chwtom

I just don't want to use my first round pick on someone who didn't produce and hope that he all of the sudden will when he makes the jump to a more complex system and faces NFL DBs. It could've been his coaches or qb's fault that he didn't do much, but it seems to me more likely that he's a track star and not a football player. If there were a bunch of examples of WRs who didn't produce in college, but had a great combine and then produced like a first round pick in the NFL, then I'd be more inclined to trust that DHB is worth our #1. PS I'm not sold on Macline either. I like Crabtree, and I like the values on some of the second round picks like Nicks, Britt, Robiskie and Iglesias more than I like the value of taking a question mark wih my first pick.

I don't think you are right. He was originally drafted, iirc, in the mid-first round. At the time of the draft, nobody knew if he'd be any good as a pro (like any other qb). If you were the Detroit GM, wouldn't you, by a mile, rather have Cutler, who is already a few years into development, definitely not a bust, and who has a contract like a mid-first round pick over Stafford/Sanchez, who probably have a 50% chance of being a bust, but would get a contract with 30-40 mil guaranteed, and you wouldn't know for 2-3 years if they were any good? If I was Detroit, I would make that deal in a heartbeat. Cutler isn't perfect, but he's a young, pro-bowl caliber qb with a reasonable contract, which might make him one of the most valuable entities in the NFL. Cerainly more valuable than a draft pick. If I were Angelo, I would give them anything they wanted. 1st round pick, a 1 and a 2--whatever it took. My only hesitation is that Angelo currently has nothing on the roster to put around him, but it's not too late to make some FA addiitons. You get Cutler and you don't have to worry about who your qb is for a decade.

St Clair was significantly worse at LT last year than Barnes, plus Barnes is 5 years younger. Barnes is very good in the run game, and imo was miscast as a LT. I think he would be a very good RT, particularly on a running team like the Bears. Last year he had one of the highest YPC behind him of any LT in the league, according to a newspaper article i saw. It's a moot point, though, because Angelo isn't shopping in the starting O-lineman aisle. He's in the bargain, "versatile" bin, right next to where you can pick up has-been WRs and safeties. "The Jaguars averaged 6.04 yards per carry running off left tackle in 2008, the second best mark in the league. Free agent LT Khalif Barnes isn't expected back, but he's still good on run blocks. Pass protection woes will keep Barnes' price down. He could kick to right tackle for his next team or stay on the left in a run-heavy offense."

100% agree

I think McDaniels will try to make it a non-story, but I don't see how it could get it the point of having a three team deal worked out with McDaniels, who happens to be Cassel's o-coordinator last year. McDaniels had to have shown serious interest to let the talks get that far. He may try to deny it in order to rehab his relationship with Cutler, but there is too much smoke to not be a little fire brewing. But I do agree that the minimum return would be a first and third, since that was what Tampa was willing to give up. Maybe we could send Orton, our third this year, and our first next year?

So you havent watched him play, haven't read the book about him, and yet you still think you are qualified to tell me what kind of player he is, whether he takes plays off, etc? I have watched him play (live and on tv), and I've read the book about him, so I think that makes me think I'm wasting my time arguing his virtues/vices with someone who has lots of opinions but little information to base them on. I don't put a ton of stock in the combine, but I do put some in it. It's valuable to answer questions a player has put up with their on the field play. I don't want DHB because he hasn't done anything on the field to make me care what he does at the combine. But I do care about what Oher does because he does have question marks. I'm not sure why you haven't heard anything about his ? marks until now, maybe because you only started paying attention to him when the draft came around. You don't strike me as an Ole Miss guy, and you haven't read the book, so I don't know why you would've heard much on him.

According to the Sun Times blog, there are sad times ahead. http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/ The Bears signed this guy to be the starting RT. They still want St Clair back. They are not interested in Housh. So we'll be overpaying for 2 mediocre OTs because they are versatile, but not paying a true RT to fill a much needed spot. They won't be going after the best WR available, they won't even try, despite having a ton of cap room and a loyal fan base that sells out every game in minutes. The Bears were lucky to get to 9-7 last year. They had the 21st ranked offense and the 26th ranked defense, so they easily coild've had 6-7 wins. The appear to be content to have another off-season like last year, hoping that taking also-rans and has-beens on the cheap will solve their glaring problems. I am so pissed right now.

NFO started this topic to ask if anyone had insight on why there are character questions about this guy. Character has more to do with whether or not you get in trouble with the law. It also, to me, has something to do with work ethic and giving every ounce of effort in whatever you do. Oher has had only one incident, to my knowledge, where he got in trouble. It is discussed in the book that he got into a fight with another player and accidentally hurt a little kid. But the description of him in the book is that he is withdrawn, has difficulty starting relationships, he is slow to learn, he never had a true love for football (he wanted to be Michael Jordan and play basketball), and he always had lots of talent, but has been pretty raw and never put everything together consistently. Those are some pretty big concerns for a guy you are considering paying 10-20 million dollars and banking the success of your football team. I don't understand why NFO would ask for insight about the guy, then tear down what people who have read about the kid have to say as laughable and over-analysis, and just another example of reading too much into combine numbers. First, I don't see how you could possibly over-analyze a first round draft pick. A team that consistently fails in the first round is not likely to be successful, and there is a giant pile of money involved. Second, this guy had these concerns about him before the combine. If there is a hint from one of his combine numbers (the bench press) that this guy has not been putting in the hours in the weight room, than that reinforces those concerns. NFL lineman need to give 100% effort on every play, or they are going to be out of the league quick. If a tackle takes off 2 or 3 plays a game, he'll get his qb killed. He might come into the league and do a very good job, but I can almost guarantee it won't be as a RT (which is our need), and it might not be at LT. I highly doubt this guy is going to be a premier tackle in the NFL, as he just doesn't seem to have the required passion and dedication to give 100% on every play, and constantly work to get better. I could be wrong, but if you haven't read the book on him (which I'd recommend), than I don't see how you can argue about the kind of person/player he is.

When did I knock him for being too tight with his family? You are making a straw man argument. He isn't as strong as the other top OTs. We want a RT, and we are in a run-first system, so one of our top priorities should be finding a guy strong enough to blow people off the line. I read the book on him--did you? If you read the book, you would have legitimate concerns about how much of his dedication to the game comes from within, and how much comes from his family. You would wonder if this is the kind of guy would would just up and quit the game one day. Couple that with his disappointing bench press numbers (which are a reflection, among other things, of how hard a guy has been working in the weight room, and I don't want him as my new RT. There's a reason he's slipping to a second round grade on some people's draft boards, and it's not because he's too tight with his family. Get off your soapbox.

If this deal is properly backloaded, then we can cut him after a couple of relatively cheap years with little pain. If he develops into a solid player, than 4/14 might end up being a good deal. I like him as a younger, cheaper replacement for St Clair. I hate this as a replacement for Tait. Hopefully, JA pairs this with a real RT (like Stinchcomb or Barnes) and we get a younger, better line and we don't have to use a high pick on an OT.

Buried in a piece about the Bengals possibly signing Housh is this nugget: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090226/SPT02/302260058 "The Bengals decided not to place the franchise tag on Houshmandzadeh, which would’ve been for $9.88 million. It is believed that he is looking for a deal upwards of $10 million per season. As many as eight teams could be in the T.J. Derby starting Friday, but the favorites remain the Eagles, Giants and Bears." This is the first i've ever heard of the Bears being linked to Housh outside of the blogosphere. He is certainly the style of WR we could use, and he could teach Earl Bennet (since Earl is of that mold as well), but 10 mil a year? ouch.

I'm not going to start a new thread for this, but I saw on NFPost.com that Jon Stinchcomb is going to be available. He is probably not a big ticket item, but is 29 and one of the better RTs in the game. I think signing him to a 3 year deal would be a far, far better option than giving that money to St Clair. St Clair may be versatile, but usually veratile means your not good enough at any one position to stick there. Stinchcomb is only a RT, but he's great at that.

I took Jenkins-Britt in the first 2 rounds. This is predicated on us getting a real RT before the draft (Stinchcomb and Barnes would be my top 2 options), which is a must. Jenkins could be a pro-bowl caliber FS for us, which would make more difference to the D than any other draft pick or FA singing. I think Britt has the talent to be a pro-bowl caliber WR, his physical style suits us, he just needs to not become an a-hole.

As far as devoting himself to the weight room, not sure his bench press reps agree with that. He only repped 21 times, which is less than some WRs, DBs and even a kicker. People say it's because of his long arms, but I don'y buy that. Plenty of big LTs have done way better than 21 reps. you need to be strong to play RT, and he hasn't proven to me that he can do more than be a finesse LT, and we already have one of those. Last, do we want a guy who waited until his senior year of college to dedicate himself? I'd rather draft guys that are high-motor, self-driven, so we won't have to worry about them going soft once they get paid.

So this would be the second year in a row we took a fringe 1st round tackle in the middle of the first round? Awesome.

Angelo's problems in the first baffle me. He says that he goes after guys with high floors, even if they don't have high ceilings (basically he goes after the safe pick, even if he misses out on the stars). But his first round picks are almost universally busts. So whatever he is doing to evaluate the players floor isn't working.

I am basing this off the book "The Blind Side" which most of you probably know is based on Oher. Any concerns about Oher are likely related to his work ethic and dedication to the game, rather than to him being a bad kid. The book paints him as senstive and loyal, but maybe not very tough. I got from the book that he isn't necessarily very self-motivated and driven, that he depends a bit on his family and others for that. My concern with him wouldn't be so much that he got into trouble, it would be that he didn't work hard enough or committ to his team enough, and that he wouldn't be able to socially mix with the other players.

I am hoping the O line help comes before the draft. I think there is a pretty decent chance that anyone we'd think about taking at 18 could theoretically be available late first. I also like the value of the second round picks in this year's draft better than some of the mid first ones. I can't say with any certainty that Maclin or DHB will be any better as a pro than Nicks, Britt, Iglesias or Robiskie, so I'd rather take the latter.

You have him listed in your starting lineup. Also, would you still sign him if he's not going to play this year? That would be generous of you.

Is Andrews going to play this year? Didn't he just have his ACL done last month?

5-6 Million PER YEAR? Are you guys insane? He is a backup. He was one of the worst LTs in football last year. Yes, he's versatile, but versatile for him is another way of saying he isn't good enough at any one position to be a starter there. I might give him a 3 year deal for 5-6 mil total, but 5-6 per year is loco. The guy is not a high level tackle, there is no way reason to pay him like one. Carey may average 7 mil a year, but he's a former first round pick who plays at near pro bowl level. Paying John St Clair 5-6 mil per year for 3 years would be like the Cubs paying Aaron Miles 6 mil a year for 3 years. There isn't anything in the Trib piece about 5-6 mil a year, that came from rotoworld. Let's all hope that's errant speculation.

I definitely wouldn't trade up to get a WR. We wouldn't have enough ammo to get Crabtree, and I don't know any reason to think with any certainty that the other guys (Maclin, DHB) are going to be any better pros that the guys we could take at 18 (Nicks, Britt) or even 2nd round guys like Robiskie or Iglesias. At tackle we aren't going to get up high enough to get Monroe or Jason Smith, and the other tackles all have big ? marks, like oher with ?s about dedication and strength and the other guy who didn't show up to the combine. This seems to me to be a better year to trade down than to trade up, unless you need a 3-4 OLB.

Dawkins will likely get resigned by Philly, and potentially so will Buckhalter. If we get Housh and draft a WR early, we wouldn't sign Washington since we already have Hester and Bennett. I like the idea of signing Banes, Housh and Phillips though, and we have the room to do it.

Yes but he was 1st among LTs in yards per cary by RBs behind him. We're not signing him to play LT and be a premier pass-blocker, we'd be signing him to play RT and be a premier run blocker, which he already is. On the right side he wouldn't have to face the same kind of edge rushers that LTs do, he wouldn't be protecting the QBs blind side, and he'd have the TE to help if needed.

I wanted to throw my computer through the window about that whole interview. He is basically saying that he put all the necessary talent out there, and its the players and coaches that aren't getting it done. Seriously Jerry? You think we had enough talent at WR last year? You think you did a good job keeping up with the offensive line? You think you made good draft choices outside of Forte? You think you made good decisions on which defensive players to extend? He's talking like a man who either has no clue about how much trouble his roster is in, or has been told he can't spend $ and he's trying to put lipstick on the situation.