jason

Um, yeah, you can pull some out, but I think the original point was that there are many more players from big D-I colleges in the NFL than otherwise. You may strike it rich by playing the lottery, but it's a safer bet to put your money is something with proven success. For instance, just the A's. Smaller Football Schools Abilene Christian - 5 (2 of the drafted by the Bears) Air Force - 1 Akron - 4 Alabama A&M - 2 Alabama St. - 2 UAB - 3 Alcorn St. - 2 Appalachian St. - 5 Arkansas St. - 6 Arkansas Pine Bluff - 1 Bigger Football Schools Alabama - 26 Arizona - 14 Arizona St. - 18 Arkansas - 17 Auburn - 31

Agreed. I would hate a uniform change.

If the Bears get Jackson, and if the original situation for this thread occurs, then Adams makes much more sense. The only way it doesn't make sense would be if the Bears have Floyd ranked much, much higher than Adams, and Floyd is the undeniable BPA at that point.

Agreed. Adams > Webb. There is no doubt. But it just seems the fourth LT would be rated lower on the Bears board than the second WR. Maybe he is. And maybe he is actually a player that has the skills and potential for LT in the NFL. I've read some stuff that is calling him more of a RT than LT. If that's not the case, and he's actually a LT, then I'd have to say Adams over Floyd. As I've been saying for years, it doesn't matter who the Bears get at WR if Cutler is constantly under pressure.

I suppose it would depend on what happened beforehand. But, convential wisdom says that the following players are already gone: Kalil, Martin, Rieff Blackmon I'd rather have a LT, and Adams is projected as a RT, but at that point it would look like Floyd as the most logical choice. If Martin or Rieff are there, however, then I think it's obvious you go LT. The impact would be significant. The improvement over Webb would be drastic and immediate. And WRs are deep this year. The Bears could easily get very good/great talent in the 2nd-4th round at WR.

So you'd take the 2-4 WRs over their comparable LTs? Especially when considering most mocks barely have Wright in the first round, if at all? C'mon man.

double

Your memory is not that good. The defense he "put together" and "maintained" has largely benefitted from having one of the best MLB's in history and a great FS for the majority of the time JA's been around. Both of those guys, Urlacher and Brown, were not drafted by JA. Urlacher is a future HoFer who, if not on this team, would have caused the exposure of the cover-2 defense much sooner and much more than it has already been. On top of that, the "above average defense for years" is simply false. They were top-ten 4 times, mediocre (13-16) 4 times, and in the 20s 3 times. Have the Bears been the worst run organization in the NFL over JA's run? No. Have they been close to the best? Absolutely not. Aside from JA's mistakes so clearly listed by MadLith, JA has simply missed on too many draft picks while he's been here. The list of his mistakes and oversight is extensive. The reason he has kept his job probably has something to do with a family management that long ago lost grasp of how to properly run an NFL team, and because he was a safe guy who knew how to handle the salary cap well. The salary cap management, in and of itself, is probably the most enticing GM attribute to the McCaskeys, and it allowed them to overlook his various errors, the six losing seasons since 2001, and the numerous draft misses.

hahaha. I just know that was sarcasm. Right? Lovie cares VERY little about the future. Otherwise he would have started the young guys in a meaningless week 17 game that served the dual purpose of getting younger guys playing time and getting the Bears a better draft pick.

It does if that means moving the C, who is really a G, back to a position in which he's better than he is at C, not to mention much better than the person he'd be replacing at G.

LMAO. Best post in a while

He basically said: Webb is not good enough to be there by himself, and the offense will have to change things to protect Webb. -He wishes he could draft a LT, but doubts they'll be able to -Webb will continue to be the weak link -This weak link will force the Bears to throw short more often to an open WR -"take advantage of the box count" is code for "the defense doesn't respect the OL enough to line up in a zone or pass defense, electing instead to go one-on-one with the WRs and just pound the QB"

I agree that it's unlikely, but I was looking at mocks earlier and found one or two that had it occur. All 6 guys gone. Lots of LBs dropping. And Richardson has fallen in several drafts because of recent history that has changed convential NFL wisdom.

What if the top three OT (Martin, Reiff, Kalil) and the top three WR (Blackmon, Floyd, Jeffery) are off the board when the Bears pick? Aside from being irritated that the Bears needlessly won the last game of the season and ruined their draft pick status, what are you thinking? BPA vs. need becomes a much more interesting question at that point. If this scenario happens, and we're all relatively upset, that could indicate that LBs are getting passed over and a few other nice prospects are falling. Vontaze Bufict, LB, Arizona State Luke Kuechly, ILB, Boston College Dont’a Hightower, ILB, Alabama Trent Richardson, RB, Alabama Whitney Mercilus, DE, Illinois Peter Konz, C, Wisconsin Badgers Janoris Jenkins, DB, North Alabama Suppose that list is available. BPA doesn't make a ton of sense since it's obviously Richardson. At that point, what should the Bears do?

As usual, either shut out or virtually shut out on offense.

Dude, could you be more obtuse? The last comment makes it clearly a joke. We all know it's impossible, but I was just voicing opinion on how much more I liked Terrell Suggs now that he called out that douchebag Bayless.

After seeing this, I wouldn't care if the Bears made an incredibly lopsided trade that lost picks to get Terrell Suggs. He is now my favorite non-Bear in the NFL.

TOUCHDOWN JAY CUTLER!!!

I think that because even when you discount it, you have to throw in the caveat of "vs the potential ego issues he ALWAYS shows." And, aside from that, just two years ago he was still playing at all pro levels. Levels beyond what any WR on the Bears has ever reached (assuming Roy Williams is cut and his short stretch of good play is discounted). It's not because he doesn't have enough physical talent to still play. It's because he doesn't have enough physical talent to outweigh his potential (because he was no problem with the last two teams) problems he has off the field.

Great post. It's possible to divide the two things that make you happy. If one fails to come through, it's still possible to keep a level head, be upset about it, but still find pleasure in watching your arch nemesis get upset in the playoffs in their first game.

If that turns out to be true, it's a shame, because it's impossible to argue that he's not better than many, many WRs in the NFL at the present moment, and he could help a team win.

That clearly wasn't/isn't the entire intent of the conversation. It's just the ending distraction.

I didn't mention Moss and retirement. That's you. I honestly don't think every team in the NFL thinks TO's done, but instead would rather black-ball him than take a chance that he just might be a douche. It's simply ignorant to pretend that he's not better than the #3 WR on any roster in the NFL. I only bring it up - aside from it being the offseason for a Bears message board that has to deal with almost exclusively the hypothetical at this moment - because I want the Bears to get better, to get players who could improve the team. Even if that means taking some chances. And no matter how much of a douche he could be - which I don't think would happen after he's been humbled enough to play for an Arena team - I believe he's better than any WR on the Bears. And even if someone disagrees with that, you can't disagree that he's not better than the #3 on the roster. This is about improving the team. Oh, and BTW, TO was a great teammate on his last two teams, an all star WR for the Cowboys where he cried in support of his QB, hasn't played for the Eagles for 5 years, and calling him a quitter while on the Eagles is ridiculous considering he came back from a broken leg and a severely sprained ankle in a little over a month to play superbly in the Super Bowl. Like I said earlier, however, it's all a pipe dream because he's already signed with the arena team, and it's apparent Bears management doesn't want to pull out all stops to get wins.

HA! An arbitrator. I agree completely with you, but it appears that there is still disagreement...which has me shaking my head in disbelief.

See, NOW we're getting somewhere. The stats are interesting because nobody else has the YPA that I've seen. I wonder how reliable it is. It would be interesting to chart one game and see how close they are and what they constitute as the cutoff mark. This all started with which position is more important to the Bears' offensive success: OL or WR. (forgive the colors, otherwise it's hard to follow) 1. I started with, "Cutler and Co. were getting into a groove despite the fact that they were severely limited on the number of effective pass routes available. The reason there was a limit was the OL's inability to hold a block for more than 2 seconds consistently." Notice I focused on the routes that were available. 2. You changed the argument to how many routes they ran, and not how effective they were, by saying, "The Bears probably ran as many, if not more deep patterns during the season with Cutler than just about any team in the NFL." 3. I countered with, "Cutler did not have the time to consistently look for the WRs who were running longer-developing routes." 4. You countered with, "Most of his passes were down the field because, as I've been saying, that's how Martz's offense works." 5. Since I didn't have YPA I looked at WR targets as an indicator (which it is), and said, "Knox typically runs longer routes, which is why he has less targets." 6. You ignored targets because they weren't YPA and said, "TPG really have nothing to do with what you are trying to make out." even though now it appears to be an indicator of YPA. 7. And followed it with, "I wish I did have the numbers for Yards per attempt from Cutler because that would put an end to this discussion." 8. To appease you I gave you the short/deep stats from NFL.com. "Cutler threw "short" or "deep,"...according to the NFL.com descriptions" 9. You found YPA (thanks) and discovered all along that Cutler does not throw to deep patterns as often as the other good offenses in the NFL, and only beat the ultra-conservative offenses like the Ravens from your admittedly minimal sample size. 10. You finally replied to short/deep with "I think when you simply compare "Short" and "Deep" it doesn't represent what my argument was because when I say "down field" that includes the intermediate routes as well.", even though it now appears to be an indicator of YPA. In summary: -You and I misunderstood each other initial in regards to "# of deeper routes the Bears ran" and "# of deeper routes the Bears had the ability to throw to." Clearly I was referencing the latter, because it's the only one of the two that has significance in relation to how the OL protects. Judging from your very last post (i.e. "The only way I think you could accurately target the amount of routes being run ...") you still don't seem to grasp the difference. -WR Targets appear to be an indirect indicator of YPA, but we agree an entire game would have to be meticulously broken down to see which routes were run, whether the WR was open, and whether the QB had time to throw to the WR. -Short/Deep from NFL.com appears to be an indirect indicator of YPA, but we agree that the verbiage is a bit vague when compared to YPA. -You were wrong in your assessment of YPA overall (i.e. #4, #7, #9), despite being technically right about an upswing in YPA and better OL play during the streak, and YPA directly correlates to the number of deeper routes available (see top bullet). So, back to square one, OL vs. WR, since the Bears YPA is still lower than most offenses (an admitted assumption based on your YPA stats), that appears to indicate 1 of 2 things: 1. Cutler does not consistently have the time to throw to the WRs running longer routes. 2. The WRs running longer routes are not consistently open as often as those running shorter routes. Anyone who has played WR or DB (I have played both) can tell you that #2 just doesn't make sense. Give me more time as a WR, and I'm more likely to get open. Conversely, make me guard a WR for more time, and I'm more likely to get beat. And while reality is probably a mix of #1 and #2, that ultimately leaves us more of #1. Which is why OL is more important than WR for the Bears, and why they should draft a LT all things being equal.