defiantgiant

Ugh, I think you're right: it sounds like Jerry's leaning toward Massaquoi, but I'm not a fan at all. The last thing we need is another receiver with a case of the drops. We've had Berrian, Moose, now Hester (although I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for another season) - all of them had great ability, but they all tend to drop key passes. Drops for a receiver are a killer, regardless of talent. If DeSean Jackson didn't have those clutch drops, they'd be talking about him as the #1 receiver in Philly, not looking to acquire Boldin. I've said it before, but Massaquoi had the best QB in the draft, a potential #1 overall pick throwing to him, and he could never consistently bring the ball in. If a receiver's not able to consistently make the catch, he's not a weapon. Teams won't be afraid to single-cover him, so they'll be able roll coverage over to Hester, they'll be able to put another guy in the box to stop Forte, etc. I've said it a bunch here, but I just really hope we don't draft Massaquoi. The guy has bust written all over him.

If it were me, I'd take Harvin off my board entirely. In terms of his skill set, he's a poor-man's version of a player we already have on the roster, Devin Hester. He also comes from Urban Meyer's system, which has produced a huge number of busts at receiver (what's Chad Jackson doing these days?) He's also got pretty serious injury concerns and consistent, documented character problems going back to high school. All that aside, though, my main concern is this: we need a receiver who can step in and immediately contribute in a specific role - split end. We've got Hester on the flank, now we need a split end who can beat the jam, run routes over the middle, and be a reliable target for Cutler. That's not what Harvin is. The way he was used at Florida, he'd basically be learning an entirely new position if we tried him at #2 receiver - he'd have a learning curve like Hester's for the past couple of seasons, and that's not what we need. To really get the best out of Harvin, you'd need a team with two established receivers on the outside and a creative offensive coordinator who could put him in the slot, send him in motion in the backfield, use him in a lot of screens and let him work after the catch. That's what he's great at, and it's not even close to what the Bears need. We need a classic split end: a big, reliable target who's good on crossing routes and can secure the catch. Harvin's game isn't anything like that. He could do a lot of damage in a place like Kansas City, where they're likely going to be running a pass-heavy spread, plus they already have Dwayne Bowe and Bobby Engram on the outside. In Chicago, though, they need a big, reliable move-the-chains kind of receiver. Harvin would be a square peg in a round hole here.

Per PFT: "Sources: Bills Shopping Simpson Sources close to the National Football Post have informed us that the Buffalo Bills are looking to trade free safety Ko Simpson before this weekend’s draft in New York. The former fourth round draft choice has complied 143 tackles and 2 interceptions in three NFL seasons. The Bills have been active in the past week. On Friday, Buffalo traded away Pro Bowl offensive tackle Jason Peters to Philadelphia in return for multiple draft picks and are reportedly shopping wide receiver Roscoe Parrish and defensive end Chris Kelsay as well." Simpson's a young guy (still only 25) with plenty of potential, who could be had for a late-round pick. He hasn't exactly lived up to that potential in Buffalo, but it's hard to blame him, given how inept their defense was in general. Here's his scouting report when he came out of South Carolina: "Ko Simpson Position: Safety School: South Carolina Status: Senior Height: 6-1 Weight: 202 40-Yard Dash: 4.49 (EST) Positives: Ko Simpson is a solid player with a lot of range back in the secondary. He came on as a starter from the minute he walked on campus at South Carolina. He has impressive range and leaping ability, making him a true ballhawk in the secondary. He also is a solid tackling safety and could play either free or strong side. Negatives: Simpson may not have the best timed speed, and this may drop him a bit on some teams' draft boards. He lacks experience with only playing two seasons of college football. He also will be a 23-year-old rookie in '06, which is much older then most prospects with his experience. Overview: I believe Simpson is a mid-to-late 2nd-round prospect that may get picked higher due to team needs and being the No. 2 safety available in the draft. He is eligible for the draft as a true sophomore due to not playing in 2003, and should make for a decent prospect and developmental player. He won't make an impact immediately, but should provide a solid depth player." I think Simpson could be another reclamation project like Bullocks: taking a young guy with upside out of a bad situation and seeing if he can step up. Plus, if the Bears deal a 4th for Simpson, that frees us up to use #49 on a wide receiver and #99 on the best available player - maybe a corner, nose guard, Sam linebacker, or a pass-rusher. We could do worse than having Earl/Payne/Steltz at SS and Bullocks/Simpson/Bowman at FS.

Right, I know Turner wants a vertical threat, but he already has one. He needs somebody who can go over the middle. Plus, remember how Angelo said that whichever receiver they pick needs to be able to step in and contribute immediately? Outside of Hakeem Nicks and the other Tarheel receivers (because they basically ran a complete NFL route tree at UNC) no wideout in this draft offers better immediate impact than Robiskie. Ideally, I'd like to see us get somebody like Robiskie early, then spend a 5th-to-7th-rounder on Brandon Tate. Between his knee and the fact that he tested positive for weed at the Combine, he's going to drop like a rock: he's still got tons of experience in a pro-style offense, though, and before he got hurt, people in the ACC were saying he was a bigger threat than Nicks. He could end up being a massive steal.

Can he throw his quarterback under the bus, though?

I didn't see this posted anywhere yet: Angelo answered some questions about the upcoming draft, particularly with regards to getting a receiver. Highlights: Could the Bears trade up? JA: "I don't feel like we have enough ammunition to do that." Angelo didn't rule it out as a possibility but he acknowledged it would be tough to pull off if not impossible. Angelo says if the Bears draft a wideout in the first four rounds he believes it will be a player who will be able to step in and contribute as a rookie. When he was asked what the difference could be between a receiver at No. 49 or No. 99. JA: "If the receiver we like isn't there [at No. 49], it won't be a big difference." That could mean the Bears look at a guy like Virginia's Kevin Ogletree at the end of the third round or in the fourth round, or perhaps Oklahoma's Juaquin Iglesias if he slides that far. On Georgia wide receiver Mohamed Massaquoi: JA: "I like him very much. He's very explosive. He can do everything." Angelo said he had his best season this past year for the Bulldogs and said drops are maybe the one knock on him. Angelo also lauded Massaquoi's character, which can be an issue for some at the position.

This is pretty much it. Shaughnessy doesn't do well redirecting back inside - he's strictly an outside edge rusher. After his injuries, he hasn't seemed quick enough to get around the tackle, and he doesn't really have any other technique to fall back on.

That's all true, but just because he's played through it, that doesn't mean his injuries haven't affected his level of play. If I were the Bears, I'd probably take Shaughnessy off my board entirely. At the very least, I wouldn't want him before round 6 or 7.

I was dubious about picking him in the 1st, but yeah, if somehow he were to fall to 49, he'd be a massive steal. He almost certainly won't, though. He's one of the top 5 or 6 corners on the board, and he's probably a better safety prospect than most of the free safeties in the draft.

It sounds worse than that. PFT's reporting that he can "blink on command, squeeze hands, and respond to voices." That sounds pretty bad. The doctors are still saying that his injuries aren't career-threatening, but I don't know.

The same scouting report says Casillas' frame looks maxed out at 229. He might not even be able to get up to Lance Briggs' size, much less Urlacher's. I like him as a SS or nickel LB, though. As far as a replacement for Urlacher, I think the Bears have to find a way to trade back into the first round in 2010, then grab Mark Herzlich from Boston College. He could start out on the strong side, then in a year or two he'd be the perfect guy to take over for Urlacher.

I've been thinking some about Jonathan Casillas from Wisconsin: a lot of people are projecting him to fit better at strong safety than at OLB. He goes 6'1" 228, and he runs 4.5 - 4.63 in the 40, which is fast enough to play SS. From CBS Sports: Key and Diagnostic Skills: Casillas is a student of the game and is a very quick reader. He is aggressive getting to the ball and makes good adjustments on the move. He plays with good intensity and a high motor, but his lack of strength and size are concerns, especially when he tries to battle linemen in the trenches. He has good vision and ball anticipation skills, as he is generally in position to make the play. He is quick to react to keys and is the type that will patiently wait on misdirection rather than over-commit. Lateral Pursuit/Range: Casillas has very good speed and athletic ability to make plays sideline-to-sideline. He sifts through trash and has a sudden burst to close. He can knife through on the block, but can be stopped when he is contested. He demonstrates lateral quickness and has the burst to slip through tight areas. He flies around in pursuit and shows the range and change of direction agility to get in front of the ball carrier to make the tackle in space. Pass Defense: Casillas is very alert to the quarterback when dropping back in pass coverage. He has more than enough speed to blanket the tight end and runs tight on the hip of receivers during wheel routes downfield. He anticipates the play well and shows good urgency coming up to impact on underneath routes. Due to a lack of bulk and because of his impressive timed speed, some teams might even look at him as a strong safety, where his lack of strength playing in the box would not be an issue. He has the quickness and the change of direction agility to run with backs and tight ends up the seam and has the speed to get depth in his pass drop. He is flexible and fluid working in space, showing the vision and ability to play under control. He also shows good hip snap to accelerate quickly coming out of his backpedal. Zone Defense: Casillas shows the instincts and good anticipation skills to jump the route or play the ball. He is very aware of patterns developing and comes off the ball quickly to gain position and handle the receivers on crossing routes. He shows good zone drop awareness with above average pattern read ability. He also shows a good burst to close. I know that free safety is the bigger area of need, but if we can spend a 4th/5th to avoid starting Kevin Payne again, I'm all for it.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. The consensus on Shaughnessy seems to be that his injuries have left him a lot slower, and that he isn't stout enough to fit as a base end. If we're going DE in the fourth, I'd rather have Brandon Williams from Texas Tech. Also, if Kaluka Maiava's there in the 5th and we get him, I'll be happy. He could bulk up some and play Sam linebacker, or he could work on his coverage skills and push Kevin Payne at strong safety. At a minimum, he should be great on special teams.

I'd definitely like to see the Bears take the shotgun approach to receivers. I'll do one better, in fact: I'd like to see them take a receiver in the 2nd or 3rd, another one in the 5th-7th, and a third one as a UDFA. An NFL team needs to carry 5 receivers, generally, and could potentially carry 6. Assuming Chicago doesn't sign or trade for a veteran receiver, we'll have three guys who I think should DEFINITELY be on the roster next year: Hester, Bennett, and our 2nd/3rd-round pick. I'd like to see an open competition for the other two/three spots between Rideau, Aromashodu, Broussard, Rashied Davis, a late-round rookie and a UDFA. So let's say we draft Robiskie or Nicks or Iglesias in the 2nd, with the expectation that he'll make it onto the roster. Then we can pick up Johnny Knox in the 5th and Greg Carr from FSU as a priority free agent. I'd be happy with a depth chart of: 1. Hester 2. Bennett 3. Nicks/Robiskie/Iglesias 4. Knox 5. Davis 6. Rideau/Carr Again, that's all assuming we're not going to get a veteran receiver, which I would much rather have Chicago do.

First things first: I'd be way happier to get Iglesias in round two than Massaquoi. Iglesias is faster, produced way more, has better hands, runs better routes, gets separation much more easily, etc etc. Check out their scouting reports on CBS Sports: they break down every receiver's game area by area. At the end, they compare Iglesias to Bobby Engram and Massaquoi to...Keary Colbert. Engram and Colbert were both mid-2nd-round picks, but I think we know who turned out to be a steal and who turned out to be a massive reach. That's really my main point: I think it's a little pointless to debate the merits of reaching in general, rather than discussing a particular player and WHY he'd be considered a reach at that spot. Look at the guys on your list from small programs: Forte from Tulane, Tillman from Louisiana Lafayette, Manning from Abilene Christian. They were all considered reaches because of their level of competition: all three proved that they could be contributors (even Manning, now that he's at nickel) at the next level. So I'll put "level of competition" down as an OK reason to reach for a guy. Look at the guys from big programs, and ask yourself why they dropped: Bradley had major injury concerns, Johnson was a huge character risk, Bazuin wasn't considered athletic enough to be a pass-rusher or strong enough to be a base end. Hester was the only guy with no red flag, aside from the fact that he was very raw and would need to learn a non-returner position. Of those four, the questions about every single one of them turned out to be apt: Bradley couldn't get over his injuries, Johnson got in trouble with the law, Bazuin could never cut it as an NFL DE, and Hester is still learning his position. So you have to look at how much each player's issues hurt the team, and how much less valuable they were because of those issues. In Hester's case, he could be considered less valuable because he could only contribute IMMEDIATELY at returner (which he did on a historic scale) and would need to learn to be a WR. That's an OK reason to reach for someone: look how it turned out for Chicago. The other three, as it turns out, were considered less valuable for very good reason. That's why none of them are still on the team: they might have had some good points, but they couldn't contribute long-term because of the exact issues that were identified in the draft. Lesson learned: it's riskier to reach for someone who drops because of injuries, legal trouble, or physical inability to play his position. Massaquoi falls directly into that last category: if a wide receiver is a reach because he can't catch, don't reach for him.

Davis is more of a project, but he has one thing that neither of the Mikes have got: a huge arm. He can legitimately get the ball 65-70 yards through the air. We'd probably have to use an earlier pick on Davis, but he's a better prospect at this stage than Reilly or Teel.

That's true, but he's not the athlete that any of them are. He doesn't have Plax' jump ball/red-zone ability, Edwards' speed, or Boldin and TO's physical strength/ability to separate. Like I said, if he projected as a #1 wideout with some drop issues, that'd be one thing. But even when he's on his game, he's more of a #2/#3 guy, and he doesn't offer any outstanding quality that makes up for his drops.

Umm, are you saying there's no such thing as successful talent evaluation? It sounds like you're trying to argue that every NFL scouting department should just be throwing darts at a wall or something. I'm pretty sure, despite busts like David Terrell, that it's possible for scouts (and for that matter, other people who watch college football) to analyze a prospect based on college game tape. If you don't believe me, here's a pre-draft scouting report on Kyle Orton: Kyle Orton, QB, Purdue Sr 6-4, 233 By: Andy Silvester Another QB here in the 3-7 range, who could still end up dotted from the bottom of the 2nd round to the top of the fifth. Orton began life as a true freshman starter and has played in all seasons since. Positives A true safety-first QB. Will never, ever force a deep ball or anything into double coverage unless it absolutely needs it (just 5 picks in his senior year). He has the field-reading skills of a 10 year NFL vet and can diagnose a blitz instantly, and is happy to sit in against it and make his reads. Good timing is a huge part of his play, especially in the underneath and short-medium range passes. He won’t even consider parting with the ball until he is certain his receiver is open, and may be on a par with plenty of NFL quarterbacks when it comes to play action – think ol’ Peyton but slightly less polished. Negatives One thing will stick out to NFL scouts – watching him throw a long ball is just plain painful. They’re either off target ( a long way ), underthrown so the receiver has to slow down to a crawl to receive it, or he sits in the pocket so long he gets snapped in two. Another warning sign has to be his benching towards the end of his senior season when it all fell apart rather briskly. One more slight knock is that he played almost all of his college career out of the shotgun spread offense, and will take a long time to adjust to the complexities of an NFL passing scheme. Pro Potential Orton is one of those QBs that you just know can be successful in a particular system. In a short to intermediate passing game he could well be a comfortable NFL starter as long as he can adjust to the rigours of the big league. Best fit Somewhere in a conservative system with plenty of underneath passes (think the Patriots) where he has a couple of years to learn his trade at a higher level. He gets those two – solid NFL QB in a few years. You can't tell me that's not extremely accurate. Even allowing your argument: if this thread isn't for people to write what they think about whether the Bears should draft Massaquoi, then what is it for? A thread full of posts saying "I don't know if he's any good, and the scouts don't know either, I guess we'll just wait and see" would be pretty pointless.

I can tell you: he just plain drops way too many passes. He lets passes into his body or starts to make his move before he's got the ball secured, and that leads to drops. From watching Georgia games, I can't tell if he loses concentration or if his hands are really that bad, but he's got the best QB in the draft throwing to him and he can't secure the catch. Maybe his drops would be OK if he were a deep-threat, Randy Moss type of receiver, but he's not. He's built like Anquan Boldin and runs about as fast (or about as slow, depending on how you want to look at it,) but Massaquoi can't be relied upon to make the catch. A possession receiver who can't catch isn't much good to anyone.

I would be very, very happy if our draft shook out this way. Robiskie, McBath, and Fiammetta could all compete for starting spots, and Melton, Gill, and Vazquez could rotate in some as rookies. I agree with Stinger that we could use an upgrade at SAM 'backer at some point in the draft, but it's not a huge need. The only pick I have any problem with is Mike Teel. Teel's probably the reason that Kenny Britt could slip to the 2nd round: he makes a lot of poor decisions and throws way too many picks (59:49 TD:Int ratio.) He's been starting for four seasons, and this is the first time he's completed more than 60% of his passes. If we're going to spend a late-round pick on a QB from a less well-known program, I'd rather have Mike Reilly from Central Washington. Reilly's arm strength is pretty comparable to Teel's (neither one has a big-time arm,) but his production has been much better. Reilly's stats: 2008: 270/414 (65.2%) for 3706 yards 37 TDs, 7 INTs 2007: 271/435 (62.3%) for 3386 yards, 30 TDs, 10 INTs 2006: 231/351 (65.8%) for 2660 yards, 21 TDs, 13 INTs 2005: 223/353 (63.2%) for 2696 yards, 30 TDs, 11 INTs Here are Teel's numbers, for comparison: 2008: 243/396 (61.4%) for 3418 yards, 25 TDs, 13 INTs 2007: 203/349 (58.2%) for 3162 yards, 20 TDs, 13 INTs 2006: 164/296 (55.4%) for 2135 yards, 12 TDs, 13 INTs 2005: 51/101 (50.5%) for 683 yards, 2 TDs, 10 INTs To be fair, Reilly's passing yards are slightly inflated from playing in a spread offense: the stats that I'm interested in (the ones that reflect on the player, regardless of scheme) are completion percentage and TD:INT ratio. Both of them improved each year, but Reilly's worst season completion percentage is better than Teel's best, and Reilly's worst TD:INT ratio is better than all but one of Teel's. Remember, also, that Reilly didn't have a 1st-2nd round receiver like Kenny Britt to throw to, Ray Rice running the ball, or Jeremy Zuttah and Pedro Sosa blocking for him. Even with a much worse supporting cast, he still outperformed Teel.

Couple of observations: A lot of Hanie's throws were pretty off-target, and his footwork is a little suspect. His dropbacks were much less clean and controlled than Cutler's and Basanez'. He's got a pretty live arm, though. Basanez definitely has the least velocity of the three, but I think he looked even more accurate than Cutler, which is saying something. He was putting everything right on the money. That said, accuracy doesn't protect you from getting picked off if the ball takes too long to get there (ask Brian Griese about that.) He's got a reasonably quick release, but the ball just isn't going very fast after it leaves his hand. That'll get him in trouble with DBs jumping his receivers' routes. Still, if the season opened today, I think Basanez would probably beat Hanie for the backup QB spot. I think he could end up being a quality backup for a long time. Cutler has an arm like a howitzer. His release is quick, his throwing motion is good, and jesus the ball leaves his hand in a hurry. He also looked much more athletic than the other two: watching him use his feet, you can see why he's good at avoiding pressure and extending the play. He had a couple of off-target throws in the receiver drills (he put a couple of balls out of the receiver's reach when they were doing those comeback routes) but, by and large, looked very accurate.

"Analysts say that, while the move is somewhat unorthodox, Chicago was prudent in passing on veteran free agents Amani Toomer and Joe Jurevicius in favor of offering the tire swing a 3-year, $2.4 million contract." This sentence made the whole article. Hilarious.

He does need to work on his concentration, but missing 29 out of 70 targets isn't that bad. That's still a 58.5% catch rate, which is better than Devin Hester's. Brandon Marshall's catch rate is actually lower: he failed to secure 78 of 182 passes thrown to him, for a 57.1% catch rate. I do like that this scouting report points out the fact that he doesn't run like a receiving tight end. A lot of fast TEs, even awesome ones like Olsen, don't really have a second gear. They're fast enough to get into the open, but they sort of do everything at one speed. In the game tape I've seen of Cook, he can throttle down to separate, then get a burst out of his cut, just like a wideout. In response to BearSox, my thinking was actually that Cook has better value as a WR than TE. If you used him as a TE, he'd be a very-poor-man's Olsen: he's even worse as a blocker than Olsen, ten pounds lighter, and has more inconsistent hands. Defenses would know he was in as an eligible receiver every time. If he dropped a little weight and played split end, though, I think he'd be a matchup nightmare. Like I said above, he runs like a receiver now, and he's at least as fast as the Anquan Boldin/Larry Fitz-type receivers in the NFL.

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I didn't think there'd be this level of interest in Franklin; the Bears never had a shot at him, judging from the other teams that put in waiver claims. Aside from the Lions, the Raiders, Rams, Colts, and Eagles all put in claims. Given the Lions' depth chart after Megatron, he could probably see the field for them.

You pretty much nailed it. Pittsburgh is an all-around superior team. I love the Bears, but you've got to admit it'd be an upset if we beat the Steelers. As for the Cards, you're right again: their passing game is what makes me think we can't beat them. We had trouble stopping Brian Griese throwing to Antonio Bryant and Ike Hilliard last season; what's going to happen when that same secondary, minus Mike Brown, has to stop Kurt Warner throwing to Larry Fitz and Anquan Boldin? Unless we find an absolute gem of a free safety in this draft AND Vasher steps back up, a team like Arizona is going to throw all over us.