jason

I think he's got a bad attitude, but I also think some of this is overblown over the course of his 15 or 16 years. And he's apparently a great teammate while on the field. Aside from that, it still says nothing about his athletic ability...which was my entire point, and my thought process as to why the Bears - a team so desperate for WR help for multiple years - should have taken a flyer on him.

The Bears area already solid, but to take the next step I think the following needs to happen: 1. McClellin makes a significant impact - This would take weight of Peppers' shoulders and allow more defensive freedom 2. The defense needs to continue the trend away from the cover-2, and allow more rush/blitz freedom from the athletes being acquired. 3. Hester has more time on ST and less time at WR, which would help field position and result in a few TDs 4. Webb needs to be benched, the OL needs to be retooled, and Cutler needs to stay upright, which would solve the non-existent WR problem 5. Tice needs to prove he can call an effective offensive gameplan

First, I'm not mad, nor was I mad. I just think it's funny that someone as smart as you could continually avoid the question being asked. It's like you're in politics. To answer your question, a 2nd rounder starting on day 1 would make more sense than an UDFA starting on day 1. It's just common sense. It's so common it's not even worth talking about. I mean, there is a reason why the draft happens, and it's been statistically proven OVER AND OVER again that the higher the round the more likely to succeed. There are outliers for sure, but the overwhelming statistical data says that a player drafted higher has a better chance of succeeding. So, a 2nd rounder taking over a starting job would make more sense logically than an UDFA, and would be less of an indicator of the previous starter's ability, since, ya know, the guy who was drafted was considered good enough to get drafted in the 2nd round. The point is not whether the UDFA or 2nd rounder earns the job; the point is how weak the person was he is replacing. If an UDFA can come in and start, that has a higher likelihood of meaning that the replaced starter was not very good. Speaking of when people were drafted, enough with the "he was supposed to go in round X" nonsense. If he was supposed to go there, he would have. All 32 teams passed on him time and time again for whatever reason. They didn't like what they saw enough to draft him. Period. The fact that a hair-piece personality and multiple bloggers thought the dude was a 3rd or 4th rounder means absolutely nothing when all 32 teams decide he's not worthy of even getting a call in the 7th round.

Agreed, but his absence from the NFL is not due to a lack of physical ability or talent, as some have so incorrectly claimed. Teams are just weighing the baggage against the talent (i.e. off-field vs. on-field) and deciding the equation doesn't work out in their favor. That's fair, and TO is the blame. I've said this all along. I just get tired of hearing the naysayers talk about how the Bears have needed a WR year after year after year, and then when TO is available literally year after year after year, they don't want him because he's not a Boy Scout. There are WRs who fit the mold of uber-talented and model citizen, but as a group they are generally more animated or difficult to work with. TO's stats say he can still play in the NFL. Drew Pearson says he can still play in the NFL. Period. Now that the Bears have Marshall it's moot, but in years past it wasn't. To be so adamantly against TO on the Bears, while at the same time claiming the majority of the Bears problems on offense are related to a weak WR corp, is just contradictory unless a person is averse to all risk or chance. TO could have been the solution to the Bears problems for several years, but it's much more easy as an organization to take less risks, perpetually hang around .500 for a decade, string along a fiercely loyal fan base, and never go for the kill. It's precisely the reason we all shit ourselves when the Jay Cutler and Julius Peppers deals happened; we couldn't believe it.

Yes, I chose my words carefully. He's obviously not the guy who will put up stats like his ridiculous decade from 1998 to 2008: Per Season: 14+ games per year, 77 rec., 1151 yds, 11.5 TDs Per Game: 5.4 rec, 80.6 yds, 0.8 TDs So it's "almost exclusively about baggage," since he is not going to be the number one WR in the NFL. But to continue to pretend he can't play, despite what Drew Pearson says and despite TO's last season with the Bengals when he still tore the league a new asshole (14 games, 72 rec, 982 yds, 9 TDs...which is still 5.14 rec, 70 yds, and 0.64 TDs per game), is utterly ridiculous. TO can play, and can play better than a great many of WRs in the NFL. It's just a matter of whether a team wants to deal with his baggage.

Haven't logged in for a bit - the news cycle is tired and the arguments are old. But since this was directly addressed to me... This isn't completely about him being a bad guy. Sure, he missed a scheduled appearance at a hospital. That's bad. But I think this is also about an owner who wasn't happy with the contract he signed, and probably drafted, because it wasn't the kind of deal he wishes he would have made at the beginning. Owens signed a much-hyped deal with the Wranglers, giving him a piece of the team. But it paid Owens only for home games Let me know the next time you have a contract for a strict 40-hour work week and the boss wants you to come in for another 40 hours of overtime but not get paid for it. (And before you reply, yes, I know there are differences, and I'm sure that everyone who ever posted on a message board will say they work 20-hours overtime every week, walking to work uphill, both ways, in snow, etc., etc.) But since we're on the subject, check out this article in which the GM for the Wranglers - who just happens to be Drew Pearson, a person whose status, history, and reputation pretty much makes his opinion undebateable - gives his opinion about TO. "It's very difficult to get back into the NFL, especially at that age, to me, there's no question he could play in the NFL. When I see these receivers that are playing, there is no question Terrell could still play in the NFL. But it's not what happens between the lines with Terrell, unfortunately. It's how he handles things outside the lines." And that has been my stance the entire time. He can still play; there is no question. The reason he's not in the NFL is almost exclusively about his baggage.

As LT2 pointed out, moot point. However, Winslow is essentially the TE version of a certain WR that everyone rails against because of his attitude. Hell, Winslow even had a major leg injury!

Mostly temperment. Probably some of it's because of his physical decline. I still contend a TO at 75% is better at WR than Hester, Thomas, Weems, Sanz at 100%. Oh well...he made his bed, he can lay in it.

You STFU. If you don't like reading it, sit on your thumb and read another thread. I can't help it if LT2 won't just concede that I've met the criteria he's posted with multiple links.

Way to avoid the question. 3 rookies made the roster. Surprise, surprise, they were all first rounders. 1.1 Cam Newton 1.2 Von Miller 1.4 AJ Green No UDFA rookies made the all-star game.

And I still disagree with the final thought you made. This has been shown more than one time. I wish there were a way to keep these facts/stats handy and just refer to a link somewhere that laid out all the details. Chris Williams never lost the LT job. He got injured. He then filled out where he was needed, and where Tice best could use ALL the players available. The OL sucked, Webb was one of the most promising of who sucked, and Webb was limited in positions he could work. Result: Williams stays at OG. Moments can't be siezed if they are never provided.

This is getting boring because you obviously aren't even paying attention. "Outside the players home" - It's impossible to tell where some were taken, but it's clear that a few are just casually strolling. And if you bothered to relook at the Cutler photos from the beginning of the thread, it's pretty damn clear these aren't just out front of his house. Wrong again on the directory thing. Like I said, you're not paying attention. Aside from the fact that a "directory" is just a matter of organization, and not necessarily importance, it's pretty clear that there is more than one NFL player with a directory, and several other athletes as well. Are you even trying or are you just a fan of busy work? It's tough proving a point to you if you won't even look at the links, photos, and videos I provide to refute your stipulations. Does Cutler deserve some privacy? Sure. Does he deserve it on a public street (where the photos from the original article were clearly taken)? No. Does he get increased attention and lack of privacy for being a professional athlete? Yes. Does he get more attention for dating a celebrity? I've said as much. What we differ on is the amount of attention and privacy. That's it.

How many UDFA rookies?

Did Brady start his rookie year? No. He only appeared in one game, and he didn't start.

1. He looks stiff and slow in the workout video. However, for 6'10" he looks pretty damn fast. I was also impressed with his hands; they appear to be fairly soft and reliable. 2. He looks strong, but most of the time he's blocking LBs. I'd love to see what he can do attempting to chip block or isolate on a DE. As Mongo said, height and pad level becomes important at that point.

Possible. I'm a big believer in the concept that players play differently for different teams with different schemes. I firmly believe there could be several players who have washed out of the league who could have been stars elsewhere, and vice versa. So, the Rachal thought is not too difficult to believe. As long as he shows something, that would be a decent lineup and it would get Webb out of the game. Ideally, however, it's good to play players at their most familiar and strongest position.

My apologies for believing you'd be reasonable enough to actually read my posts and judge them by their content. You said Brady and Cutler were the only ones with their photographs published nationally. Proven false. You said Brady and Cutler were the only ones with TMZ pages. Proven false. You said Brady and Cutler were the only ones who had their photographs taken in regular public settings. Proven false. Even moreso, videos on other people are much more intrusive. Now you're going to talk about photograph resolution and pixel depth? C'mon man. One who wishes not to be proven wrong will always find a way to discredit evidence contrary to their opinion, regardless of whether or not thet discrediting is valid. Let's just agree to disagree, because I didn't really give a shit about him flipping the bird in the first place, still don't care, and we'll never agree on the extent to which a professional QB should expect photographers invading their perceived privacy.

If you keep moving the goal posts your point gets lost. Several of the examples above fit the current criteria. Unless of course you think the photographers just randomly hang out at the movies waiting for Tony Romo or another celebrity to show up. I've been to the movies in about half the states in the U.S., several times in very large theaters, and I've yet to see photographers trolling for the hopeful celebrity appearance. Or maybe you think these photographers are rampant enough to patrol every public beach in Florida, hoping to catch a glimpse of a pasty Eli Manning? I'm close enough that I've vacationed down in Florida a few times, been to multiple beaches, no photographers from TMZ to be seen. Oddly enough, I've actually seen Wicked in TWO, count'em, TWO major cities (once in Chicago!), and I've yet to see a photographer of celebrities hanging out near the front door. Or is it possible you think there is a photographer on every NY street corner, just crossing their fingers in hopes of running into Deion and his kids. (Pssst - I've been to NY; that would be pretty difficult.) The longer you keep changing your point and ignoring the obvious examples I'm providing, the less valid your point becomes. And the more valid my point - that Cutler knew what he signed up for when he became a superstar athlete, and shouldn't be a sour puss about it (surprisingly the links I've provided don't show the other athletes acting the same way) - becomes.

That's kind of my point. If an UDFA Rookie comes in and wins a spot, that's great. It likely means he busted his ass and has something to prove. HOWEVER, it also means the front office did a poor job filling the job recently won, because any position potentially won outright by an UDFA Rookie is not exactly one that has a quality incumbent player. And that is the key to all of this. If an UDFA Rookie can come in and win a job, it means the player previously starting in that position should not have been starting in that position.

Are you effing kidding me? The website linked is hardly nationally published. I suppose because it has a URL it's international, actually, but that's not really what you're going for. But if you want to search TMZ, a 30 second search on each of the following: Tony Romo at the movies Eli Manning on the beach Tim Tebow going to Wicked Steve Johnson out and about one night Warren Sapp doesn't even play any more and this is clearly not a publicity photo Same goes for Keyshawn Johnson Deion Sanders out and about Ray Edwards hanging out in Vegas Walter Payton has even been mentioned on TMZ! Finding the above took very little time or effort. There are multiple entries on other players, but I don't care to do more research than the above. It proves my point. Just go to TMZ and look for someone like TO, Moss, or Favre. I'm sure there will be plenty of posts. The point, as it has always been, is that photographers are following around athletes, even those not married to celebrities. And "national publications" like TMZ do it even more often because they've cornered a large slice of the paparazzi niche market. BTW - Cutler and Brady aren't the only NFL players with his own page.

As rookies, respectively: Peters: 1 GS, 5 G O'Hara: 4/8 Waters: 0/6 Penn: 0/0 Dielman: 0/6 Again, an UDFA Rookie should not be starting in the NFL, and if he does it's going to be quite an abberration.

UDFA ROOKIE The former isn't bad. The latter isn't bad. The combination is bad.

Regardless of marijuana use, if an UDFA ends up starting for the Bears as a rookie on the OL, it only shows how bad the OL was, and how much it should have been addressed in the offseason via FA and the draft.

He probably likes it for the same reasons I like it: maximizing player ability and potential. It's not about moving Garza because he was a horrible Center. Garza is a true guard, and signed with the Bears to play guard. Spencer is a true center, and signed with the Bears to play center. Putting them in their natural positions only makes the line stronger. This is particularly true if the Biggs article is accurate and Williams is moving to LT. That means a hole exists at G, and that fits Garza like a glove. Williams - Garza - Spencer - Louis - Carimi is better than Webb - Williams - Garza - Louis - Carimi And unless you can think of a better G-C combo than Garza-Spencer on the Bears (I can't), that's the best option.

What part about "shopping at Walmart" did you not understand? It's not like the photographers were inside Cutler's home. I'm not going to dig up any more than that, because I don't want to do your research. But the abscence of it on a Bears board does not mean it does not exist. I'm quite sure the same type of photos have surfaced of fan-sites many times over for several other QBs. But since they're off our radar, we don't think about it. The same thing is true on other boards regarding Cutler; there is no way the Tennessee Titans' fan board has a thread about Cutler's interactions with the paparazzi.