jason
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Posts posted by jason
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The thing that worries me the most about Wentz is the wrist. I broke mine two years ago, and despite surgery it has never felt right. There are a bunch of little bones in there, and it takes a lot of luck to get back to the original starting point. And he's had several injuries. If he was so good before last year, why did he regress last year? It's likely an accumulation of injuries. Read this take and form your own opinion:
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Easy question. What is Mack worth in trade? Some of y'all follow that type of stuff a lot more than I do. You're more keen on the salary cap implications.
The reason I ask is two-fold:
- Denver's defense wasn't good in 2020
- Fangio is their coach
What could the Bears get from them?
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23 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:
DBEARS, I agree with a lot of what you wrote above, but if a guy cant even make it as the starter in North Carolina until his senior year, I think youve got to consider that to put intangibles into context.
Mahomes was a winner in college, and Trubisky wasnt. If Im taking a QB #2 overall, hes got to have won something.100% agree. I'll go one further. If you're going to draft someone #2, after trading up from #3, that guy not only should have won something, but he should have had several "HOLY S#!T" moments in college. To be honest, the red flags from Trubisky were glaring, and I can't really understand why so many were so enamored with him. I remember breaking this down somewhere on the board when he was being discussed, but the dude had a bad game every time he faced a decent team his senior year.
- 24/40, 156yds vs UGA
- 13/33, 58yds, 2INTs vs VT
- 23/39, 280yds, 2TDs, 2INTs vs Stanford
I guess Pace must have loved when Trubisky was lighting up James Madison.
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2 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:
it's possible that he feared it. But he should have taken Mahomes.
At the time Watson made the most sense after tearing NCAA football a new ass. That made a lot more sense that Mitch. And it made a metric ton more sense than trading up for Mitch.
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Salt in the wound from Hub. Brings up some good points about questions nobody is asking, and all the more reason - other than the franchise-sacrificing trade - Watson to the Bears is a bad idea.
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12 hours ago, BearFan2000 said:
It's been reported that the Texans have named their price tag and it's steep. Two first rounders, two second rounders, and two young defensive starters, as a starting point.
HELL NO.
12 hours ago, Connorbear said:Would you trade 2 1sts for Dak?
Peace
HELL NO.
10 hours ago, BearFan2000 said:With pace anything's possible he could even trade up to take a QB or player that would have otherwise been there at 20, etc. Only given with Pace is there will be some head scratching selections.
Please, Dear God, please stop Pace from even thinking trading up to take a QB.
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Check this out. ESPN's take on the state of the NFL, where teams stand in terms of how close to the SB they are, and the write up on the Bears. Interesting that the Bears are the lowest rated team in their list out of all the teams that made the playoffs. To me it's interesting for two reasons. One, because they realize the Bears weren't really playoff quality. Two, because they realize the Bears are missing several pieces of the puzzle.
Which all makes one question why in the hell are Pace and Nagy around for another year?
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On 1/29/2021 at 9:16 AM, Mongo3451 said:
Hate both. I'm too old for this shit...
Same. Traditional is traditional because it's great looking and everyone knows/loves it already.
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On 1/30/2021 at 11:58 PM, Alaskan Grizzly said:
So now that Stafford is LA bound and provided this was true, does that set a barometer on the Bears chances for legitimate trade opportunities of other available QBs like Watson? Watson has to be worth more than what LA gave up for Stafford. (???) And since Chicago didn’t pull this off...maybe they’ll have to focus more on the draft?
Exactly what I was thinking about. If Stafford is worth two 1st round picks, a 3rd round pick, and an average QB who is better than Trubisky or Foles, then WTF will it take to get Watson? I'd guess THREE 1st round picks, or two 1st round picks and two 2nd round picks. Either way, that price tag is far too high for a team with numerous holes to fill.
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On 1/29/2021 at 6:15 PM, ASHKUM BEAR said:
How far back does this go? Angelo, Emery, and now Pace. Is it the GM or is there a master behind the curtains pulling the strings? Is Virginia making these picks? The Bears might as well go the Raiders way and hire Mel Kiper.
Since I do not think Pace or Nagy survive and are gone after next year, they should be forced to follow a safe draft script. RD1) LT RD2) RT RD3) WR RD4) QB
It's an interesting question I never considered. Maybe the Bears are actually hiring competent GMs, but they're just being handcuffed by upper management? All I know is, the guys who have been drafting for the Bears for years have not been doing well.
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Go-Go Golladay would be fine with me. I wanted him the year he was drafted.
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3 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:
So I'll throw out my acquire Watson scenario - with the caveat that - my trading only works if the Bears can accumulate some extra assets this year so that really you are making a huge investment in Watson today - recognizing the step to greatness isn't going to happen overnight (because from a cap/asset perspective - they will have issues) - but having that true franchise QB is where you have to start. If Bears unequivocally believe Watson is that guy - than I think almost any price is worth it - because it isn't just about the next 1-2 years - it is about the 5-8 year window you have with an elite QB.
I will also note - I don't see the Bears getting Watson by having the absolute strongest package - so at some point - Watson is going to have to tip the scales a bit in the Bears favor for this to work. The Bears will clearly not be the best team looking to acquire Watson - so for this to work - Bears are going to have to convince Watson (from ownership to GM to coach) that he is their guy and that they are going to build this entire franchise around him and make him a legend in Chicago and around the NFL. Endorsement deals - Love of the City - etc. But realistically - they are going to have to sell them on their commitment to do that over time - cause there is almost no scenario where I see Watson arriving and the Bears just being immediate superbowl contenders - unless instead of what I do below - the Bears sell like the next 4 years worth of draft picks - which I do not condone.
Step 1: Move Mack - Get maximum value and my hope is you are talking at least 2 2nd round picks (ideally you get a 1st and a 2nd - even if one of those is a future pick - I don't care). And for those that say you can't get that - I don't believe it. All advance metrics still say Mack is a well above average pass-rusher and while his production dipped with the Bears - he's still widely viewed as an elite player and pass rushers (next to QB's) still have high value. This is a move that is necessary - as Bears need to find other assets - plus I think they need to move Mack for increased flexibility in terms of future cap usage (think 2022 & beyond).
Note: I do this in almost any scenario if I were the Bears front office - because I think they need to find a way to develop their offense and I think Mack gets in the way. Although I would caveat this is something they could always do in another year (presuming Mack doesn't suffer a serious injury) and potentially under a new front office (depending on how 2021 goes).
Step 2: Franchise and trade Allen Robinson - Get whatever you can for him - maybe it is a 2nd round pick - maybe it is a future 2nd round pick or 3rd round pick - but you can not fit Robinson's contract on the Bears. As much as I like Robinson - with the holes this club has - you can't afford paying Allen Robinson $20M per year;
Note: I do not know whether the Bears can do what I outline above and still be in a cap position to fit Watson's contract under the books - but I'll leave that to another post who can verify or not.
Step 3: Trade your 1st round pick, your 2nd round pick, the picks you acquired for Mack (1st round & future 2nd round) and next years 1st round and 2nd round pick - for Deshaun Watson.
That would be 3 1st round picks (2 in this years draft; 1 next year) & 3 2nd round picks (1 this year & 2 next year (1 being the Bears & 1 being a pick you got from Robinson or the other Mack pick). I personally don't think that deal alone is going to be as good as what a team like Miami could offer - and maybe it isn't enough or I'm unrealistic in what I can get for Mack/Robinson (its possible).
If that is the case - an alternative would be packaging Roquan Smith in the deal - although my preference would be to keep him as a young defender.
In this scenario - Bears still potentially have a 2nd round pick and than the rest of their draft after 1st round and only essentially mortgaged next years 1st / 2nd rounders as well.
None of the above is probably realistic - but hey - its a starting point. The thing I don't know is how much cap space / would they have cap space to do this?
Your scenario is doable, and I'm actually fine with Steps 1 & 2, but overall Step 3 is a huge hell no from me. There is no way he's worth three 1st and three 2nd round picks. That would make me want to vomit. Losing two more years of first and second round picks is just not acceptable with so many holes on the team.
Now, pulling off the Mack and ARob trades to get more picks and then using those picks, that would be outstanding. 1st, 1st (Mack), 2nd, 2nd (ARob), 2nd (Mack) would allow the Bears to truly start a rebuild.
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22 hours ago, Stinger226 said:
Are you a pro scout? I have read some bad and good reports about him. There is only one stud in this draft Trevor Lawrence, and top prospects have failed before. I personally like Zach Wilson but he will never be available at 20 , plus , I'm not a pro scout so my opinion only matters to me.
The "are you a pro scout" or "are you a GM" argument is so tired. If that meant anything, the Bears wouldn't have been terrible 30 of the past 35 years. Furthermore, Pace has unequivocally shown a propensity to draft not only poorly, but trade up for poor selections.
Hell, look no further than how many of us hated not only the Trubisky pick, but also the trade up for him, which is the primary reason the Bears have sunk to where they are now. Having a pick that high is transformative for an organization, and Pace not only struck out, but but he paid the pitcher to do it. Just about any one of us would have had similar success to Pace over his tenure. We would have hits and misses, some seriously boneheaded picks, but he's missed far more than he has hit. We would have done the same out of sheer luck and percentage.
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20 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:
If you hate Joe Buck (and hey, who doesn't?) you'll enjoy watching ALL of this
Two Parts:
Part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj8y2Oi1lFk
Part 2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed1p8kuaDawLMAO!!!! That's HILARIOUS!!! Artie destroyed him!! That felt like Christmas.
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16 hours ago, ParkerBear7 said:
In this mock, I have the Bears trading down targeting QB Mac Jones, Edge, and some OT’s early. I’d be very pleased with a draft like this.
32.
Mac Jones
QB Alabama
52.
Jayson Oweh
EDGE Penn State
62.
Spencer Brown
OT Northern Iowa
69.
Walker Little
OT Stanford
110.
Tutu Atwell
WR Louisville
116.
Marquez Stevenson
WR Houston
158.
Trill Williams
CB Syracuse
172.
Paris Ford
S Pitt
181.
Isaac Slade-Matautia
LB Oregon
197.
Master Teague
RB Ohio StateHonestly, I wouldn't be excited about this. I'd be OK, but not excited. Definitely my SEC bias. It's because of the schools. No.Iowa, Stanford, Louisville, Houston, Syracuse, Pitt...just not that exciting. Feels like a bunch of guys who get cut because they're not that athletic or don't transition to the pro game very well.
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1 hour ago, BearFan NYC said:
Id love to see some draft projections without trades too.
I was thinking the same thing earlier. What is available with the extra picks? Well, here's a different approach. What if the Bears just decided to maximize Foles and see what he can do?
Your score is: 35508 (GRADE: A-)
Your Picks:
Round 1 Pick 20: Christian Darrisaw, OT, Virgina Tech (B)
Round 2 Pick 20: Liam Eichenberg, OT, Notre Dame (B+)
Round 3 Pick 19: Seth Williams, WR, Auburn (A+)
Round 5 Pick 20: LaBryan Ray, DT/DE, Alabama (A+)
Round 6 Pick 20: Feleipe Franks, QB, Arkansas (A+)
Round 6 Pick 34 (COMP): Jaelan Phillips, DE/OLB, Miami (A+)
Round 6 Pick 38 (COMP): Shawn Davis, FS/SS, Florida (B+)
Round 6 Pick 40 (COMP): Master Teague, RB, Ohio State (A-)
Round 7 Pick 4: Ed Ingram, OG, LSU (A+)I'd be ecstatic with this draft. Darrisaw is a monster, and Eichenberg slipping to the 2nd would be a steal. Add a weapon on offense, a QB with potential (Jones and Trask gone in 2nd), and two freaky DL prospects, and that's the plan to replace Arob, Hicks, and Massie.
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20 hours ago, Bill said:
Im old and getting senile. Help me understand your logic. Pile picks that mostly get talent that can just as well be gotten after the draft as undrafted free agents. Why would a team give up a 5th or 4th for a few 6th+7th rounds picks, that you say,r a long shot at best? Not saying it has never or will ever not be done. But I don't see why one would.
I think you reverse translated me. I'm saying take the 5th-7th round picks and attempt to trade them to another team. Dumping those picks to get one more 3rd or 4th round pick for the Bears would be ideal.
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On 1/18/2021 at 9:14 PM, ASHKUM BEAR said:
Mac Jones QB goes 1 pick before Bears every time... so Trask it is with a trade down. The trade nets a big WR and we take another Irish lineman. 3rd is a big DE/DT to help fill in rotation. NW LB to compete for ILB, playmaking slot WR/KR, a box SS with smarts, aggressive RB with burst. CB w size and another RT prospect.
Round 1 Pick 27 (T.B.): Kyle Trask, QB, Florida (A-)
Round 2 Pick 20: Liam Eichenberg, OT, Notre Dame (A)
Round 2 Pick 27 (T.B.): Tamorrion Terry, WR, Florida State (A)
Round 3 Pick 19: Tedarrell Slaton, DT, Florida (A+)
Round 5 Pick 20: Blake Gallagher, ILB, Northwestern (A+)
Round 6 Pick 20: Kadarius Toney, WR, Florida (A+)
Round 6 Pick 34 (COMP): Greg Eisworth, SS, Iowa State (A+)
Round 6 Pick 38 (COMP): Obi Eboh, CB, UCLA (A+)
Round 6 Pick 40 (COMP): Master Teague, RB, Ohio State (A-)
Round 7 Pick 4: Drew Himmelman, OT, Illinois State (AGood draft. I'd rather figure a way to get that second OT higher in the draft. However...
- Trask is better than Trubisky. Great pick.
- Trask would get to throw to a huge, home run threat as well as a familiar target.
- Trask would be protected by a stud OT.
Is that so difficult? Why can't the Bears ever do this? Draft a QB and then protect him and surround him with talent. If the year goes on and he's under pressure a lot, guess what? Go with OL again until it's fixed. Why in the world won't this franchise protect the #1 asset, the most important position on the entire team?
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On 1/18/2021 at 8:00 AM, adam said:
Actually those have some valuable. Maybe not in and of themselves, but coupled with the other picks, they can move up in another round. They could take one of the comp picks and move up into the early 5th with their original 5th, and then take another comp and trade it with the current 6th to move into the late 5th. So there is some value there. Not a lot but some. Then you can use the last one on a punter, so you are not using original picks on special teamers.
Honestly, I think teams should pile all the 7th and 6th rounders together that they can, maybe even with the 5th rounders, to move into the 4th or higher. Most of the 5th-7th guys are a long shot at best, and similar talent can often be found via FA and/or undrafted players.
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On 1/19/2021 at 11:14 AM, adam said:
So you wouldn't trade Gabe Carimi, Shea McClellin, and Kyle Long for Watson? How about Kevin White, Leonard Floyd, and Mitch Trubisky?
Also, if you are a good team that makes the playoffs, you would be consistently drafting in the 20s. The #1 pick is worth 3000, the #24 pick is worth 720, so it would take 4x #24's to get the #1 pick. So if you view Watson as a #1 pick value, giving up 3 firsts would be worth it. The 16th pick is worth 1000, so you would have to expect to be drafting in the top 15 to lose out on that trade.
I think the mathematical part of this is overpowering the common sense of it. Sure, the math of 720+720+720 is less than 3000, and the guy worth 3000 in this case has incredible talent, but this is a team game. If we were to take Gabe Carimi, Shea McClellin, and Kyle Long and assign them a value, it wouldn't be 720 each their first year. Carimi was easily a 1000ish (mid-1st) guy his first year before the freak knee injury. Shea sucked, and 90% of this board called it when he was drafted, but he was still a starter for a few years. Let's call him 500, like a 2nd round pick like he should have been. Finally, Long was all-rookie, 3 time pro bowler, and a monster his first three years. You have to slot him like an early first rounder. Let's say 1500. That would be the more realistic math, and a solid start to a team.
A first rounder with immense talent can fail, however, if the surrounding talent is so subpar that the talented guy doesn't have the freedom to display said talent. In other words, Jay Cutler being traded to Chicago.
Cutler got destroyed his first two years. Absolutely planted over and over again. Led the league in being sacked. Then he was gun-shy, and never the same guy again. Meanwhile, the Bears used guys like Devin Aromashodu, Rashweed Davis, Dane Sanzenbacher, and Roy Williams when they realized Johnny Knox, Devin Hester, and Earl Bennet weren't #1 WRs. Additionally, they built an OL of guys like Frank Omiyale, JMarcus Webb, and Lance Louis, worth about 50 points combined, to protect the guy worth several thousand in Draft Trade Value.
If getting Watson means giving up multiple first rounders, which it appears it will, then it's a bad move for a franchise that wants to win. Great for tickets, but bad for wins.
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I don't see why everyone is so quick to dump on him as a coach. He only had one full year after taking over a garbage team with minimal talent. And then he had some difficulty with a noted shit-head and others who wouldn't buy into the culture of discipline. After that, the team made some great draft picks and was finding their way before he was let go. All it took was one more good draft class and a few FAs and the team was much better.
I've heard too many people say multiple times that a new Bears' coach needs to be given 3 years, etc., before judging or condemning them. To give the new guy a chance. And that's with 99% of us recognizing a bonehead move. Well, if the 49ers had given him a chance, it is extremely likely the success would have come based on the year after he left.
If I had a vote, it would be an unequivocal yes. This Bears defense needs a spark, and Singletary would bring it.
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2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:
You would have loved the thread where we were slamming Pace for trading two complete drafts away.
Yep. I HAAAAATE trading up. When the entire thing is a gamble, you have much more success with extra picks. It's like having a million powerball tickets versus having 1. Of course, I'm not talking about trading everything away for the entire 7th round (i.e. scratch offs), but in general the extra picks help.
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On 1/10/2021 at 9:34 PM, Mongo3451 said:
Just rattling this off. Robinson is likely too expensive. Wims and Miller are idiots. Mooney is typecast as a #2 but is a prototypical slot. Ridley somehow has not developed. So, in theory, we need to come up with a 1 and 2 WR. How does this get accomplished?
Speaking strictly on WRs, it's the same answer as per usual: Draft capital. The Bears should 100% trade down in the draft because there are several needs. They should attempt to accumulate multiple picks and take flyers on some guys who will likely fall to the 3rd or 4th. Here are a few.
- Tamorrion Terry, WR, Florida State (6'4") - He's intriguing because he's going to get a bad rap from team and school, will likely drop some, but has potential to be a #1.
- Trevon Grimes, WR, Florida (6'5") - Interesting based upon explosion.
- Warren Stewart, WR, Colorado State (6'6") - Sat out for the year. Could slip as a result.
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25 minutes ago, madlithuanian said:
I watched coach Nagy give up play-calling and see some success with Coach Bill Lazor. Then, I watched coach Nagy take the play-calling back, which resulted in some less than stellar performances against our most bitter rivals, the Packers and the Saints.
Wait. Was this confirmed somewhere?! I didn't even know it and I called it watching both games. It reeked of Nagy.
If so, figures they shit the bed. That dude has no clue how to serve as a play-caller and maximize his players' abilities.
Tampa Bay Bears
in Bearstalk
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I think there are some blue/orange glasses looking at the offensive comparisons. Evans is a monster; ARob is good. Their OL rocks; Brady would have died with the Bears' OTs. Jones and Fournette are definitely better. Also, Gronk had five less targets, way more yards, and one less TD; he's better than Graham.