jason

If he drops like a rock and he's there near the end of the 1st, you trade up and get him. There is no maybe to it. And to pass on him in the 2nd (maybe?) is a fireable offense for a GM. That would be crazy.

If the Bears avoid injury history, I could totally see them passing on Allen.

Looking at the draft class, there are many available options for the Bears to pursue this year. The problem, of course, is the other 4-5 needs that supersede the WR issues. While Cam Meredith had a good season, it's not the first time Chicago has seen a promising WR do virtually nothing (i.e. Marquess Wilson, Royal, Bellamy, Aromashodu, Iglesias, Lloyd, Gage, Bradley, etc.). Well, sometimes those guys do something after leaving Chicago, but that's a different issue. If Braverman was the answer at slot, he likely would have seen more of the field when the WRs were dropping every third pass. Meanwhile, Kevin White is still a complete unknown. A wild card. Can he be trusted to be a starting WR? Do the Bears really have a choice? The Bears have a very real possibility of walking into the 2017 season with only Cam Meredith as a viable, if yet unproven, WR on their roster. That's terrifying. It would virtually guarantee stunted offensive development of any rookie signal caller. Resign Alshon, and at least one WR (slot) is needed. Don't resign Alshon, and at least two WRs (slot & his replacement) are needed. Luckily for the Bears, this draft class of WRs is deep. After the Senior Bowl, one would think stock in Zay Jones would be sky-rocketing. He looked pretty unguardable. For some reason, however, he's plugged into the 4th round range on most boards/mocks. Similarly, Ryan Switzer must be wondering what he has to do to get some love. He catches nearly everything, and what he lacks in size and breakaway speed, he makes up for in shiftiness. He could shake most NFL safeties in a phone booth. He's a perfect complementary, slot WR. He's an underneath option that doesn't look all that fast, but is and is Check out some of the pub Switzer got from the Senior Bowl. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea for the Bears to invest a little into WR this year?

That's what kind of interesting about this draft. The opinions are so divisive. And that's on virtually every possible player with the exception of Myles Garrett. I happen to think Jonathan Allen could be a crazy disruptive force for the Bears. With Hicks and Goldman on the DL, and an explosive OLB on his outside shoulder, Allen is virtually guaranteed a one-on-one situation on the majority of snaps. I think he wins that battle most of the time. He also has the ability to stretch plays out, extending laterally for sweeps. I agree about the Watson thoughts. I don't want a QB in RD1. My want list is Garrett, Allen, Hooker, in that order. If the Bears were trying to make a big move, however, Watson has been pretty damn amazing against the best level of competition possible over the last two years. Two straight championship games. Both against what amounts to a NFL defense with 11 rookies. And he exploded in both games. I could see the argument for why he'd be difficult to pass up.

I'm not sure what to make of that stat. It's misleading at best. Any of the following is possible: 1. A team was horrible, and the rookies just walked into the starting positions. 2. Incredible draft. 3. Injured starters left openings for rookies. 4. Strategic personnel decision put a rookie into the starting spot over a vet. 5. Personnel decision was made to start rookie to... 5A. Get rookies snaps for the future (e.g. Starting a lesser rookie QB because it's good for development) 5B. Put pressure on underperforming veteran (e.g. The Jamarcus Webb at OT move) 5C. See if a player's talents translate elsewhere (e.g. The Devin Hester at WR move) 6. A team makes a habit of rotating in rookies more often because they believe it's better overall for the team. I'm sure there are a bunch of other possibilities, but that's just off the top of my head. For the Bears, it's mostly a combination of 1-3.

Hell, Davis Webb from Cal impressed me today. I'd like him in the 4th if not he 3rd. I'd like that waaaaay more than Garappolo.

I thought Zay Jones was very impressive. Played himself into the 2nd round.

I hate any offseason plan that involves Jimmy Garappalo.

10000% agree. Not only did it set the franchise back in terms of wasted picks, it ruined a potential franchise QB to the point that all potential contact terrified him enough he absolutely dismissed mechanics.

Short memory my friend. Kyle Long was moved to a more difficult position because the team saw how he absolutely dominated at OG. They thought, "Let's see how damn good he really is." Cody Whitehair was moved to C because Grasu got injured and the Bears just picked up this fancy new rookie who projected well at all interior OL positions, and even mentioned it in interviews. Whitehair literally said he could/would play C. As for Williams... Short version: http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2010092...orts/309299883/ http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08...imi-camp-battle http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08...t-soldier-field http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08...-webb-mike-tice 2008 - Started out injured, never started as a result. 2009 - Moved to RT to accomodate Pace, when Pace sucked Williams got moved into LT, where he did OK. 2010 - Started at LT, injured hammy, Tice inexplicably moved him to LG after injury. Tice chooses Omifail at LT and Jamarcus freaking Webb at RT (because he chipped Tice's tooth on a blocking sled). 2011 - Starts at LG while Webb gets gifted the LT spot, which is crazy because Carimi was drafted as a RT because Webb sucked so bad at RT. Yeah, because LT is so much easier. Carimi to IR. Bears try out a collection of bums for various OL positions. Cutler is on roller skates nearly the entire season. Going into the 2012 season, just about everyone agrees that Webb sucked/sucks, and shouldn't be the guy going forward. 2012 - Williams moved among three positions, not given direction by Tice, straight up misled by Tice, legitimately does better than Webb in the preseason, and never gets a fair shake because the OL sucks so bad otherwise that his versatility could be used as a bandaid in multiple locations. Meanwhile, oh, big surprise, Webb's still horrible. So bad in fact, the Bears have to triple team Jared Allen (remember that embarrassment?) Cutler publicly yells at him and bumps him on the sideline (remember that ridiculousness?).

Fighting words. I absolutely didn't want McClellin.

Could you explain in a bit more detail how you're doing this? When I post the link into google.com's search bar, it just shows me a link to the story. It doesn't show me the story. I'm not paying for the freaking trib.

This is to gauge the thought process of everyone here. This could be used to help move the "Post-FA Everyone Agrees Mock" forward. Calais Campbell is pretty much the #1 DE available that could fit the 3-4, and Eric Berry is the undeniable FS choice available. Since there are no comparable FA QBs, the combo of FA QB & RD1 pick wasn't included. With that said, what is your preference? I chose Eric Berry & Jonathan Allen.

Absolutely. We did it last year, but most just were happy to default to the original. I think this offseason, more than any I can remember, has a variety of paths the Bears could take.

So is this thing done? Aside from hot debate between a 1st RD QB or another position, and then debate about whether it should be Allen at DE or Hooker/Adams at FS, are we really in "agreement" here? 2017 EVERYONE AGREES MOCK - VER 2.0 1. Jonathan Allen, DE, Alabama - Nearly half the board is upset, regardless of the pick 2. Pat Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech - Assures Barkley doesn't start 3. Budda Baker, S, Washington - Gives the Bears a solid back-end 4. Chad Wheeler, OT, USC - Potential for either side 4. Kevin King, CB, Washington - Good size/speed combo, cohesion with Baker 5. Fabian Moreau, CB, UCLA - Rising draft boards, could be a steal 7. Pharaoh Brown, TE, Oregon - Skilled pass-catcher with injury history

Oh, make no mistake, I've proven it. Go back, look through the archives. He got jerked around something serious by the Bears coaches during his time in Chicago.

You joke, but I actually think the mock draft websites and team reps on major sports sites look at boards for ideas. I'm 100% convinced of it. Far too often over the years an idea or player has been suggested here, and a week later there is a matching article somewhere.

They only had one year of overlap. Bennett did well with Cutler. And Chris Williams got screwed in Chicago. Please don't make me prove it for what seems like the 10th time on this board.

Take it with a grain of salt since he's stuck in Cleveland, but... http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1855957...s-rusher-not-qb

For a total team draft, I agree. But the only cohesion possibility is Watson, Leggett, Scott. In fact, I'm completely sold on the fact that if the Bears get Watson in RD1, they should grab Leggett in RD3. I'm also sold on Trubisky + Switzer. I've been a fan of Switzer for 2+ years now. He's going to be a very good NFL slot WR. If the Bears get Trub, I want Switzer in RD4-5

Yeah, I pointed him out a few weeks ago. Good size/speed combo. His athleticism and production should be enough for an early day 3 pick. If he keeps getting good press at the senior bowl, he's likely gone in round 2.

I've been thinking about the concept of cohesion via draft lately. With this draft, there are several scenarios where players could be drafted to create immediate cohesion, assuming that type of bond carries over to the pros. Do you believe it works? Or does the NFL speed/ability difference make the cohesion of rookie opponents negligible? For instance, if the Bears were to draft: RD2: Sidney Jones, CB, Wash RD3: Budda Baker, S, Wash RD4: Kevin King, CB, Wash or RD1: Mitch Trubisky, QB, UNC RD4: Ryan Switzer, WR, UNC or RD1: Jonathan Allen, DE, Bama RD3: Tim Williams, OLB, Bama RD4: Eddie Jackson, S, Bama RD5: Dalvin Tomlinson, DE/NT, Bama or RD1: Jamal Adams, S, LSU RD2: Tre’Daviorous White, CB, LSU or RD2: Damor’ea Stringfellow, WR, Ole Miss RD3: Evan Engram, TE, Ole Miss RD5: Chad Kelly, QB, Ole Miss Would that expedite the cohesion process among teammates? Would you be happy with groupings from teams like portions/all of the above? I think I'd be pretty happy with various combinations from above. I think I could get behind just about all of the above, provided the missing picks filled other needs.

Yeah, agreeing to all the trade down possibilities is impossible for everyone to agree and work on. But ideally, I'm definitely a trade down fan. At #3 the pick has a ton of value, particularly with a thin QB class. And since it's clear the Bears have several needs, it would be ideal to pick up a few extra mid-round picks. I love the value of 2nd and 3rd round, even some 4th, in this draft.

Back to the point of this thread... -QB in the 1st round got outvoted. We knew that was going to be the most debated issue. -DE won out over S in regards to the players available. I could add a poll, but the specific preferences appear to solve the debate for a quorum. -Allen may or may not be worth the #3 pick. Most think he is. -Having a surplus (i.e. DE + OLB) with financial obligation is a valid discussion, but most would probably draft Allen if he is worth the #3. Unless more join in on either the side of the Safety in round 1, or more have a valid issue against Allen at #3, then he has to be the pick. No other player appears to be worth the #3 in the consensus of mock draft sites and sites that have players ranked on big boards. What I want to know is, are there objections to the specific players or positions drafted? Surely this process is not over already. Have we talked about mocks enough that we just got to an end result quicker? Or is it less up for debate because the #3 pick sort of pigeon-holes us into very few possible decisions that A. Fill value, and B. Fill need?

That guy can write it how he wants, and Marino can misremember it all he wants, but I just broke down the film. Every freaking play. The fact of the matter is, Marino dropped back to pass 33 times, was sacked 3 times, and penalties were involved a couple other plays. Of his 27 pass attempts, only 10 were 5-step drops. And one of those was a 5-step drop on a shotgun. Out of those quicker developing plays, he was sacked once, threw one INT, and only completed two passes. One of the completions was a short ~3YD pass. The other one was that 5-step shotgun, on which he also got outside the pocket, and it resulted in a 52YD pass to Duper. The Dolphins didn't beat the Bears because of quick reads like you're thinking of, or how we think of the WCO of today. They beat the Bears because they got one of the biggest flukes in history on the Hampton deflection to Duper for a 42YD TD (7-step drop), and they blocked a punt at the end of the 1st half that set them up for a gimme TD (one of the ones to Moore) on a pass that Marino actually took 8 or 9 steps on his drop-back, and Moore just happened to juke Wilbur. For the sake of argument, here's all their offensive plays: Drive Play Pass Shotgun Step-Drop OTP Result 1 1 Y 7 1 2 N 1 3 Y Y 7 Incomplete 1 4 Y Y 7 Y Huge throw to Duper downfield 1 5 N 1 6 Y Y 7 TD 2 7 Y 7 Y Short gain 2 8 N 2 9 Y 7 Incomplete, offsides 2 10 N 2 11 Y 5 Incomplete, Fencik blasts Duper 2 12 Y Y 7 Duper drops short crossing route 3 13 Y 5 Incomplete 3 14 N 3 15 Y 7 Sack 3 16 Y Y 7 Back shoulder big play 3 17 Y 5 Play-action, sack 3 18 Y 7 Post-route, big play 3 19 N 3 20 Y 5 Play-action, incomplete 3 21 N TD 4 22 Y 5 3yd gain 4 23 Y 8 Big play, holding 4 24 N 4 25 Y Y 5 Y Roll-out right, 52yd to Duper 4 26 Y 5 Horrible overthrow under pressure 4 27 N 4 28 Y Y 7 Y Pressured out, big gain to Clayton 4 29 N TD 5 30 Y 8 Incomplete 5 31 Y 9 Moore jukes Wilbur for a short TD 6 32 Y 5 INT 7 33 N 5 Y Clayton barely misses deep out completion 7 34 Y 7 35 Y Y 7 ~20YD Completion, strip by Richardson 8 36 N 8 37 Y 7 Dump off pass to open RB, drop 8 38 Y Y 7 Deflection off Hampton for 42yd TD to Clayton 9 39 Y 5 Play action, overthrow while under pressure 9 40 N 9 41 Y Y 7 Overthrows inside collapsing pocket 10 42 Y 5 Incomplete slant, Richardson in coverage 10 43 Y 9 Quick 3YD out to Clayton, PF on Bears 10 44 N 10 45 Y 7 Clayton with mid-slant catch, runs backwards 10 46 Y 8 Marino with 22yd pass on back pedal, Otis bad read on zone 10 47 N 10 48 Y 7 Dent with great bend, gets the sack-strip 10 49 Y Y 7 Y Marino throws it deep but out of bounds 11 50 N 11 51 N 11 52 N 11 53 N 11 54 N 12 55 N 12 56 N 12 57 N