defiantgiant

Yeah, I totally agree. If they think Sims is good enough to start at LG, just sign him and give up the 4th-rounder. The odds of finding a starter in the fourth round are not good at all, even though Angelo's managed to do it once or twice in the past. That would free up the Bears to keep Brown (which should be Plan A) or if they do deal him, trade him for a safety and fill the other major need this offseason.

I don't know if Sims is any good - I haven't seen him play. Here's the scouting report on him coming out of college. Cliff's Notes version: good playing strength, just-adequate size, pretty good hand punch, better pass-protector than run-blocker, plays to the whistle. There were questions about his stamina, conditioning, and overall work ethic coming out of college, and there are certainly questions about injuries based on his pro career. For what it's worth, he was relatively durable at Ohio State, appearing in 47 games in his 4 years, with 40 starts. While I'd love to get a new starter at LG, I don't know if this guy is really worth trading Brown for.

He got better at it toward the end of last season. I think he could develop into a good blocker pretty soon. He's tall like Olsen, but he's way stronger. He was among the top TEs in the bench press at his Combine (where he was 10 or 12 pounds lighter than he is now,) and he was powerful enough to play some DE in college.

Yeah, I'm with you on that one. I wish the league would have some less stringent rules on wearing throwbacks. Isn't it like three home games a season or something? I'd like to see them a little more often than that.

I actually kind of liked the idea of putting Melton at DT. He's built pretty short and squatty for a DE, and I'm not an expert or anything, but to me he looks more like a guy who needs to add 20 pounds and be a rotational DT. I could see him being a player like Anthony Hargrove was for the Saints this season: maybe he gets some reps on the outside, but he makes his money as a nickel rusher on the interior line. Melton's quickness could be a big problem for your average guard. I also sort of don't get Gilbert as a DT. I mean, I don't really understand his role in this defense anyway. They picked the guy based just on his sheer athleticism when some much less raw d-linemen were still on the board (like Matt Shaughnessy and Michael Johnson.) If he doesn't develop into one position, that was a pretty dumb pick.

Yeah, apparently he's gone everywhere that Tice has been a coach. He's probably just a practice squad guy, even if we keep 4 TEs active: I can't see an 8-year vet with 17 career catches making the roster over Manumaleuna, Olsen, Clark, and Davis.

Well, I remember after the Buccaneers game where Griese torched us, somebody on the d-line (I want to say it was Brown) basically said that no pass rush could get there fast enough to disrupt the QB when he could take a short drop and get the ball out immediately. What he was politely leaving unsaid was that Griese could throw immediately because he always had a guy open in the seams between the coverage zones (either between the CB and the safety or between the two safeties.) Those seams are effectively bigger when the safeties are too slow to the ball or run themselves out of the play. It might not be as big a deal if we didn't play our CBs in zone so much, but a poor safety in the Tampa-2 means that the receiver is open as soon as he leaves the CB's zone. That's what keeps happening to us on third and long when we go into the Tampa shell: the quarterback can get the ball out before the rush gets there, because there's always a guy uncovered after the CB passes him off and before the safety can pick him up. In that Tampa-2 four-man rush that we use on 3rd and long, there might be one rusher who can disrupt a quick pass pattern without help from the secondary, but it's not a DE. It's Tommie Harris. The under tackle's got the shortest path to the quarterback, and 2006 Edition Tommie Harris could definitely get into the backfield in a hurry. Even if the under tackle doesn't get to the QB, as long as he can collapse the middle and force the QB to sidestep or leave the pocket, that buys some more time for the edge rush even when the coverage can't. But the DEs in the Tampa-2 line up wide and run a big wide arc: they've just got a longer path to the QB, unless he's being flushed out to them. In the Tampa-2 on third downs, the DEs depend on the under tackle or the secondary forcing the QB to hold onto the ball - Alex Brown isn't as important in that situation as interior pass rush and solid coverage. Look, I totally agree that the pass rush and the coverage are interrelated and depend on each other to be effective, but it goes both ways. That's why you have things like coverage sacks forced by the secondary and picks forced by the pass rush. Unless Harris hops in a time machine back to 2005, the Bears are going to have to rely on the coverage to force the QB to hold onto the ball for just a second or two. The best edge rush in the world still takes a few seconds to get to the QB - that's why the West Coast offense was such an effective answer to the 46. I don't like the idea of getting rid of Brown, but the defense could be better off with no Brown and competent coverage from the safety position, especially in the kinds of situations that have been keeping our defense on the field for the last few seasons.

If I'm understanding it right, it's not that simple. The Rams have the right to match any offer until April 15, and after that his rights revert back to the Rams, meaning it would probably take a high draft pick to get him away from St. Louis. After April 15, he's no longer a free agent. The Rams then have his rights until June 1, at which point they have to either give him the one-year $7 million tender, get him to sign a long-term deal, or release him. Basically, if the Bears make a remotely reasonable offer to Atogwe before April 15 and he signs it, the Rams are almost sure to match it. And as long as the Bears' offer works out to less than $7 million for one season, the Rams are saving money by matching it. So if Angelo wanted to be sure that the Rams wouldn't match, the Bears would have to give Atogwe a deal like what Antrel Rolle's getting, something higher than Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu's deals. That's a ton of coin, especially after all the spending they've done already. Assuming that Atogwe wants out of St. Louis, he'd be wary of an offer sheet from the Bears: if he signs any reasonable offer sheet before April 15 he's basically re-signing with the Rams. His best bet is not to sign anything, let his rights revert to the Rams, and then ask for a trade. St. Louis can basically play Atogwe's interests against the teams that are trying to sign him, wait until April 16th, and then demand draft picks. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but getting the Rams to bow out would be either take significant draft picks or a VERY expensive contract.

In a normal offseason, I'd agree with you, but this year I don't think we can upgrade at free safety without downgrading somewhere else. It's the smallest FA pool I can remember, and we don't pick until Day 3 of the draft. I'd feel differently if there were any good UFA free safeties available or if we had a draft pick high enough to get a surefire starter (probably a 2nd-rounder in this year's draft) but there aren't, and we don't. So there might not be a ton of options to upgrade that position, and it's a massive hole. Without a trade, we need to get a Day 1 starter in the draft. Angelo and company could cross their fingers and hope Morgan Burnett falls to them in the 3rd, but he could easily be gone in the 2nd, and he's the last free safety on the board who I'd call a sure thing, at least for a team that needs an immediate starter. If we don't trade and everybody good is gone by #75, then we'll be banking on some late-round rookie stepping up in a huge way. If we don't luck out and find a diamond in the rough, then we're stuck with the same carousel of blown assignments, inadequate range in coverage, and crappy ball skills that we've seen for the last couple of seasons. Teams will keep burning us on third and long because the safeties can't get there in time. No amount of pass rush is going to keep a QB from hitting a skinny post on a 3-step drop, not when he knows there's going to be a hole in the coverage every single time. I mean, ideally we wouldn't have to choose between starting Idonije and starting Danieal Manning, but if we do, I'm picking Idonije every single time. I like Brown, I think he's a quality starter even if he doesn't make lots of big plays, but the dropoff between him and Idonije/Anderson is peanuts compared to the difference between any of our current free safeties and a remotely capable starter.

No, both of them are good at in-line blocking, and both of them usually line up next to the tackle, whereas the H-back is usually flexed out or lined up in the backfield. Guys like Chris Cooley are H-backs. But unlike Olsen, Cooley can lead block. H-backs don't necessarily have to be good at in-line blocking, but they DO have to be able to lead block. Your H-back has to act like a fullback on some plays and knock a linebacker out of the hole. That's why H-backs are usually built shorter and stockier than your average TE: basically you want a guy who's built like a jumbo fullback, but who can catch and run routes like a receiving TE. Olsen's not even close to an H-back type, looking at his skillset. He's way too lanky, doesn't have enough lower-body power, and he's an awful lead blocker. I think it's kind of damning to hear Lovie say that that's how Ron Turner was using him all this time. Moving Olsen to a more traditional TE role could benefit him. I would be VERY surprised if Olsen's blocking on the line is worse than his lead blocking. Remember when Turner used to call that strong I formation with Olsen lined up as a fullback and he'd just get blown up? That's the kind of thing you'd do with an H-back, and Olsen sucked at it. But if all he has to do is chip a guy at the line or help a tackle out on a double-team, he might be fine at that. And if he only has to be adequate on the line in order to keep the other team from playing him like an extra WR, then he'll get some good matchups in the passing game.

Yeah, there's no way it isn't a downgrade on the defensive line to lose Brown. We just don't have anybody behind him who's better than he is. Idonije's a nice utility player, Anderson's a big disappointment and fairly one-dimensional, and nobody else on the roster has done a thing. So since it's pretty clear that the d-line is worse without Brown, the only way I could consider trading or cutting him a good move is if it makes another position group better by the same amount. If we can trade him for a comparable player (steady, unspectacular, league-average-quality starter) at free safety, we need to get that deal done yesterday. I'm not talking about Atogwe, but maybe somebody more along the lines of a Donte Whitner? If we could send Brown for even an average starting-caliber FS, I'd call it a wash at worst. Even with all that's been said about Idonije and Mark Anderson, I'd way rather start one of them at DE than start Danieal Manning in the secondary. Likewise, if cutting Brown freed up the cash necessary to sign a quality starter at FS, that would be OK, too. But unless they can offset the loss of Brown with a comparable gain elsewhere, they need to hang onto him.

This was exactly my thinking. Once you're down into the 6th round or so, you just take the best available player. If the Bears took a running back in the 3rd, that would be one thing, but that's because they can probably get a starter at safety or on the o-line with that pick. But in the 6th, I wouldn't mind them taking a talented RB who could contribute down the road. Khalil Bell is far from an established player and Garrett Wolfe has been a poor fit, to say the least. I think Karim could easily be an upgrade over both. That should be enough to put him on the Bears' radar (which is what this thread is about) regardless of whether they actually end up picking him. Brown had more range: at least from what I've seen of Asante, I don't think he's going to be a FS like Brown. But I think Asante could be a big upgrade at SS.

Good call, those are pretty awesome, too.

Lousaka Polite, yeah. I don't know what happened there. He never got a shot to unseat McKie, and then he goes to the Dolphins the next year and lights it up.

Yeah, figured I would be. If it helps to bridge the gap, my all-time favorite throwbacks are the old Oilers uniforms. Those things were sweet.

Most of the guys I'm crossing my fingers for (Burnett, TJ Ward, Nate Collins, Ducasse, Chris Scott) have already been mentioned, so I'll add a couple of new ones: Third Round Rodger Saffold, OT, Indiana: Might not fall this far: Saffold was considered a 3rd-round prospect after a great Shrine Game, and he may have worked himself into the 2nd after a fantastic Combine. It's hard to gauge his value, since a lot of teams aren't sure if he'll stay at LT in the pros or move to the right side. Kind of an LT-RT tweener and isn't a bulldozer in the run game. If Martz wants a right tackle who can pass-protect like a left tackle, though, Saffold is the guy. Experienced player with 41 starts at left tackle, only allowed one sack in 2009. Fourth Round Larry Asante, SS, Nebraska: strong safety prospect. Doesn't have the range to play free safety, but has zone coverage skills that none of our current SS candidates can equal. Great hands for the interception, reads quarterbacks well, and loves to hit. Fifth Round Walter Thurmond, CB, Oregon: Similar to Zack Bowman, Thurmond's an elite talent with injury concerns. Some scouts had him as a late 1st- to 2nd-round pick before he tore ligaments in his knee back in September. Mel Kiper said he should have gone in the 1st round. If he can get back to 100% after knee surgery, he'll be a huge steal on Day 3. Excels in both zone and man coverage, is a great tackler, and was extremely productive. In 41 games as a starter, Thurmond had 236 tackles, 12 interceptions, 37 passes deflected, and 3 defensive touchdowns. Also an excellent punt returner. Sixth Round Deji Karim, RB, SIU: Scatback prospect, good receiver on screens (so Martz will like him,) and a willing pass blocker. Could be the third-down back that Garrett Wolfe was supposed to be, but Karim's 25 pounds heavier than Wolfe, and probably faster (timed as low as 4.37 in the 40.) Had a nasty 2009 season: carried 240 times for 1694 yards (7.1 YPC) and 18 TDs. Met with Bears reps at the Texas vs. The Nation game. Seventh Round Robert Vaughn, FS, UConn: Big East active leader in career interceptions with 12. Thin build for an NFL safety (generously listed at 6 feet, weight anywhere from 195-200 pounds) and might be too much of a pure coverage safety: comes from Connecticut's Cover 4 defense and admits that he wasn't asked to play in the box or take on blockers. Quickness and ability in coverage mean that he could potentially switch to corner in a zone scheme like the Bears', and he may fit better there than at FS.

That would be an awesome uniform as an alternate: black jersey with orange numbers, white pants with an orange/black stripe, black helmets. The Bears haven't had a good throwback in a long time (that orange/blue striped thing made them look like referees or soccer goalies or something.) Also, I might be the only one in here, but I think the Packers throwbacks are pretty cool. At the very least, they don't look like anything else.

Pretty much sums it up.

I think it's all speculation at this point. Especially with Grant: the guy plays the wrong position, he's 31, and he wasn't good enough to make the Seahawks when they desperately need help at safety. I think even the Bears can do better. If we're talking about beat writers speculating though, somebody was saying that the Bears might deal Olsen to the Patriots for James Sanders and a pick. It makes sense on paper: the Pats are flush at safety with Patrick Chung, Brandon Meriweather, and Brandon McGowan. Sanders is a smart player, relatively young and he's at least above-average in coverage. If we could deal Olsen for Sanders and the last of the Pats' 2nd-rounders, I'd be all about it. Hell, Sanders and a 3rd might be worth it...he sounds like he could be the leader that the secondary hasn't had since Mike Brown left. Here's what Belichick has to say about him: "James is an excellent leader. He plays with a good level of confidence. He's a very good physical player. He's a tough kid. Football's important to him. He's a very committed player, spends a lot of time in the classroom, studying, learning, watching tape, making sure he knows his assignments. I think he's a leader for any young player, forget young player, for any player to emulate and follow. I think he's very professional and you would like to have 53 players like James on your team in terms of his work ethic, his toughness [and] being a teammate."

Take this for what it's worth, but the Colts fans I've talked to all say that Jennings is a liability, even in nickel and dime packages. I guess if he can contribute on special teams he'd be worth a roster spot, but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't make it out of camp.

Yeah, you know, I used to think Tebow was going to be the next Florida QB to flame out horribly in the NFL, but I have to say that his work ethic is really impressive. I really like that he took all the criticism about his game seriously, responded diplomatically to it, then went right out and changed his throwing motion and cleaned up his footwork. If he lands in a place where he won't have to start right away and where he'll have some good coaching, I think he could do well just by virtue of his athleticism and his drive to improve. It's certainly not impossible: Aaron Rodgers had a terrible throwing motion coming out of college, and he came from another system (Tedford's) notorious for churning out QBs who couldn't hack it in the NFL. If Tebow gets an opportunity to sit for a couple of years like Rodgers did, and gets to work with a really good QB coach, I can see him working himself into a starting job.

According to Rotoworld, the official list of 40 times that's going out to NFL teams has Myron Rolle listed at a 4.76. I'm not a guy who puts a ton of stock in track times, but there's no arguing the point that that's WAY too slow for a free safety. With a time like that, he might have to convince some team that he can add weight and move to linebacker. Also, smart or not, the guy hasn't yet managed to learn one pretty crucial part of the position: ball skills. He has ONE interception in his entire career. One interception in 39 games, and in 35 of those he was starting: how's that going to work in a defense that needs the free safety to cause turnovers? I'm not trying to knock Rolle, but he is what he is: a smart, assignment-sound, textbook strong safety. He's got size, he's a tackling machine, he plays the run well, but he almost never makes any kind of a big play in coverage. We have like five strong safeties on the roster as it is. Rolle would give us six, and we still wouldn't have a single safety who can play in pass coverage. EDIT: As for Burnett, I kind of wish he hadn't blown it up at his pro day. I was hoping he'd slip to the Bears in the 3rd, but that's looking less and less likely. Maybe we can trade up on draft day. If Burnett falls to the one of the Patriots' 2nd-rounders, I might have to rethink my position on whether Angelo should trade Olsen.

I think you're exactly right. He's one of Lovie's guys, so they kept giving him shots at different starting positions. There's also the fact that a high 2nd-round pick is way too much to spend on a nickel DB and returner. The next four DBs picked after Danieal Manning were Roman Harper, Bernard Pollard, Richard Marshall, and Cedric Griffin. The first three are quality starting DBs, and Griffin has at least held down a starting job. All of them were taken after Manning - I'm sure that Angelo would be catching (even more) flak if he acknowledged that he passed on all four to spend the #42 overall pick on a project player from a tiny college, and now that guy's only going to play in sub-packages and on special teams. Basically, I think it's Angelo protecting one of his high draft picks and Lovie protecting one of his guys. Manning's a decent nickel and an excellent kick returner. I think it's pretty clear that he's never going to be anything else. If somebody wants to give us a third for him, that'd be good value.

Yeah, he's been struggling with severe depression and the word is that he doesn't want to play football any more.

What consistent production and dominance? He's lost a step or three and hasn't been able to reliably get off a jam for the past two seasons. And he's hardly consistent: in the 2008-2009 seasons he caught less than half the passes thrown to him. The only starting receiver who was less reliable over that span was Braylon Edwards. As for dominance, T.O. might have put up some decent yardage in recent years, but he got the ball thrown to him 249 times, so his yards-per-target are crap. I think of yards-per-target numbers for receivers like yards-per-carry for running backs. Signing T.O. is like signing a running back with a 2.8 YPC: sure, he can get you maybe 900 or 1000 yards, but only if you give him 350 carries. Any good starting receiver would have had WAY more production if he'd had as many opportunities as T.O. did. T.O. didn't even have good per-target production with Dallas in 2008: he got 140 passes thrown to him that season, and he barely squeaked over 1000 yards. For comparison, if Devin Hester had gotten 140 passes last year, he would have had 88 catches for 1165 yards. To find the last time T.O. had good yards-per-target, you have to go back to 2007 or even 2006. At the end of the day, we're talking about a receiver who gets nearly 250 passes in the last two seasons and only averages 900-950 yards a season. When you start looking at guys who got as many or more passes than T.O., they're all major #1 receivers: Larry Fitzgerald, Brandon Marshall, Andre Johnson, etc. Basically, T.O. can definitely still give you decent #2 receiver production, but only if you throw to him as much as a high-end #1 receiver. That's not a good deal. If Angelo has a time machine and can sign T.O. from 2006, then I'm all for it. But in 2010, T.O. looks like he's pretty much done.