jason

I'm just throwing this in here because it's a discussion about LBs. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10586753...es-nfl-comeback Rolando McClain, if healthy and motivated, could be a supreme talent at a severely discounted price. Might be worth kicking the tires on a try out.

Hell, even if don't give a shit about trading Briggs. I've always though he was a bit overrated, tackled poorly, and benefitted greatly from having a HOF'er next to him.

Precisely.

Dude, eat shit and die. I've listened, but those are counter/additional to what was being said about his "value." If all that was said was "need extra roster spot" or "gotta save cap room" then this is a non-issue. It makes more sense in those terms to benefit both ways by using a young burner, who also plays WR, and gets paid a lot less. But what was being said was essentially "he's not that good anymore," which simply isn't true. He is still very good, but he's not superhuman like he once was.

Pretty sure I've already said in this thread. Not a ton, but above vet minimum and after a minor negotiation, I think he'd get 1.5-2M.

Exactly. Why can't the "Hester is worth no more than get minimum"-be supported with any sort of data? I've laid out a pretty compelling case as to why he's still valuable. The only real answers for him leaving are other than ability.

I don't believe that's true. Your logic fails because in my scenario the LB and secondary are above average. The Bears last year were below average in all three levels of defense. You put last year's DL with Otis Wilson, Mike Singletary, and Wilbur Marshall and you'd have ENTIRELY different results.

That's a cop out. The article is summed up by the final sentence: "Replacing him with a two-way player will give the Bears more roster flexibility and help from a salary cap perspective." If that's your stance, then it's more understandable. But your previous statements weren't ringing that bell. You said: "Great player in his prime but he has already been paid. " "I absolutely believe Hester is not worth any more than the vet minimum. I believe it is time to move on." Saying it's a good move because of salary cap or roster flexibility is one thing, saying that Devin Hester is simply not worth more than vet minimum is completely different. And wrong based on his efforts last year.

With the 15th pick in the 6th round, the Chicago Bears select Tom Hornsey, Punter, Memphis.

Everyone hear knows I'm a bit advocate of trench warfare considering my multi-year OL rant. On defense, however, I don't believe it's the same. On offense, if the QB loses efficacy, the entire offense dies. So there is a premium on protecting the QB with a good OL. On defense, there is no single player being defended behind the DL. It's entirely possible to have average players on the DL with a superior 2nd and 3rd level, and have great success. Upgrading the safeties allows the CBs to gamble more, which changes the timing on passing plays, which allows for the subpar DL to create more pressure/sacks. I believe a team with Ronnie Lott and Ed Reed in their prime would have so many crazy advantages in terms of play recognition and range that the defense could effectively send 6, if not 7, at the QB on just about every play, especially if you team them up with above average CBs like Peanut and Jennings.

The bolded part is very true, but knowing when that tipping point is not an exact science. Based on Devin Hester's production and ability, it's unlikely he'll turn into a complete bum in 2014.

Based on what? I just don't understand what basis you guys have to say Devin Hester is worth vet minimum only. There's absolutely no basis for it. His stats, his influence, and his ability all say he's worth more than vet minimum. BTW - Cutting Weems for the money he's getting is something with which I agree. Weems is DEFINITELY a vet minimum kind of player.

LMAO!! If SMC is leading the team, the stat has to be flawed somewhere.

When was that? Weems didn't make many plays at all, and of those very few were impact plays. Hester's big plays this year were significantly larger than anything Weems has done his entire career.

That's so hypocritical considering your stance on Urlacher. You've essentially said that past seasons didn't matter, and a. Player is worth what they are this year. Hester is worth more than vet minimum this upcoming year. That is almost undeniable.

Damn Right

But the PFF numbers go on a percentage based system, do they not? The potential flaw there is that with more snaps, there is more fatigue. It could be possible he's better suited for a rotational Mark Anderson type role, where he excels with fresh legs. And if given the chance to play full time DE, his explosion would diminish (i.e. Devin Hester when WR and returner).

This would be a bad move for a variety of reasons. First of which is his stats: Among players with at least 17 Punt Returns (one less than Hester), he is… 3rd in Punt Return Average 8th (tied) for 20+ yard Punt Returns 4th (tied) for 20+ yard Punt Return % 3rd (tied) for 40+ yard Punt Returns 2nd for 40+ yard Punt Return % 8th (tied) for longest Punt Return [81 yards] Among players with at least 20 Kickoff Returns, he is… 5th (tied) in KO Return Average 1st for 20+ yard KO Returns 4th for 20+ yard KO Return % 2nd for 40+ yard KO Returns 7th for 40+ yard KO Return % 5th for longest KO Return [80 yards] Second is the abnormal number of near misses. Remember Week 2 when he had kickoff returns of 76 and 80 yards? Both could have been TDs if not for one block. Freaking Steltz. Or Week 11, the one where Hester returned a punt for a TD (at about 2:20) but there was a holding call that brought it back? Freaking Steltz. What makes this one worse is that Steltz didn't even need to hold the guy. Or what about Week 13 when he broke one (about 1:53), but there were two unaccounted for tacklers which made it so Devin couldn't juke the kicker? And let's not forget Week 15 when he would have returned a punt against the Browns if Blake Costanzo had just blocked the kicker? Finally, what about the last week of the season when he nearly returned a punt (1:35) if it weren't for the fact that Weems missed the same guy twice in one play? Weems hits that guy early and Devin has his seam. All others are either locked up or too far away. THE MAN IS STILL A DANGEROUS WEAPON AND ONE OF THE BEST RETURN MEN IN THE NFL. PERIOD. Aside from that, he's a team player. He accepted the demotion last year and worked hard. It's not is fault the team dumped one of the best special teams coaches in the NFL, lost key ST contributors, and had a rash of injuries to others. If my research is right, his vet minimum would be $855K for 2014. He's worth that at the very least. The Bears should approach him as the veteran, team player, contributor, historically significant, long-standing Bear that he is, and offer him something around $1M. After Devin's agent negotiates, the price ends up somewhere around $1.25-$1.5M per year and it's for 2-3 years. Letting Hester go will be a mistake.

Dude, c'mon. If Whitner is garbage, then Conte is a pile of burning skunk carcasses.

Let's say the one or two guys the Bears wanted just left the board and absolutely nobody will trade up. If so... If Robinson or Matthews is there, you take him. Pass on Lewan because he will be there anyway. If Barr or Mack are there, you pass. That would be repeating the McClellin mistake, especially with Mack since he played horrible competition. If Watkins or Evans is there, you hope it's Watkins because he fits better. And then you take him.

Completely agree. The only caveat I'll make is that it takes a special kind of QB to accept the system, learn the system, and exploit the system's advantages. I don't believe anyone can say Cutler fully bought in the way McCown did.

Yeah, I'd prefer this approach and a solid guy in the draft. If HHCD were drafted in the first, and someone like Whitner were picked up, that immediately upgrades the Bears secondary by three-fold, and gives the Bears solid depth with Wright and Conte.

I'm probably the biggest advocate of OL and offense on this board, but even I recognize that 9/10 of this offseason needs to be defense. Now that the Center position is locked up, the only real addition I want to see on offense is a mid/late round draft pick (i.e. McCarron in the 4th). A potential field stretcher at WR (although this is low priority) would be nice. So, too, would a change-of-pace RB who can hit the homerun. Maybe a promising backup OG/C late. Right now, however, I think it should be DT/DE/LB/S until there aren't other options. And if Peanut leaves, add CB to that list.

The why not is because that same thing can be said about actual positions of need. Why not add another DT, DE, LB, S? Or for that matter, your other thread about RBs too. A good backup RB is WAY more important than a 3rd TE. Same goes for a 3rd player at just about any position. I'd much rather see a 3rd QB than a 3rd TE. The simple fact is, another TE is a luxury the Bears cannot afford for more the barest of minimums.

1. Bennett 2. Rosario 3. Who cares The Bears don't need to waste time/money/picks on another TE. Bennett will be in on 99% of plays anyway. The other few plays go to a guy like Rosario, who has the resume to be a suitable backup, and serves as a good blocker when needed. The Bears have more important holes at other positions to worry about a 3rd TE.