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Nope. They were one of the most successful teams for 4 straight years in the regular season...a lot better than our Bears unfortunately. To not acknowledge that they were actually more successful than Jimmy's Dolphins (that only cracked 10 wins once--getting exactly 10) and not acknowledge they held that up for years...you might as well be lying for all intents and purposes. Now if you had been way less sensational than saying "did nothing" and "decent" "for the 1 year", then I might have even replied with a "good point". That's the value of being more restrained with the dramatic...the difference between making a good point and sounding ridiculous.

okey-dokey

But he didn't just try to lead us down the field, he did. So to evaluate his performance you must consider that...along with considering that he tried to score a td and failed. Take no comfort if you like, but having an offense that can move the ball should be comforting to a fan of the Bears IMO (we aren't Colts fans here)...while red zone picks are discomforting. It's not brain surgery.

Don't anyone forget it wasn't that long ago we couldn't even move the ball with our O. Good game or bad game for Jay, at least our O moves the ball and gets first downs. Also think about this. No running game and poor pass protection paired with above average D (I'm describing the niners loss)...that's not going to win you any Superbowls. As long as the bad games don't damage Jay's psyche (he seems so cocky that I don't think it will), and he's ready to put out pro-bowl efforts when the rest of the offense is carrying their weight, who cares if he doesn't play with composure when his teamates are getting pushed around? We didn't bring him here to make us look less pathetic. He's here for playoffs and championships. That's not really a rebuttle to anyone as much as just trying hard to see the glass half full. I have a similar theory that some coaches can't coach up poor talent, and some can...while the roles can get reversed when you hand those same coaches a team loaded with talent. For example, Wannstedt was quite successful getting his Miami players to not suck, but where was the next level? It could be argued that instead of Belichek learning from his Cleveland mistakes, that he is just great at dealing with talent but doesn't know how to develop a team that needs serious help (referring to the Browns). I seriously doubt that you approach coaching a team with poor talent the exact same way you do a loaded team.

Hmmm. Interesting stat.

Lovie says he's heard about that "offense" thingamadooey and he thinks it sounds intriguing.

Very interesting observation. Screens to combat an aggressive pash rush is conventional, but usually it's set up by the D selling out for the pass rush rather than the D getting consistent pressure regardless. But a "make them pay" attitude being put to use is a good thing.

Just read your reply Nfo. yes, I get that. I just said it was ironic, not that it necessarily makes you wrong, though it maybe read that way. I honestly read Big Daddy's reply off as a sort thick, and then you back it up. Nice. I'm gonna admit I'm using contect clues to figue out your use of "cut", maybe I'll look it up. Yes, lets not. The big point here is that you are willing to suggest Orton, who could move around in the pocket, was able to simply throw balls away when he got pressured, and was nearly flake-out proof...wooden-personalitied even (I think those years of watching Rex taught him the ultimate respect for composure), would be outright "crumbling" while Jay (until tonight) manages a respectable rating. That's an extreme viewpoint, to put it nicely, and I think you're the one who's pretending. My ultimate thought here is you're not willing to be wrong, because you're willing to take it to such ridiculous lengths without backing down (you're the same guy who suggested that in Jay's worst game as a pro that we still barely lost, that having Orton still wouldn't have put us over the top. That's loony tunes stuff right there. As you like it. Sorry about all that "getting carried away"). I must admit I didn't see the non-televised in Oklahoma Cleveland or Bengals game, if that makes a difference, so I missed any of those pressures or escape theatrics.

Can't do DIDDLY-POO!!!

Keep in mind that Cutler put us in that position (to be knocking at TDs door with 8 seconds left). He gets credit for that too (with Chris Williams et al doing their durndest to throw the game away with penalties like Pace did 2 games ago). Having said that. 6 points is NOT good enough, and he's the leader of that offense. Well actually, I shouldn't leave out Ronnie Turner too.

I do remember an article about how when Rivera left, the Bears lost someone who understood how to light a fire under their players (obviously Rivera was a Ditka and Buddy Ryan alum), when Lovie doesn't. That doesnt' make it true, but maybe. We'll maybe find out years from now after Lovie is gone from old players if he really is poor at getting his team up for a game (or an important drive). His D played well today. Some consistency would be nice.

Hester has way outplayed his expectations IMO, save for returning, which doesn't surprise me anyway because I've said all along Toub's blockers had been just as much or more responsible for Hester's success. We've still got Hester, but the faces have changed on ST and surprise, surprise, we're back down to earth (though still pretty good) as a returns unit, and not even playing him on kick returns. Anyway, I'll admit I was also in the minority that said Hester will never be a very good reciever because the level is just too high in the NFL for you to take a not particularly bright player and switch him to the other side of the ball playing a position he hasn't played before. He appears to be very good already, and as quickly as he's picked it up and as young as he is, maybe he'll one day be great. That's probably my biggest "got it wrong" of the last few years. My other was probably sticking with Rex too long, thinking "all he has to do is stop flaking out and thrwoing WTF picks...and you'll see", lol. Rex doesn't have the self control to be an NFL QB. Lesson learned. ...I think I'm rambling.

I had never thought about it before, but at least with respect to Orton getting traded, while it probably was insulting to him since we gave away such high value draft picks too, it nevertheless means those draft picks (which look like they'll be high ones) get to be used by his new team. If you're gonna get traded, I guess you want take a few of your old team's draft picks along with you.

OP is right though, people don't do a "but 3 of them weren't his fault" thought process beyond the day the game was played. How do we know that 3 of Orton's picks in that 2005 game weren't his fault? No one remembers that stuff later. And Bears fans do not go easy on their QBs. I'm not too concerned about his last pick because it was a low probability situation before he even snapped it, but it could have been a chance to impress us and remind us why we gave up so much for him. Instead we now have a losing record. But of course Hester's slip and Olson's (EDIT: oops, maybe it was Davis...I was trying to watch on the internet) lack of follow through don't go on their stats, it goes on Cutler's.

Thas-a-no-so-good

Like I said, any self respecting Bears fan...

At least we didn't just lose to the Bucs, lol. Any self respecting Bears fan ought to be able to get at least some jollies out of the Packer's pain, regardless of our...ahem...situation.

Remember, what Denny Green was right about was that the Bears were who they thought they were, that is, a team that's capable of coming back to smack you down in the second half and come back from 20+ points down to win...that didn't happen tonight. We should be so lucky.

So what's our defensive speed? Mark Anderson (not the main starter), Marcus Harrison (not the main starter), Urlacher (out), Tommie (used to be fast), Briggs, Roach, Manning, Idonijie. Zackary Bowman apparently on some surfaces is capable of a sub-4.4 40 time according to a quick google by me. http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile...rospect_id=1245 Actually, even taking Urlacher and Harris into account that still seems like pretty good speed to me. At every position we've got a burner starting and at LB we've got two.

How lucky are we to have had Mannelly, Maynard, and Gould for so many consistent seasons now? I knew Gould was one of the more accurate kickers around, and that more recently in his career he's even added some distance to his kickoffs, making him one of the best in the game, but I hadn't realized he was doing that well. I will say that every time he lines up for a kick I feel good about it, and that says something. Also, FIVE seasons with the Bears...it seems like just yesterday he was being called "goo-ld" by his teamates/coaches that didn't know how to pronounce his name right. While I was in a conversation, I even caught myself absentmindedly calling him Edinger a few of weeks ago.

I was thinking if I was the reporter I'd want to ask "You know Lovie, why is it that you always seem to have the lowest expectations among all of us with an interest in the Bears? Are you capable of identifyng mistakes and demanding those issues be addressed?" which of course would be ridiculously insulting while being posed in a patronizingly civil way...but he practically begs us to go there when he starts seeming so disconnected. You think as a mental trick, when he gets tough media questions he just envisions that they're actually all in reference to his kid's high school team? Maybe its a reaction to our modern culture. He thinks the media doesn't need any more help being negative, so unless he's particularly worked up about something, he just preaches staying the course.

For argument's sake, if we lose to Minny twice, does it really matter? If we go 10-6 but can't even beat the best team in our division we'll only be going to the playoffs for funzees. The unknown is whether Favre can make it 16+ weeks, but we oughta find that out when we play him in week 16.

Once again, am I getting carried away? You like to throw that around for no good reason Nfo. Then throwing out a staw man that "Saying Orton is not as good as Cutler, in this regard, is just not an insult to Orton.", which is a bit of a non-sequitur since I never complained about "saying Orton is not as good as Cutler...in this regard", but specifically that he would be outright sucking overall. Thanks for throwing the bone on Orton's pocket presence (which I called, simply, good...not amazing or even great), but that's all that was needed when I'm rebutting the insinuation that Orton would have a 55 QB rating if he was on the Bears (what was his rating last year on this Bears team...playing a third of the year severly hobbled?). And don't you love how posters can get SO vehement about something and still be SO wrong. I saw it on the field last year, BigDaddy; your passion alone can't change reality. One slight irony, Nfo, is how you are specifically one of the ones I remember arguing how bad our O-line was last year (before this season started). In other news, Denver lost today...Orton's O only put up 9 points and the Flacco's O put up 16. And we won big. I'm happy. I'm not some sort of closet Denver fan, I just finally got tired of rolling my eyes without replying. (EDIT: oops, 23pts actually, missed that last minute TD because I had stopped paying attention by that point).

Please. Get off it. Do you people really have to keep telling yourself that to feel good about Cutler? It sounds silly. Orton was good at moving around in the pocket too, (and getting rid of the ball, as evidenced by last year's OL's 29 allowed sacks--and that was not a great OL) even if he wasn't fast/agile/accurate when literally out of the pocket. Substitute Rex in that sentence and it makes more sense. Cutler is definitely good at getting rid of the ball and avoiding pressure. I remember a pick against Atlanta (he didn't see the roaming safety come up to make a play on the ball) that was clearly the result of pressure, so yeah, the pressure isn't helping. Also, picks when you're down by 24 is no biggee, IMO, and the others came mainly in game 1. I'm happy with him so far and you should be too. Can we not leave it at that? In fact, we're really not seeing a lot of Cutler going outside the hashes relative to what we should be, so hopefully that changes (assuming the line doesn't magically start holding a solid pocket, lol).

You're spinning. We've looked "fine" on defense up 'til Cincy. You changing the wording to "not that good" is just an attempt to phrase it the most negatively. You can't argue with the scoreboard. Our defense had held teams to less than the league average. There've been some good weeks and some terrible weeks for the OL, still, come on, picking just the OL to rip when the reality is we were one of the highest scoring teams in the league before Cincy is too convenient. I maintain my original assertion.