jason

Your last line made me think that if Turner player poker, he'd get a low pocket-pair, but fold them pre-flop because they weren't Aces.

But he's a good teacher (read: friend of Lovie's).

Truth be told, and I've said this numerous times, I really think the collective voice of this message board could do a better job drafting for the Bears than the actual team. I don't care what the eye-rollers and nay-sayers post, we have football knowledge, and just because someone is in the NFL doesn't mean they are "right." I can tell you one damn thing: If I had been in charge, there is no way in hell we'd have the team in its current state.

QFT. Especially on third down and long.

What I want to see: -1st and 2nd round OL talent who might slip because of character issues (don't want those who have injury issues) -All road-grader FBs who have soft hands (emphasis on "road grader") -Tall, athletic, mid-level college WRs who will slip because of their conference, but have the measurables of someone who would go in the first if they played in the SEC or the BIG12. -DEs with quick feet, long arms, a nasty streak, and non-stop motors -Smart, wide ranging safeties who can swivel hips like a CB, but might get overlooked a bit because they don't have the "right 40 time"

I love how, YET AGAIN, this message board has come to a near united, conclusive opinion weeks and weeks in advance of the "people in the know," and despite the waffling left and right, the connections of connections of best friend's girlfriends who say otherwise, it has come to the point where the players have begun taking subtle jabs - as best they can without getting fined - at one of the most inept, offensive Offensive Coordinators in the NFL, Ron Turner. Reminds me of the John Shoop years, where people ignorantly and stubbornly defended him, but eventually had to face reality. Yeah, we don't know what we're watching.

I'm not so sure he was "getting his life on track" as many would attempt to have you believe. When considering the 911 call I just heard on ESPN, it appears that he was up to his old antics, riding on the back of a moving truck and beating on it. Sounds like someone who hasn't changed at all.

That sounds like a direct shot at the coaching staff, to me.

I definitely don't think that. Cutler > Orton. However, the win percentages often attributed to QBs is misleading in this regards because Orton has had pretty good supporting casts (i.e. D, ST), and Cutler has not. It just so happens that they switched teams when the rise on one team and the decline of another became apparent. I actually liked Orton on the Bears, but there is no comparing Cutler and Orton.

Unlike the OP of the comment to which I responded, I don't think your post is perfection. Here's what the post said: Please people know the facts. Kyle has a winning record every year he has played in the NFL (ain't that interesting). Cutler has a loosing record in the NFL. Kyle Orton will never throw as many ints as Cutler. But you can post the defenseive yards stats, but you do not like the interceptions AND records stats? Well guess whats more important than def. yard stats, I'll tell you, the int. and win stats. What do they say "the team with the most turnovers usually looses, but NEVER do they say the team with the least yards looses. I live here in Colorado Cutler LEADS the nfl in ints. Let's break that down. Kyle has a winning record every year he has played in the NFL (ain't that interesting). 2005: In Orton's rookie year, the Bears went 11-5. Orton played in 15 games. In no game did he throw for more than 250 yards. He threw for 2 TDs only once. This year was all about Defense, and anyone who says otherwise is completely blind or never watched the games that year. 2006: The Grossman year...which, coincidentally, the Bears were pretty decent despite Rex throwing 20 INTs. Oh, and surprise, surprise...the Bears had a good/great defense, and a great special teams. 2007: Congrats, he compiled 470+ yards in three games, and the Bears went 2-1. Yes, those two wins are clearly because of Orton. 2008: The Bears went 9-7, Kyle started 15 games (going 9-6), and actually probably had his best year. He even went over 300 yards once. Once. 2009: The Broncos are currently 8-5 with Orton at QB, and they had a lucky horseshoe in their pocket for the first part of the season. Their Defense gave up less than 10 ppg over the first five games...all wins. The notion that QBs are tied to winning records is ridiculous. This is a team game. Culter has a losing record in the NFL 2006: 2-3. 9 TDs, 5 INTs. His defense gave up 140 points in those five games. That's 28 points per game. Tough to win with that defense. 2007: 7-9. 20TDs, 14 INTs. His defense gave up nearly 26 points per game. Tough to win with that defense. 2008: 8-8. 25TDs, 18 INTs. His defense gave up 28 points per game, again. Tough to win with that defense. 2009: 5-8. No QB would have a winning record with this putrid OL, this inexperienced set of receivers, and this braindead coaching staff. For that matter, it would be very difficult for a QB to have decent stats with the same three aforementioned hindrances. The notion that "Cutler's winning percentage" is less than .500 because of his efforts is ridiculous. This is a team game. BTW - The Broncos in 2009 started off with the best defense in the league, and got most of their wins. Suddenly, the defense isn't as good, and the wins aren't happening as frequently. Hmmmm... Kyle Orton will never throw as many ints as Cutler. This is probably true, but I don't know if this is a positive or a negative. I suppose it depends on preference. I'd rather take a shot and miss every once in a while than never take a shot at all. Sure, you could do the latter and do fairly well in life, but you'll never really know what could be if everything clicks and you kick ass. So, for Lovie Smith, Orton is the perfect QB, both play it so safe that they don't just look twice before crossing the street, they look 28 times and then sprint across. But you can post the defenseive yards stats, but you do not like the interceptions AND records stats? Well guess whats more important than def. yard stats, I'll tell you, the int. and win stats. Yes! If the Defense and ST have more to do with the wins than the offense and the QB, then you surely can. Look at the entire game, and not JUST the stats, and it's pretty obvious. Your argument is essentially saying something akin to, "Well, Marino doesn't have any Super Bowl rings! So he's not as good as Trent Dilfer! Wins matter most, and in the biggest games - the playoffs - only Dilfer made it all the way to the Super Bowl and won." We both know that point of view is ridiculous, and I can give you tons more examples when the wins and losses don't dictate the talent, skills, or effort of a singular player. What do they say "the team with the most turnovers usually looses [sic], but NEVER do they say the team with the least yards looses. They do say that. And it's normally true. But there are two issues I have with that in regards to the Lovie Smith Bears. One, turnovers matter a lot less when your offense is capable of putting up big points. Of course, turnovers matter a lot more when the offense and QB have difficulty breaking 20. Similarly, when you defense is outstanding, and getting a lot of turnovers, your offensive turnovers matter a lot less. I live here in Colorado Cutler LEADS the nfl in ints. Hope the snow is good...and yes, Cutler does lead the NFL in INTs...but as I've mentioned during and after each game, one could easily take away about 10 of those INTs and place blame on numerous things (i.e. OC, OL, WR, Umpire, DPI not called) without stretching too much.

I'm all on board for this idea. The guy has been a solid starter, who plays with a mean streak. It's gotta be better than the cream-puffs this year's Bears' OL has put on the field.

There is no doubting this concept, but it's ignorant to compare Cutler and Orton how you have done. If anything, the constant 3-and-outs that the Bears had under Orton last year were worse than the INTs from Cutler. At least with Cutler there is a threat to score.

This article does a good job of stoking the coals. Simply put, Lovie and the staff make horrible personnel decisions time and time again. This has been gone over multiple times on this board, but the Bears organization for the past few regimes has been guilty of this as well. Most players that leave the Bears end up doing better, if even only slightly. And most players who come to the Bears, end up doing worse. It's a culture problem, period. The biggest indictment on this staff will be the last few games. If they continue to activate players who aren't making massive contributions (read: Davis-WR, every DT, etc.) while keeping unknown, potentially solid players (read: Aromashodu, Gilbert) on the bench, then they're too incompetent to even begin to discuss.

I'm also in favor of it, but it's WAY too late. You don't wait until you're sinking in a rowboat to look for a bucket.

haha. That's awesome. There is one flaw, however, to your comparison...Buddy Guy actually opens his mouth and performs when the pressure is on.

I'm also on the "hell no" side of the trading Urlacher idea.

I'm glad that there appears to be a general consensus on this. I thought that maybe I was just looking through rose-colored glasses, but I know what a DPI is. And I know I've seen three or four blatant instances in which the Bears WR/TE has gotten removed from their route prior to the ball getting there...and there has been no call.

LMAO! No doubt. Turner says the Bears had the right protection called, but I'm fairly certain that Cutler got blasted on that play. I don't believe a word Turner says. It could be 12 noon, mid-July, on a clear day in Arizona, and Turner could walk into my house and tell me that it was sunny outside. I'd go out and check.

Can't listen to this...can anyone summarize the key notes?

Has anyone else noticed that there have been quite a few OBVIOUS pass interference situations on the Bears WRs/TEs, and they have not been called? It seems that there has been many more than normal recently, with replays in more than one game making announcers say, "Yeah, that should have been pass interference." Is this a matter of respect for the passing game, or lack thereof?

Good post. Here's what I think of their quotes: Blah blah blah Of course Cutler will deflect. Of course Knox will deflect. And Turner is a moron who is more likely to throw Cutler under the bus - because he's a vet with thick skin - than Knox, who is a rookie. There is a bit of truth to Knox's comments, however, and that is basically the fact that there was a "look" that was "different" and an "adjustment" was made during the play. Billick noted this as well, and his live game comments, which I can't recall exactly, made it seem as if it was obviously on the WR in that situation because the adjustment Knox made was essentially one that didn't make sense. Now, could it also be a horribly designed scheme in which the adjustment doesn't make sense and Cutler threw it incorrectly, but correctly based upon the horribly designed scheme? Yeah, I could go with that as a probability.

False historians and statistical nerds will look at Cutler's INTs at the end of the year - just like the majority of the ignorant sports media who haven't watched the games - and they'll blame it all on Cutler. They'll say this was a horrible year for Cutler and he made a multitude of mistakes. They'll say the trade was ridiculously lopsided, and the Broncos basically robbed the Bears. But what they won't see is a slew of INTs that are not really Cutler's fault. This past game against the Packers just adds two more to the list. INT #1 = Aromashodu runs the wrong way, Billick basically says as much on air INT #2 = Knox runs the wrong way on an adjustment, hanging Cutler out to dry, Billick basically says as much on air This has happened numerous times this year, and the INTs are falsely inflated.

That is the most uninformed post of the last week. Congrats!

In my opinion, it goes Lovie > Jauron > Wanny. Of course, put another way it's D- > F > F-. I don't despise Lovie like I did Jauron. And I definitely don't want to castrate Lovie like I do Wanny. But THIS YEAR, Lovie has put in probably the worst coaching performance in Bears history, or at least one that is competing for the worst. I have never seen someone get so continually outcoached in nearly every facet of the game, of personnel decisions, and anything else fathomable.

Are they worse than before? I don't know. But I do think they are coached worse now than before. Even under Wanny they didn't have such horrible mistakes that are clearly the result of coaching and a lack of discipline. They may have played worse before, but they are coached worse this year.