must be decided, and detailed in the first post. What do you give up to keep that player. Can you keep 1st rounders. How do we setup draft order. Those, IMHO, are the big ones which must be decided.

That was F'ing hysterical!

Brad, just vote. Pix doesn't have to because he choose not to be in the league this year. Mad is taking his team. The sooner everyone puts in their vote, the sooner we can move past this BS.

I bet your diamond in the rough players is some kid from a small school with a history of injuries, some character issues, and who doesn't have a true position, but is one hell of an athlete.

I thought you were JA. That would have explained drafting Brandon Jacobs in the 2nd Just having fun. My drafting also was very Angelo esq

I would compare him though to a rookie RB drafted high w/ high expectations. Kolb is being listed pretty high, despite lack of experience, in most pre-draft boards I have seen. Despite his lack of experience, if he is being drafted as a top 10 QB (or near that) is he really a sleeper?

As it mentions in the article, I am not sure it is so much a matter of Knox being Cutler's favorite target so much as Knox playing the position that most often hits the hole(s) of our defense. Doesn't this say something about our defense too? Martz easily knows the holes in our D, and calls plays to hit those holes. You would think our DC would counter this, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I'll say this. While there are plenty of concerns about our offense, OL being the tops, the WRs are really having a solid showing. Knox is looking very good, as is Hester. DA has, per the article, the best pass/catch ratio of the group. Olsen is being used downfield, and looking good in the process. Man, if our OL can get it together, this could be one hell of an offense.

I do love that we're arguing over the fact that we have too many great players from history.... Ever been to the HOF? It is pretty dated, but so cool for a Bear fan due to how much we have there. I remember when I went, Chicago had a large display area in one room, loaded with stuff, while TB at the time was more like a little pedestal. That's the thing. We have more players in the HOF than any other team in the NFL. We simply have so many players that when you are talking about the 50 greatest players, the bar is set pretty damn high.

I think it is pretty well known that defenses are further ahead when camp starts, and with the OL learning a new scheme, new blocking technique, as well as several new faces to new positions, the reasons for their being behind the D are that much great. I agree it is not time to panic, but (a) Omiyale seems to be standing out in a bad way. Too many false start penalties and getting beaten like a drum on a regular basis. Its one thing to get beat by Peppers, but I believe I have read about him getting beated by Anderson, Wooten and Lovie's grandma. Because we have Shaffer, Omiyale not being capable of playing RT may not be the end of the world, but my concern is, like last year, the team will leave him out there regardless of performance. ( As for the OL as a whole, while it is not time to panic, I do have to question whether we were realistic in our belief they could perform well enough soon enough. OL takes time to gell, and with several new starters, including some youth, we are no exception. Throw in all the rest of the new stuff, and I just wonder if this won't be a situation similar to last year. Bad OL early on, but improvement during the season to the point it looks decent or better by the end. Problem is, by that point it may be too late.