jason

Nope. They could easily have called it, would have been supported, and would have been right. Some might have said just like Gruden, "You don't decide the game" (which would kind of have made him a hypocrite), but with an OPI that bad it would have been difficult to argue against.

For the record, after reading the NFL rule book, the call was wrong and I reverse my decision. But it's not because the play is obvious, it's because the verbiage of the rule.

GREAT POINT! My conspiracy theory is that the NFL actively wants the Packers to do well, and they try to institute changes to the rules and how the officials manage the game, so that the Packers get the advantages when possible. And now that those old hats are gone, and the new guys are there, the new guys don't have the subtle ability to pull it off. Or don't know about it. And as a result, the monster that was Green Bay's offense is currently 25th in total offense.

If that's your perspective, I understand it better. I don't necessarily agree, because we don't know what he's doing on each play, but I understand it. It would also explain why you have a quicker tendency to say he's holding onto the ball, because you believe Cutler to be waiting for only Marshall to get open.

hahahahaha. Glass houses, Warren. Brandon Marshall destroyed him.

Sorry, Lucky, but on the OPI you're 100% wrong. That simply never is getting called, from pee-wee to the pros. As for the catch, I'll make a three part case for dual possession (which goes to the WR) before slightly changing my opinion from last night: 1. The NFL rule for possession says nothing about two hands or anything similar. "When a player controls the ball throughout the act of clearly touching both feet, or any other part of his body other than his hand(s), to the ground inbounds." 2. Tate had a hand on the ball. 3. NFL WRs make one-handed catches all the time. I admit it's a tough call no matter how you slice it, and the safer choice is to go with Jennings over Tate because of the 2 hands vs. 1 hand idea. But keep in mind that the rule says both feet. By the time both of Jennings' feet hit the ground it's pretty clear that Tate is in there with both hands. It doesn't matter if one player has the ball closer to him, or the players' relative position to the ground/each other. This picture, however, presents a good case for an INT (even though we don't know at what point this was taken):

Hyperbole aside (i.e. all star OL), the bolded part is probably not argued against by many. But the second half was rock-solid by the Packers' OL. I'm sure that provides Rodgers with a lot of confidence, knowing that his guys can put it together on a consistent basis. Sure, they imploded in the first half, but they played pretty well in the second half. Cutler, on the other hand, can never be sure of such a performance, nor can he expect sustained play from his OL. Nobody is saying Cutler is better than Rodgers, or that other QBs don't face some pressure. Those are both semi-strawmen. The simple fact is, however, that Cutler is probably greatly affected by the fact that the OL can't get their stuff together for more than a few plays in a row, and he is almost assured of taking a beating every game for the near duration of the game. I understand if he's rattled by it.

And if his presnap read is covered? What then? Is he supposed to immediately throw it away or run with it? If not, then do you factor everything after the first read as a slight on Cutler? Is the OL never supposed to give Cutler enough time to get to the second read?

I hope your optimism is correct.

FYI...an officiating perspective. 1. They NEVER call OPI on a hail mary. Never. He would have had to jump on two guys' backs, put both of them in headlocks, and do it WAY before the ball was close. 2. It was not a clear interception. Simultaneous possession goes to the WR. Gerry Austin has a slanted perspective because he's intimately linked to the locked out officials as well as the college officials who were told that accepting the NFL offer meant the end of their college career. Before the Green Bay DB was grounded there were four hands on the ball, two by each player. And Tirico doesn't know WTF he is talking about. Just think about it - if both players are standing up it's the player who comes down with the ball that is in possession. It doesn't matter whose feet hit first. When they came down with it, if anything the Seattle player was grounded first, and he definitely had two hands on the ball.

And what happened in the second half? Almost zero pressure...and whattaya know? Rodgers does better.

Bingo. Just like before, and before that. Remember when Jauron didn't deserve the extension and he got one? Remember when Lovie had the same problems he has now, yet the team overachieved and made him look good, resulting in Lovie's extension? Even during the Super Bowl year there was a lot of talk about Lovie's failings as a HC.

There's a wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide distance between astrophysics and football. I'm somewhere in the middle. You appear to be close to either the w or the d. Serious questions: How do you determine if the sack is Cutler's fault? How do you determine if he's "holding the ball too long"? It seems to me this is a common theme being claimed by many, but I honestly don't think it's the case. It's just that we're so used to seeing him get pounded like a $2 whore that we expect that, by now, he knows to get rid of the ball quicker. Of course, it's still not his fault that he's getting pounded, but it seems that his window of time to get rid of the ball is decreasing in the minds/eyes of his detractors. It seems that anything over a three-step drop, plant, throw is on Cutler. Three-step drop, plant, look for secondary read? On Cutler. I don't believe that is fair or accurate.

And it still kills me that you try to simplify the debate into a matter of sacks. That's far too simple to measure the OL's performance. Aside from that, it appears that anything over 1.5 seconds in the pocket is going to go against Cutler in your book.

This post makes me think something that I've said before, and others have mentioned this year, is the Bears' OL and play-calling turning Jay Cutler into David Carr?

I don't think it will be poorly received. The major difference on this board is with how much of the blame is to be levied against those responsible. I happen to think that Cutler, while playing average, is less deserving of the blame than the OL. Even today they didn't look good other than a handful of plays. He was hurried multiple times, hit multiple times, and there were several OL penalties. As said before, it's not just that the OL sucks, it's that they take turn doing things that suck. I've said for roughly five years that the primary focus for the Bears should be the OL. It remains relatively unaddressed, and Cutler is the worse for it. With that pressure, Cutler degrades in decision-making. But it's a chicken and egg thing. Regarding Tice, I don't think he's done that well. Which was completely anticipated. He called against a bad D in week one and looked smart. Got his ass handed to him in week two for being far too ambitious with play-calling considering the OL. And then, this week, it looked like he neutered the offense because of week 2. It's been done numerous times before on this board, but ultimately it ends with how much blame goes to each. Which percentage do you apply to each?

Wow. Bears offense is doing great right now!

And I'm quite sure he held the ball the same amount of time with Denver. For some strange reason, many are quick to blame Jay Culter for "holding the ball too long," as if he's always going to hit the max-depth on his drop - whether it is 3, 5, or 7 steps - and immediately throw the ball. Yeah, that philosophy works when you have Jerry Rice and it's 1988, but it doesn't always work like that today. The athletes are much faster and the defenses are much more complex. Jay will have to make reads and go to secondary receivers from time to time. Most QBs in the NFL have this luxury on a frequent enough basis to have some success. Jay does not have this luxury because the Bears OL takes turns screwing up. "Holding the ball too long" is pure judgement, and I think a lot of people like to blame Cutler for it too often when they wouldn't apply the same standards to other QBs.

I don't think it's that obvious, Alaska. I laugh at TONS of stuff. Hell, I spend hours a week laughing at random stuff on the internet. I love the Three Stooges. Chris Farley was hilarious (DOWN BY THE RIVER!). I probably laugh at things that would turn most peoples' stomachs and cause others to gasp. But the Jay Cutler smoking thing just isn't that funny to me. Instead of the Stooges and Farley, I'm thinking it's more "BBC Funny," which isn't really funny.

Alaska, please go back to the boards over the past two or three years when this issue has been discussed ad nauseum. Sacks are not nearly complete enough of a statistic to adequately describe or demonstrate why the OL has failed. It's but one measure in a collection. Now, if you can find sacks, pressures, hits, false starts, offensive holds (which would have been pressures and/or sacks), then you would have a much greater picture and truer representation of why the OL sucks. The other guys may have gotten sacked more, but it would take all of the aforementioned analysis - not to mention the consistency issue (i.e. the Bears OL taking turns screwing up as opposed to the Packers screwing up on one or two plays) to really see that they've not been under the gun nearly as much as Cutler.

This is the correct answer. But since the front office is not on the field, the brunt of the abuse is that which the front office refuses to fix. Watch this offseason when the Bears draft a DT in the first and a LB in the second.

I know one thing, when Jay yelled at Martz last year (presumably), most of this board had a circle-jerk about it. Well, guess what? Tice stuck by Webb, stuck by Spencer, and called a game that was a lot like a Martz game (i.e. iso on LT). If Jay gets tired of yelling at Webb, then he needs to direct attention to Tice.

A-FARKING-MEN.

I laugh at MANY internet oddities and memes, and am generally considered to possess a juvenile sense of humor, and the smoking Jay Cutler thing is not remotely funny. It's just a lame photoshop.

Against this defense, Danny Amendola is going to have a field day. The Bears concede the underneath routes as a basic principle of their defense. Expect him to have about 10 catches.