jason

YES!!!!! Late Christmas present!!!

I never said it wasn't a risk. I just said that if we wanted a stud WR, we could have had two future hall of famers multiple times. And at one point in time, we could have had both of them on the same team.

That was easy enough... http://walterfootball.com/draft2012.php (old order) http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012...-first-20-picks (current) One of the bottom two will probably be there at 16. At 19 there's less chance since the Jets might be having problems with Santonio Holmes and the Chargers might have to part ways with Vincent Jackson via FA. Either could get a WR to fill the potential void.

Do I believe we would have been 12 and 4 with Cutler? Yes. The Bears hung tough with some bad teams, and having Cutler would have been the difference. Were the Bears close to a Super Bowl winning team? It would have been very unlikely, but it was possible. The problem is, Lovie Smith teams just don't stomp a mudhole in opponents. They let bad teams hang around, and they turn games with great teams into ugly games. It's the Love-2 philosophy. Bend but don't break, make the opponent fight for big gains, hope for a mistake/turnover. I actually think losing out the way they did was much better for the team because they are better than 8-8, and getting better draft picks will help the team overall. It's just too bad the coaches were too stupid/stubborn to realize the last game didn't matter, and winning it would hurt the team more than losing it.

Maybe if they were smart they would. Knowing you can't make the playoffs this year should make you think about how you can make the playoffs, or have a better chance of going deep in the playoffs, next year. Nobody likes to lose, but sometimes it pays to think forward and plan ahead for the long haul. It's about the war, not the battle.

Just for the record, if someone has a torn MCL or torn ACL, they can walk right afterwards if able to withstand the pain. Mobility won't be the same, but it's possible. I should know, because I tore mine snowboarding and not only got down the rest of the slope, but also walked quite a bit afterwards. Whether or not he walked after the injury is virtually meaningless. The MRI is the real indicator.

And I still disagree. Webb was atrocious today and the others weren't that great...which is a lot like all but 4 or 5 games this year. Maybe it'll be way different when Carimi and Chris Williams get back, but unless C.Williams gets one last try at LT, there is still a massive problem on the left side, and uncertainty pretty much everywhere else.

Yes. Incredibly maddening. F' this talk about 8-8 is better for a team's psychology and mindset. That's just stupid. The players all know the last game was meaningless and ended up screwing them out of draft position.

That would be a stupid move for two reasons. Now that the Bears draft position is lower, the cost to move up just went up. It would require at least the first-rounder and the 1st third-rounder to move up. Second, it's a bad move because one of the WRs you so highly covet will almost certainly be there when the Bears select in the first round. No way Floyd and Jeffery go before the Bears pick. Trading up for a WR would be a waste unless some team was stupid enough to give the Bears a great deal on a move up for Blackmon...which isn't happening.

Unfortunately higher. Way to go Bears, you always know how to win that meaningless game towards the end of the season that gets you just outside of a superstar first rounder.

It depends on which first round picks and how far up you want to go. For instance, the Bears current pick and the last pick in the first round would get you as far as the top 6 or so. To get that additional first rounder, the Bears would probably have to give up their second rounder as well as the later third round pick. To recap: #2 & #3.2 for a late #1 Both #1s for a top 5 #1 Too rich. Especially for a team with multiple glaring needs.

Obviously, I like this idea.

Agreed. But not as full-time starters.

Which is why I said for years and years that the Bears should have picked up Terrell Owens and Randy Moss. Both could have been had for much less than they were worth, and both would have benefitted the Bears tremendously. But the Bears' FO wants boy scouts.

No. The thought is nice but the price is way too steep. Especially in a year deep with WR talent.

It wouldn't upset me a whole lot, but I don't necessarily agree. Being an OC is a tough enough job already, but when hindered by a GM and team that gives you one of the worst OLs in the NFL (I'd argue they're the worst since they are so inconsistent and penalty-prone) and one of the worst WR corp in the NFL (many here argue they're the worst), it's pretty difficult to have consistent success.

HAHAHAHA....nice. Funny because it's probably in the back of JA's mind.

If Toub leaves, it will be yet another reason JA needs to be sent packing.

The funny thing is, I don't know if you're BS'ing or if that's an actual quote that came out recently. Lovie is so bland that it's impossible to decipher the made up quotes from his actual quotes.

Dude, I'm not splitting hairs. The original post said he was stubborn and he couldn't adjust. The first part I agreed with, and the second part I called out for being blatantly wrong. That's not splitting hairs; that's pointing out inaccuracy. Martz adjusted. Period. If he got canned for how slowly he changed, or how stubborn he may have been to change, then I'd completely understand. But the fact remains that he did alter his game plan drastically.

That's the stubborn part. That's the part where I agreed. But he doesn't have an inability to adjust. He did adjust.

Every good team has a pass catching TE? What's your definition of "pass catching TE"? There are several good teams that don't have a bonafide TE receiving threat, and a few average/bad teams that have one. Besides, Fred Davis is now a problem child with his suspension. Those kinda guys don't get picked up in Chicago very often.

2. "Martz' stubbornness and inability to adjust kills us." What? I mean, I know I'm about the only one on the board who likes him and his brand of offense, but saying he has an inability to adjust is like saying the sun has an inability to get warm. If anything, he's proven this year he can, and will adjust, if necessary. Stubborn? Sure. But can't adjust? That's crazy talk. There were obvious adjustments during the win streak, obvious adjustments when Cutler and Forte went down, and even more obvious adjustments the last game against the Packers. 1, 3-10. Agreed. The Briggs move could be bad PR, but LBs are just as easy to find as RBs. Probably the easiest position on defense to replace. And the "inability to adjust" is clearly in #4 & #10.

The Fred Davis addition would cost to much for minimal production. That move doesn't make sense, especially since we don't know what we have in Kellen Davis/Spaeth in this type of offense. If Martz goes, then we have to see if Kellen Davis can be a starting TE in a different offense. If Martz stays, the TEs haven't been the problem in this offense; they've blocked quite well and have been sure-handed when called upon. As for something I could actually see happening, the "Brady Quinn, Antonio Garay, Brendon Ayanbadejo, Robert Mathis, and Vincent Jackson" sounds about up the current FO's alley. But without Vincent Jackson. Two defensive guys and a special teamer headline it. I'm going with: Brady Quinn, Antonio Garay, Brendon Ayanbadejo, Robert Mathis because it wouldn't address the top needs on the team, but would make Lovie and crew happy to restock the shelves yet again.

Injuries, underwhelming performance, locker room issues, AND legal problems? No thanks. If most on this board will reject sure fire hall of famers like Randy Moss and Terrell Owens for just locker room issues, then there is no way in hell this idea gets support.