jason

I don't know for sure if I'm included in the "negative" side of things, but I suspect it's a veiled nudge. What I want to know is this... If person A sees something on the field that the Bears suck at, points it out, and that thing is never addressed, shouldn't they keep pointing it out? After all, this isn't the site to just praise everything as perfect. And if that same thing remains relatively unaddressed, but one of the coaches says things are suddenly great, why should anyone drink the koolaid? Finally, if a counter argument arises wherein a poster says something similar to "they know what they're doing, you don't, and I'm crying into my keyboard because you guys are so negative," isn't their post, which is positive when it comes to the Bears' side of the report, the actual post that is directly focusing on another poster, and NOT Chicago Bears football?

To me this seems like two different topics almost. Agreed with your post, in part. If Martz consistently uses the 7-step drops, I have a feeling this OL will look like flaming shit. He has to at least modify some of his gameplan towards the teams' talent, or lack thereof. Don't you wish, however, that he could deploy the entire playbook and didn't have to hold back because the OL is subpar?

This is a great post, and I realize you did it tongue in cheek, but there are obvious differences you've ignored and some things you've modified. First, and most important, the draft was a completely different animal back then. There were a ton more rounds and scouting was much more advanced. The odds of picking up a good player later were significantly better. Not to mention the fact that the other leagues were a much more viable source of quality players than today. Back then guys were going where they wanted to, where they thought they might get money, and the NFL wasn't the juggernaut it is today. The cream almost always rises today; back then it sometimes settled a little lower. Second, the Bears back then paid more attention to the OL than they do now. Four OLinemen in the 1983 draft alone! If JA had 11 rounds the Bears would still only pick up one guy for the OL. 1981 - T - 1st 1982 - T - 5th 1982 - G - 6th 1982 - T - 8th 1983 - T - 1st 1983 - C - 4th 1983 - G - 8th 1983 - G - 8th 1984 - G - 3rd 1984 - G - 4th 1985 - T - 8th That's 11 guys in 5 drafts! And if you ignore the 8th rounders, that is still 7 guys! Remember, you miss all the shots you don't take. Compare that with the last 5 years of the Bears draft and you get 6 guys...4 of which are 7th rounders! Clearly there was more attention paid to the OL back then. As for Covert,Thayer,Hilgenberg,Bortz and Van Horne, a lineup of 1,4,X,8,1 in respect to their round, you have to look at the aforementioend draft differences. But I do admit that there are similarities to at least the draft consistency of those players starting. Current: Webb, Williams, Garza, Louis, Carimi (7,1,4,7,1) Finally, this clamor for OL help is not just because of this year's training camp. This is something that has been mentioned for multiple years, since before Chris Williams was even drafted. Good thread start, and I really do appreciate the comparison on the stroll through memory lane, but you and I both know there are major differences.

Thank you. It's not like those of us saying the OL sucks, and sucked last year, don't have a mountain of evidence to build on. But Tice comes out with one article blowing the collective OL this year and we're supposed to believe they're suddenly top 10 in the NFL...even though I'm pretty sure he said some glowing things about False Start Frank before last season. I suspect this year will imitate last year: D & ST carries the team, offense performs moderately while struggling to keep Cutler upright.

I will gladly chow down, Grizz. But I don't think I will. The OL has stunk for multiple years in a row, and this group doesn't make me very hungry.

Surprised to see Taylor ahead of Barber. Also, I wouldn't have thought Hester would be ahead of Bennett, considering Bennett has better hands, runs better routes, gets open more consistently, and is generally a more reliable WR.

NOTE: IIRC, most thought the team would do pretty well last year. NOTE 2.0: I think the team will do well this year. But I think, as do most, that the team didn't sufficiently address it's primary deficiency. There's a difference between being upset about a part of the team and being upset about the team.

Genius post. The old "you should just go out and get an NFL team" logical fallacy.

I agree, in theory, with the bolded part. And I hope to eat crow all season long (doubtful). But a BIG part of OL play is cohesion. 3/5 of the OL is playing where they weren't last year. And one of the three, Garza, is not only out of place, but playing the position of leader. Regarding Tice's evaluations, look at it from the pessimist's point of view: Webb - "...they're both getting better...going to be really good players..." - This says to me that Webb is, at best, average right now. Considering Webb was rated the worst OL in the league last year (from the only source I found that rates individual OL), the claim sounds like some of the smoke JA blows. Williams - "Chris is getting better...things for Chris to work on...anchoring with the base...on [his] toes...He's working diligently on it." - This says Williams is still not great at OG, and is too easily blown back. Garza - "There’s some anxiety there for Roberto...He’s only started one game at center in his career. At first I don’t know that he was totally embracing it...he doesn’t have the same awareness and those type of things" - Read: Is not a Center, doesn't quite have the hang of playing Center, because, ya know, Center is a different position that takes guys years to master. Louis - "He’s had some experience, he’s played in some games, and he has more confidence. He’s communicating better; he’s opening his mouth...he’s doing better in the run game. He can run. He’s definitely ahead of where he was last year - Still sounds like he sprouts wood whenever Louis is in the room. Also sounds like Louis isn't a very good run blocker. Carimi - "Gabe is obviously a better run blocker...that's all they do at Wisconsin" - Gabe is not good at pass blocking. Of course, we all know that no coach is going to throw his players under the bus, specifically after naming them the starters, but a lot of what Tice said sounds somewhat superfluous because he can't come right out and say what most think, and what most saw last year.

Who chose the OL last year?

Yes. If you honestly believe what you wrote in the first paragraph, then you might be crazy. What in the combined efforts last year indicate to you that Webb and/or Omiyale will do anything other than subpar work? Perhaps you forgot the fact that Cutler was hit and sacked more than any QB in the NFL last year? Why in the world do you trust them when they have at least three OLinemen (i.e. Williams, Garza, Webb) playing out of position? I included Webb because he should be on the bench. They have a month of training camp and preseason games, but last year they had all that AND 16 regular season games AND playoff games, only to find Culter on his ass, with an injury, and more than likely being the reason the Bears didn't make the Super Bowl. Will the whole team be improved? As a whole, yes. I also believe that. All that help on the DEFENSIVE line should pay dividends. Roy Williams and Sanzenbacher could surprise. More time in the Martz offense should help Cutler and the WRs. I even believe that getting rid of Olsen will ultimately help, because it will lead to more max protect and stronger run blocking. But the OL will not be improved. And since it was clearly the worst part of the team last year, that makes the lack of attention nearly criminal.

PREACH IT!!!

Jay - seems like you're in a last minute bind...wish I could go Brian - why did you already sell yours on ebay? You're not one of those "buy tickets just to sell them" guys, are you?

I see my work here has been done. It's OK to dislike pessimism, but if you're optimistic about this OL you're crazy.

Listening to M&M this morning, the conversation turned to which playoff teams from last year would not make it this year. With that blowhard sitting in for Golic it was one screamer and one pansy with Chicago roots talking about the issue. Both agreed that Chicago will miss the playoffs. Is it because everyone's drinking the Detroit koolaid? Is it because they always overvalue Minnesota? Is it because of the slobbering BJ the media seems to give Green Bay? Or is it simply another notch in the long belt of disrespect the national media seems to have for Chicago sports? Personally, I think it's a little of all of the above, and the fact, FACT, that most media members aren't really paying attention to Bears' games and moves, reading the box scores instead. Considering how they Bears played last year, and the defensive line additions that were made, not to mention the narrow loss to the eventual SB champions in the NFC Championship game, I just don't see how the Bears don't at least challenge for the division and make the wild card. Anything less would be a huge disappointment.

So... LT-Bad LG-Out of position, average C-Downgrade, out of position, average RG-Downgrade, bad RT-Rookie Yeah, that sounds promising.

Throw my 2 cents into the "Hester at KR" side as well. It makes no sense not to use him at KR. He's too dangerous, too explosive, and has even a psychological advantage over other teams. Putting Knox back there potentially minimizes the impact he may have at WR.

I'll be interested in the details of the contract.

Ahem. 20 of those 38 passes were in the 4th quarter, AFTER the Bears were losing by two touchdowns, and AFTER Cutler was out of the game. Yes. 20 passes in the 4th quarter. //not debating Collins - he's awful

Find another site that analyzes and ranks OLinemen individually.

Second link: "Players presently working with the first team are J’Marcus Webb at left tackle, Chris Williams at left guard, Roberto Garza at center, Lance Louis at right guard and rookie Gabe Carimi at right tackle." To reiterate, Webb-Williams-Garza-Louis-Carimi. Webb is rated here as the worst OLineman in the NFL last year (and that's worse than Omiyale!). Williams isn't great at LG. Garza is a downgrade at C from Kreutz. Louis is a downgrade at RG from Garza. Carimi is a rookie. This is not something Bears' fans should be happy with.

BAAAAHAHAHAHA. Nice.

"The 1st team unit looked like this: LT Frank Omiyale, LG Chris Williams, C Roberto Garza, RG Lance Louis, RT J’Marcus Webb" Somehow, the OL got WORSE. http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/07/30/bea...st-day-of-camp/

I'm willing to bet if you had video of EVERY one-on-one, Olin held his own. And when compared to the one-on-one opportunities of the other guys on the OL, he probably performed better. I don't know where the notion that Olin wasn't the Bears' best OLineman last year has come from. I really don't think it's even up for debate. The only possible consideration is Garza, and he was far from great. And those statements don't even consider the very distinct probability that he was constantly worrying about covering down on his left AND his right for OGs (mostly LG) who weren't exactly studs last year. The Center is the most vulnerable player (i.e. head down) on the OL because he has a slight disadvantage when it comes to timing. It's very natural, and quite common, for defenses to attempt to exploit the gaps on either side of the C. Yet Olin was still better than the others on the OL. Oh, and he called the blocking assignments. Look, I'm not saying he was the same as he was 10 years ago. I'm not saying he's an all-star or the Bears' offer wasn't really enough for his current status. I don't think anyone is saying that. But he was undoubtedly the leader of the OL, maybe even the clubhouse, and his absence will hurt the performance of the OL. That's scary considering the pile of shit the OL imitated most of 2010. Debate semantics all you want, but the reason Olin left can be quantified financially: 500K. For a team so far under the cap, that sum doesn't seem extraordinary as a parting pat on the back for an all-time Bears player. It's not uncommon in any sport, and it would have been a good move all around. Kreutz probably shouldn't have played hardball, but I think he realized his value. I don't think the Bears FO realizes it. Morrissey wrote a great article about the situation: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...jay-cutler.html

Tell me about it! I was ranting and raving for Randy Moss. I believe we had content on the old old board.