Jimmy Clausen

[madlithuanian]

At the moment, that logic seems like it would have been the better call. But given that I'm starting to think Trestman is part of the problem...maybe it wouldn't really matter.

 

I don't think anyone thought McCown was the answer long term. I personally wanted him to take the reigns at QB for a year or two, while Trestman found a younger replacement that fit his system. The money saved from Cutler being used to get real LB's and safeties.

 

['TD']

At the moment, that logic seems like it would have been the better call. But given that I'm starting to think Trestman is part of the problem...maybe it wouldn't really matter.

I believe in Trestman's ability as a coach. I know it's next to impossible for me to defend. I could point to the number 2 offense last year, and others could point to the failure this year. Trestman will likely go before Cutler because of the investment made.

 

I just think Cutler is a coach killer. Shannahan, Turner, Martz, Tice, and Lovie lost their jobs as OC or HC due to their teams under performing with Cutler as QB. I'm not saying I'm a fan of all those coaches, or it was all on Cutler, but a pattern is emerging now, and Trestman is on the hot seat too.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I believe in Trestman's ability as a coach. I know it's next to impossible for me to defend. I could point to the number 2 offense last year, and others could point to the failure this year. Trestman will likely go before Cutler because of the investment made.

 

I just think Cutler is a coach killer. Shannahan, Turner, Martz, Tice, and Lovie lost their jobs as OC or HC due to their teams under performing with Cutler as QB. I'm not saying I'm a fan of all those coaches, or it was all on Cutler, but a pattern is emerging now, and Trestman is on the hot seat too.

 

I second your thoughts. I recently read an article that mentioned what you did above (bolded). Obviously I have a bias for Lovie but that aside some of the others mentioned; Shannahan, Turner and Martz were/are revered for the respective specialties. Mostly offense in nature. Each have had a hand in successful teams and some (Martz/Shannahan) have been to Super Bowls to prove it.

 

At any rate, I also agree with Mad that it is unfortunate that the critics have been slowly proven right about Cutler. I admittedly have been one of them but deep down inside I wanted to be wrong. (Call it a form of reverse psychology). When Cutler came to Chicago in 09 I was beside myself with anticipation. I bought in full time. But slowly lost my trust in each game killing interception and turnover. I still look at him and wish he could just 'figure it out' but fear that won't happen. I'm convinced he's a newer version of Rex Grossman where he doesn't have the field vision needed to perform consistently at the elite level.

 

As far as Trestman. I have faith if given the right QB for his system, he could prove successful. I think he also thought Cutler could be taught but is finding it challenging beyond his own expectations. Maybe something will click in the remaining 9 weeks of play, we can only hope.

['TD']

I second your thoughts. I recently read an article that mentioned what you did above (bolded). Obviously I have a bias for Lovie but that aside some of the others mentioned; Shannahan, Turner and Martz were/are revered for the respective specialties. Mostly offense in nature. Each have had a hand in successful teams and some (Martz/Shannahan) have been to Super Bowls to prove it.

 

Shannahan got fired after blowing a 3 game lead with 3 games left to go. It reminds me of last year. The Bears needed win against either the Eagles or Packers and lost both games.

 

Lovie Smith got fired because he didn't make the playoffs 5 out of 6 years. Cutler lead teams were in the playoffs 1 time out of 4 of those years.

 

The Bears decided to move in a new direction and took the emphasis off D and put it onto O. The Bears may have their worst record in 10 years this year.

 

Laurence Holmes has mentioned a talk he had with a former personnel guy in the NFL. The guy told him that he was leery of QB's that were the only player on their team coming out of college. They have to over compensate for the other players and pick up bad habits that are hard to get rid of. I think that's likely what happened with Cutler, and after 10 years of playing with those habits, I don't see it changing.

[Lucky Luciano]

I just think Cutler is a coach killer. Shannahan, Turner, Martz, Tice, and Lovie lost their jobs as OC or HC due to their teams under performing with Cutler as QB. I'm not saying I'm a fan of all those coaches, or it was all on Cutler, but a pattern is emerging now, and Trestman is on the hot seat too.

 

coach killer? really??

 

shanny got fired because he wasn't producing with or without cutler (cutler was ONLY in his 2nd season in denver under shanny) once elway retired and he fielded the mighty griese and the indomitable jake plummer over an 8 year stretch. he was in denver for 14 years and was fired by the same IDIOT that hired mcdaniels as a HC. that in itself says it all.

 

turner? are you serious? turner never even should have been hired as any kind of a coach after the performance as HC of illinois. where did he land after the bears? hmmm

 

martz?? surely you jest. again another coach from the dust bin nobody in their right mind BUT lovie and angelo would have wanted as ANY kind of coach. with the personnel he had in chicago trying to run the same rams offense was ludicrous and nearly ended cutlers life. where did he go after chicago? hmmmmmm

 

tice??? this guy may have been even worse than shoop-a-doop. a complete idiot who NEVER was an OC in his life and never should have been. another genius hire by super coach lovie smith and the always amazing jerry angelo. and where is this juggernaut of an offensive genius? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

and finally trestman - he has been here for 1 1/2 seasons!!! how is that any judge of a first-go-round HC in the NFL who landed in chicago with the worst personnel on a roster of ANY team i can remember. we had absolutely NOTHING on offense OR defense except a qb and rb.

 

puhhleease.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

coach killer? really??

 

shanny got fired because he wasn't producing with or without cutler (cutler was ONLY in his 2nd season in denver under shanny) once elway retired and he fielded the mighty griese and the indomitable jake plummer over an 8 year stretch. he was in denver for 14 years and was fired by the same IDIOT that hired mcdaniels as a HC. that in itself says it all.

 

In a random span of 1996-2006 Shannahan was able to get his Denver Broncos to the playoffs seven times. Twice winning the Super Bowl in that timeframe. For the three years to include years 2006-08 including Cutler...mediocrity. (2006: 9-7 *Cutler was officially named the starter in November of this year by the way, 2007: 7-9, 2008: 8-8). Would you look at that, a perfect .500! How interesting. Hmmmmmmmm...

 

turner? are you serious? turner never even should have been hired as any kind of a coach after the performance as HC of illinois. where did he land after the bears? hmmm

 

Turner was OC for the Bears from 93-96 and again 05-09. In that timeframe he coached both Eric Kramer and Rex Grossman. Both players set respective team records in yards passed during his tenure* (Source: Wikipedia). And one made a Super Bowl appearance. hmmmm....

 

martz?? surely you jest. again another coach from the dust bin nobody in their right mind BUT lovie and angelo would have wanted as ANY kind of coach. with the personnel he had in chicago trying to run the same rams offense was ludicrous and nearly ended cutlers life. where did he go after chicago? hmmmmmm

 

Wow, you are ok with totally discounting his overall record of 53-32 and the fact he too made two Super Bowl appearances while with the Rams? And to answer your question where he is currently? Broadcasting just like Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy, Steve Mariucci, Mike Ditka, Jay Gruden, Brian Billick, etc, etc, etc.... (Quiz: besides broadcasting, what's common between all these guys?)

 

tice??? this guy may have been even worse than shoop-a-doop. a complete idiot who NEVER was an OC in his life and never should have been. another genius hire by super coach lovie smith and the always amazing jerry angelo. and where is this juggernaut of an offensive genius? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Not much I can offer in recourse on this one other than to say his overall HC record was 32-33 (to include a few 8-8 and 9-7 records). Let's see, who does that remind me of??? Hmmmmm.....

 

and finally trestman - he has been here for 1 1/2 seasons!!! how is that any judge of a first-go-round HC in the NFL who landed in chicago with the worst personnel on a roster of ANY team i can remember. we had absolutely NOTHING on offense OR defense except a qb and rb.

 

Oh there's the answer I was looking for. He "landed in Chicago with the WORST PERSONNEL ON ANY ROSTER"? What? Unless I was mistaken, Cutler was there when he arrived, as was Marshall and Jeffery (both arrived in 2012) and uhmmmmm, who was it? Forte. Oh yeah those guys are Horrible...well at least most of them.

 

puhhleease.

 

As usual you prove yourself to be nothing more than a blowhard.

[Lucky Luciano]

In a random span of 1996-2006 Shannahan was able to get his Denver Broncos to the playoffs seven times. Twice winning the Super Bowl in that timeframe. For the three years to include years 2006-08 including Cutler...mediocrity. (2006: 9-7 *Cutler was officially named the starter in November of this year by the way, 2007: 7-9, 2008: 8-8). Would you look at that, a perfect .500! How interesting. Hmmmmmmmm...

 

 

 

Turner was OC for the Bears from 93-96 and again 05-09. In that timeframe he coached both Eric Kramer and Rex Grossman. Both players set respective team records in yards passed during his tenure* (Source: Wikipedia). And one made a Super Bowl appearance. hmmmm....

 

 

 

Wow, you are ok with totally discounting his overall record of 53-32 and the fact he too made two Super Bowl appearances while with the Rams? And to answer your question where he is currently? Broadcasting just like Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy, Steve Mariucci, Mike Ditka etc, etc, etc....

 

 

 

Not much I can offer in recourse on this one other than to say his overall HC record was 32-33 (to include a few 8-8 and 9-7 records). Let's see, who does that remind me of??? Hmmmmm.....

 

 

 

Oh there's the answer I was looking for. He "landed in Chicago with the WORST PERSONNEL ON ANY ROSTER"? What? Unless I was mistaken, Cutler was there when he arrived, as was Marshall and Jeffery (both arrived in 2012) and uhmmmmm, who was it? Forte. Oh yeah those guys are Horrible...well at least most of them.

 

 

 

As usual you prove yourself to be nothing more than a blowhard.

 

if i thought your opinion was in any way knowledgeable or worth a tinkers dam on any subject relating to professional football i would respond. as it is?

 

so it goes.

['TD']

coach killer? really??

 

shanny got fired because he wasn't producing with or without cutler (cutler was ONLY in his 2nd season in denver under shanny) once elway retired and he fielded the mighty griese and the indomitable jake plummer over an 8 year stretch. he was in denver for 14 years and was fired by the same IDIOT that hired mcdaniels as a HC. that in itself says it all.

 

Shanahan made it to the playoffs 3 years in a row, then went 9-7 and missed the playoffs. He started Cutler officially and went 7-9 and 8-8 and then was fired. That was the first time a team blew a 3 game lead in a division with 3 games left since the divisions were created in 67. Cutler threw ints in each game. Shanahan was fired after.

 

Turner and Martz i don't want to rehash and spread too far off topic. Tice I agree sucked, but no one else would take the job given the circumstances. Even the idiot McDaniels didn't want to hitch his wagon to Cutler.

[Mongo3451]

I believe in Trestman's ability as a coach. I know it's next to impossible for me to defend. I could point to the number 2 offense last year, and others could point to the failure this year. Trestman will likely go before Cutler because of the investment made.

 

I just think Cutler is a coach killer. Shannahan, Turner, Martz, Tice, and Lovie lost their jobs as OC or HC due to their teams under performing with Cutler as QB. I'm not saying I'm a fan of all those coaches, or it was all on Cutler, but a pattern is emerging now, and Trestman is on the hot seat too.

He must have killed them good, cause none of them are doing much these days. (Lovie excluded)

['TD']

He must have killed them good, cause none of them are doing much these days. (Lovie excluded)

Lol, I wouldn't say Lovie is necessarily doing much. I really hope he doesn't pull an upset off on the Bears.

[Lucky Luciano]

Shanahan made it to the playoffs 3 years in a row, then went 9-7 and missed the playoffs. He started Cutler officially and went 7-9 and 8-8 and then was fired. That was the first time a team blew a 3 game lead in a division with 3 games left since the divisions were created in 67. Cutler threw ints in each game. Shanahan was fired after.

 

denver vs. panthers - loss - 30 to 10

 

well let's see... 2 turnovers in the game.

 

one cutler INT on the bronco's own 16 yard line. results - 3 points for the panthers on a field goal. when was this in the game? the FIRST quarter.

 

SECOND quarter - one fumble by selvin young on bronco's 18. results a panthers field goal

 

sounds like denver's defense was wonderful - gave up 400 total yards and 30 points.

 

================

 

denver vs. buffalo - loss - 23 to 30 - 2 turnovers

 

denver passing yds: 188 - rushing yds: 87 - total yds: 275

buffalo passing yds: 351 - rushing yds: 181 - total yds: 532

 

one fumble by b. marshall 3rd quarter - results field goal

 

one cutler INT on bills 15 with 5:42 in 4th quarter - bills ahead at this time by 7 - denver holds bills to 3 and out. bronco's give the bills the ball back on 4 downs at the buffalo 15 - end of game

 

GREAT job by denvers defense to only give up 30 points and 532 yds offense.

 

================

 

denver vs. chargers - loss - 21 to 52 - 2 turnovers - cutler INT's

 

denver passing yds: 316 - rushing yds: 90 - total yds 406

chargers passing yds: 202 - rushing yds: 289 - total yds: 491

 

two cutler INT's

1. 1:13 left in first half on chargers 14 yd line - no points by chargers before half - score 24 - 6 chargers

2. 9:48 left in 3rd quarter on denver 14 yd. line - result in TD by chargers - score 38 - 13 chargers

 

and yet another stellar defensive performance by denvers defense. 52 points and almost 500 yds in offense.

 

summary: yes cutler throws INT's. we knew this when we traded 2 first round draft picks for him. but to say he is the cause of denvers failure in 2008 is just plain not true. did he have stellar games in that period? no. but these losses on his back? i don't think so.

[Chitownhustla]

In my previous post I was trying to get across the fact that maybe Trestman needs more time with Cutler and that maybe getting Immediate results is not realistic. Cutler has come along way but is not all the way there yet.

 

Reason for Trent Dilfers comments that he is on the right track now, he wasn't on the right track prior to Trestman coming to town.

 

 

Gannon Numbers prior to trestman with Gruden as the coach

 

1999 ---59% ---3800 --- 24/7 --- 86

2000 --- 60% ---3400 --- 28/11 --- 92

 

 

After trestman

 

2001 ---65% ---- 3800 --- 27/9 --- 95

2002 ---67% ---4659 ----26/10 ---- 97

 

 

Trestman got Gannon to increase his completion percentage 7%...... QB Rating went from 86 to 97.... Gannon's best year was his 2nd year with Trestman.

 

 

 

Right now Cutler is at

 

67% with a QB rating of 94.4, his best numbers ever. Last year Cutler got a half of year due to injuries. Maybe that set him back. As I have said before, Cutler is close, a few mistakes here and there and we would have nothing to complain about.

 

I guess what Im saying Cutler is on the right track and maybe with a little more time we will get over this last hurdle. He is getting paid Elite money because of that he needs to eliminate the couple of crap decisions he makes throughout games right now.

 

Cutler over the years

 

 

Before trestman

 

2009 --- 60% Rating of 76

2010 --- 60 Rating of 86

2011 ---58 Rating of 85

2012 ---58 Rating of 81

 

 

After Trestman

 

2013--- 63 Rating of 89

2014 --- 67 Rating of 94

 

 

 

I used these stats because they show that he completing a higher percentage of his passes and the rating takes a bunch of factors in to account. His QB rating is up from a Low

of 76 to a high of 94. Eliminate a couple of the stupid plays that resulted in INT and his rating would be even better. I hope he can do that, real soon.

 

Cutler has not performed to what I had hoped he would this year, but he is improving. I hope he keeps improving.

['TD']

denver vs. panthers - loss - 30 to 10

 

well let's see... 2 turnovers in the game.

 

one cutler INT on the bronco's own 16 yard line. results - 3 points for the panthers on a field goal. when was this in the game? the FIRST quarter.

 

SECOND quarter - one fumble by selvin young on bronco's 18. results a panthers field goal

 

sounds like denver's defense was wonderful - gave up 400 total yards and 30 points.

 

================

 

denver vs. buffalo - loss - 23 to 30 - 2 turnovers

 

denver passing yds: 188 - rushing yds: 87 - total yds: 275

buffalo passing yds: 351 - rushing yds: 181 - total yds: 532

 

one fumble by b. marshall 3rd quarter - results field goal

 

one cutler INT on bills 15 with 5:42 in 4th quarter - bills ahead at this time by 7 - denver holds bills to 3 and out. bronco's give the bills the ball back on 4 downs at the buffalo 15 - end of game

 

GREAT job by denvers defense to only give up 30 points and 532 yds offense.

 

================

 

denver vs. chargers - loss - 21 to 52 - 2 turnovers - cutler INT's

 

denver passing yds: 316 - rushing yds: 90 - total yds 406

chargers passing yds: 202 - rushing yds: 289 - total yds: 491

 

two cutler INT's

1. 1:13 left in first half on chargers 14 yd line - no points by chargers before half - score 24 - 6 chargers

2. 9:48 left in 3rd quarter on denver 14 yd. line - result in TD by chargers - score 38 - 13 chargers

 

and yet another stellar defensive performance by denvers defense. 52 points and almost 500 yds in offense.

 

summary: yes cutler throws INT's. we knew this when we traded 2 first round draft picks for him. but to say he is the cause of denvers failure in 2008 is just plain not true. did he have stellar games in that period? no. but these losses on his back? i don't think so.

So he lead an offense that put up 10 points, threw pick on a drive to tie the game and then had a chance on a drive that stalled, and contributed to a blow out by the Chargers.

 

Are those games all on Cutler? No, but he didn't help his teams win either. In the 2 non-blowouts, his team averaged less than 280 typg. To put that in perspective, the 32nd ranked Raiders are averaging 282 this year. He had 1 TD in each game and the 4 ints. It's reminiscent of this year. People point to a defense, when the offense, of a team with an offensive identity, is doing nothing. The one common factor, Jay Cutler.

[Lucky Luciano]

So he lead an offense that put up 10 points, threw pick on a drive to tie the game and then had a chance on a drive that stalled, and contributed to a blow out by the Chargers.

 

Are those games all on Cutler? No, but he didn't help his teams win either. In the 2 non-blowouts, his team averaged less than 280 typg. To put that in perspective, the 32nd ranked Raiders are averaging 282 this year. He had 1 TD in each game and the 4 ints. It's reminiscent of this year. People point to a defense, when the offense, of a team with an offensive identity, is doing nothing. The one common factor, Jay Cutler.

 

well i don't agree with you but you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

i never watched those games. you must have. so what was the game plan by shanny? they had almost no running game involved. what was the blocking like? how much time did cutler have? how many dropped passes were there from running backs, receivers and tight ends? i can tell you this... the charger game was a blow out. the bronco's were beyond using a running game by half time. that leaves what? a passing attack by a SECOND YEAR quarterback.

 

that said, maybe cutler did have bad games, i just don't know without watching them. but if cutler looked horrible just what in the holy hell was jerry angelo and lovie smith looking at when they decided to give up 2 first round picks for him?

 

one point i want to make... with a defense as bad as denver's appeared to be, the time they are on the field takes away from your offense being on the field. same as here. if your offense is sitting on the bench watching the game it effects the outcome unless you have a fast scoring offense like the oilers under the moon man or a payton manning under center.

 

this holds true with nearly ANY qb under nearly any offense. if they can't get on the field they can't score. this may be some of trestman's problems. he has no faith our defense can stop anyone thus throwing our running game out the window and putting it all on a passing attack.

['TD']

that said, maybe cutler did have bad games, i just don't know without watching them. but if cutler looked horrible just what in the holy hell was jerry angelo and lovie smith looking at when they decided to give up 2 first round picks for him?

They were gambling on a 3yr QB with measurables, that could be developed. They gambled wrong. It paid off with one playoff appearance so far and a debate on whether he will develop still at the age of 31.

one point i want to make... with a defense as bad as denver's appeared to be, the time they are on the field takes away from your offense being on the field.

Also, when your offense is bad it takes away from itself being no the field. In Miami, Chicago only had 2 first down's in the first half and 18 plays.

 

Cutler just can't put points on the board. That year, the Bronco's were second in yards and only 16th with 23 ppg.

 

Here's a review of the points per game of Cutler lead teams.

 

2007 Broncos 20.0 (21st)

2008 Broncos 23.1 (16th)

2009 Bears 20.4 (23rd)

2010 Bears 20.9 (30th)

2011 Bears 22.1 (24th)

2012 Bears 23.4 (16th)

2013 Bears 27.8* (2nd)

2014 Bears 22.4 (17th)

[Chitownhustla]

They were gambling on a 3yr QB with measurables, that could be developed. They gambled wrong. It paid off with one playoff appearance so far and a debate on whether he will develop still at the age of 31.

 

Also, when your offense is bad it takes away from itself being no the field. In Miami, Chicago only had 2 first down's in the first half and 18 plays.

 

Cutler just can't put points on the board. That year, the Bronco's were second in yards and only 16th with 23 ppg.

 

Here's a review of the points per game of Cutler lead teams.

 

2007 Broncos 20.0 (21st)

2008 Broncos 23.1 (16th)

2009 Bears 20.4 (23rd)

2010 Bears 20.9 (30th)

2011 Bears 22.1 (24th)

2012 Bears 23.4 (16th)

2013 Bears 27.8* (2nd)

2014 Bears 22.4 (17th)

 

 

 

They gambled on a pro bowl 26 year old QB.... Then gave him Hester as his number 1. And martz and tice as his OC with shit oline..... Manning Brady and Rodgers wouldn't have had done very well in those offenses.

 

 

 

 

['TD']

They gambled on a pro bowl 26 year old QB.... Then gave him Hester as his number 1. And martz and tice as his OC with shit oline..... Manning Brady and Rodgers wouldn't have had done very well in those offenses.

They would have won a Super Bowl with the defenses that were wasted on Cutler.

[Chitownhustla]

They would have won a Super Bowl with the defenses that were wasted on Cutler.

 

 

Just like in 05/06.... Had a good line, two good running backs.... Great defense and couldn't win the Super Bowl.

 

 

['TD']

Just like in 05/06.... Had a good line, two good running backs.... Great defense and couldn't win the Super Bowl.

Are you saying Grossman is as good as Manning, Brady, and Rodgers?

[Chitownhustla]

Are you saying Grossman is as good as Manning, Brady, and Rodgers?

 

 

Hahahahaha!!!!

 

Grossman would not have done dick with those offenses. If manning Brady and Rodgers would not have seen much success than any idiot could see What Grossman would have done.

 

 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

if i thought your opinion was in any way knowledgeable or worth a tinkers dam on any subject relating to professional football i would respond. as it is?

 

so it goes.

 

Ouch good one.