Guest TerraTor Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 Nm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 Nm i guess for the same STUPID reason peanut was. i understand you want rookies to get some game experience and a feel for the NFL but.... why put your premium players at risk in a high impact, high risk squad? cornerback is one of the premium positions and next to QB the hardest to replace, or even FIND in the draft, with a high quality starting player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 i guess for the same STUPID reason peanut was. i understand you want rookies to get some game experience and a feel for the NFL but.... why put your premium players at risk in a high impact, high risk squad? cornerback is one of the premium positions and next to QB the hardest to replace, or even FIND in the draft, with a high quality starting player. All true. But it simply isn't unusual to see rookies, even highly drafted ones, on ST's until they become starters. Hopefully his injury is minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 All true. But it simply isn't unusual to see rookies, even highly drafted ones, on ST's until they become starters. Hopefully his injury is minor. in most instances i would agree. but with players that are that hard to come by in my opinion it's flat out stupid. would we draft a QB in the first round and put him on special teams? if not then i question their policy with this high of a pick of a player that is this scarce to find quality in. one knee injury on special teams and you have virtually wasted a top flight corner for no reason. and peanut on special teams? he has NO business in there especially considering his quality and age unless it is in a superbowl and you are going all out with the possibility to still win that particular game. EDIT: leslie fraser comes to mind where we virtually destroyed our best corner on special teams play (although being in a superbowl game it is SOMEWHAT understandable though i still believe it was a mistake). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 and peanut on special teams? he has NO business in there especially considering his quality and age unless it is in a superbowl and you are going all out with the possibility to still win that particular game. We agree on this. I'm just saying that in the NFL it isn't uncommon. Urlacher was on ST as a rookie, IIRC. As to the injury, reports are X-Rays are negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 We agree on this. I'm just saying that in the NFL it isn't uncommon. Urlacher was on ST as a rookie, IIRC. As to the injury, reports are X-Rays are negative. that is great on the injury report. on the url playing as a rookie... i believe it is a different scenario. ultimate speed is not as critical to a linebacker or even other positions with the possible exception of a high pick speed oriented defensive end. a corner is all about speed and coverage ability. without speed you can have a good or better #2 corner such as peanut but a high flight cover corner relies on speed without exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 There's really no excuse to use any of your high draft picks or starters on special teams in pre-season with the amount of bodies you have in camp. I really think the rosters should be expanded in the regular season for that very reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 So you guys want to create another group of pussy divas? All young players except QB'S should play special teams if needed. It's nearly one third of the game! Agreed on Peanut.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 So you guys want to create another group of pussy divas? All young players except QB'S should play special teams if needed. It's nearly one third of the game! Agreed on Peanut.. It's interesting if you try to do the math it's hard to field ST's without some starters. You have to eliminate all QB's, all starters, all fat guys, the punter or the kicker, depending... But Peanut shouldn't be out there! And I can live with letting 1rst rounders off the hook too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted August 15, 2014 Report Share Posted August 15, 2014 So you guys want to create another group of pussy divas? ummmm.... no. a first round pick is a franchise move. it effects the health of your team, cap and starter quality, for years to come who hopefully turn out to be a part of the core of your offense and defense. to throw specific (as i stated in previous posts) types of first round picks out there on special teams is ludicrous whether it is common practice in the NFL or not. a cornerback is NOT like any other player with the exception of a speed DE and one you will pay through the nose to draft or find in free agency (IF it's even possible) and keep on your roster. to take a chance on this important of a player getting injured by some 2nd or 3rd string wannabe trying to make the team or hold his position as a backup player defies common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Give me a break. This is just complaining to complain. Look around the league, most defensive players that are early picks are on ST unit and a lot of starters end up on ST units as well. And for those saying, just don't do it in the preseason game, well...what happens then..just let the mistakes happen during a regular season game? You have to get some practice. The whole 4 preseason games is insane anyway, should just be 2 in which the starters play more, but that is beside the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Give me a break. This is just complaining to complain. Look around the league, most defensive players that are early picks are on ST unit and a lot of starters end up on ST units as well. And for those saying, just don't do it in the preseason game, well...what happens then..just let the mistakes happen during a regular season game? You have to get some practice. The whole 4 preseason games is insane anyway, should just be 2 in which the starters play more, but that is beside the point. i don't see a difference between offensive and defensive players in this scenario. if that's the case, then you're good with this if we drafted a QB number one overall and putting him on special teams? what the league does and what is smart do NOT always coincide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 i don't see a difference between offensive and defensive players in this scenario. if that's the case, then you're good with this if we drafted a QB number one overall and putting him on special teams? what the league does and what is smart do NOT always coincide. QB's don't have the ability to succeed on special teams. Given the number of slow fat man and QB's on a roster, you pretty much have to have a few starters on ST's and usually you'll have back-up wideouts who are athletes and solid gunners and of course members of your defense, since they are usually good tacklers. It is just the way it is. This is the case across the entire NFL league. ST's is also a pretty big area where games can be lost so if you want to not play some of your better tacklers / special teams players, you are risking some potential very negative plays that can cost you ball games. It is why I have been so adamant in how big of a disaster Joey D is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 QB's don't have the ability to succeed on special teams. Given the number of slow fat man and QB's on a roster, you pretty much have to have a few starters on ST's and usually you'll have back-up wideouts who are athletes and solid gunners and of course members of your defense, since they are usually good tacklers. It is just the way it is. This is the case across the entire NFL league. ST's is also a pretty big area where games can be lost so if you want to not play some of your better tacklers / special teams players, you are risking some potential very negative plays that can cost you ball games. It is why I have been so adamant in how big of a disaster Joey D is. i can agree completely using your backups or even 2nd round down draft picks to temporarily fit in on special teams until they establish the quality of player they are. THEN i'd be damned if i would put a stud starting player on ST for any reason other than to win a superbowl IN the superbowl. i also would NOT put in a first round rookie pick on ST's and especially the core players i list below!!! it is flat out stupid to do so before you know what kind of quality you have in that player and risk injury to someone getting paid that much money and who is THAT important to the health of your franchise to WIN a superbowl. now, i really hate to bring this guy into the equation cause in my opinion he was a terrible QB but... lets say Teebo was a good QB and would have been good enough to get drafted in the top 5 even. he certainly has enough physical ability to play on special teams. would you have started him on ST's his rookie season? in my opinion there are four to five key franchise core players that can make or break a team. in number of importance - QB, pass rushing DE, CB or LT (take your pick on these two). every one of these key players are RARE for a franchise to find a stud even drafting high in the first round. so, would i bet MY franchises future by putting one of these 1st round pick players on special teams his rookie season? no! the chance of injury is more than doubled if you do. but you ask... what about special teams and their importance. this is what drafting well and good choices in free agency does. it fills up these ST spots with lower picked/quality players needed to develop or work their way into a starting position and not risking every down good starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 i can agree completely using your backups or even 2nd round down draft picks to temporarily fit in on special teams until they establish the quality of player they are. THEN i'd be damned if i would put a stud starting player on ST for any reason other than to win a superbowl IN the superbowl. i also would NOT put in a first round rookie pick on ST's and especially the core players i list below!!! it is flat out stupid to do so before you know what kind of quality you have in that player and risk injury to someone getting paid that much money and who is THAT important to the health of your franchise to WIN a superbowl. now, i really hate to bring this guy into the equation cause in my opinion he was a terrible QB but... lets say Teebo was a good QB and would have been good enough to get drafted in the top 5 even. he certainly has enough physical ability to play on special teams. would you have started him on ST's his rookie season? in my opinion there are four to five key franchise core players that can make or break a team. in number of importance - QB, pass rushing DE, CB or LT (take your pick on these two). every one of these key players are RARE for a franchise to find a stud even drafting high in the first round. so, would i bet MY franchises future by putting one of these 1st round pick players on special teams his rookie season? no! the chance of injury is more than doubled if you do. but you ask... what about special teams and their importance. this is what drafting well and good choices in free agency does. it fills up these ST spots with lower picked/quality players needed to develop or work their way into a starting position and not risking every down good starters. You are right, Deion Sanders should have never played special teams. Only Devin Hester because he was a second rounder. I agree with you almost always. This time, not even close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 QB's don't have the ability to succeed on special teams. Wait a cotton-pickin' minute there fella! I seem to recall a certain QB from Washington who was a helluva punter! Video proof here! UPDATE: The video doesn't actually play but the guy does a GREAT job of describing the 45-10 ass-kicking the Bears put on the Skins that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 Wait a cotton-pickin' minute there fella! I seem to recall a certain QB from Washington who was a helluva punter! Video proof here! UPDATE: The video doesn't actually play but the guy does a GREAT job of describing the 45-10 ass-kicking the Bears put on the Skins that day. I don't even need to look at the video...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted August 18, 2014 Report Share Posted August 18, 2014 I don't even need to look at the video...lol HA!!! Wasn't Jimmy Mac on Johnny Carson a few months later and he was asked to respond to criticism from Theismann and McMahon just said something like "I don't take guys who can only punt one yard seriously." Those were the days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 Didn't Doug Flutie kick too? Check out #10 on this list. And was number 6 during Trestman' s tenure? Hmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted August 19, 2014 Report Share Posted August 19, 2014 You are right, Deion Sanders should have never played special teams. Only Devin Hester because he was a second rounder. I agree with you almost always. This time, not even close. the NFL was a bit different in that era. there was no salary cap and there were only 28 teams vs. 32 teams of today. that is a huge difference maker in the amount of quality players being drafted (over 200 more players of today and roughly 88 more starters per year out of the talent pool). plus today with the cap in place your high pick draftee's salaries can limit what you can accomplish if one becomes a bust or is injured. we have SEEN this personally in chicago with our first round busts do to injury, talent or the combination of both. also the type of play, the rules, and the speed of the game were different 25 years ago. that said... if it were me i certainly would never have put the 5th pick in the draft on special teams as a kick returner as a rookie even in THAT era. then again nobody ever contended campbell or hanifan should have been inducted into the hall-of-fame as NFL coaches either. i think the RISK does not even come close to the reward. but then, to each his own. so it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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