Poll for #7 Pick

[adam]

We are on the clock at #7, these are the players on the board, with no trade partners, who is your pick?

[scs787]

I went with Danny Shelton. Getting a guy like him on that front 3 will make the linebackers job much easier.

 

Grab your OLB in the 2R where there will still more than likely be a few guys left.

[Stinger226]

I went with Danny Shelton. Getting a guy like him on that front 3 will make the linebackers job much easier.

 

Grab your OLB in the 2R where there will still more than likely be a few guys left.

The most important position in a 3-4 is outside rush backer, Shane Ray

[scs787]

The most important position in a 3-4 is outside rush backer, Shane Ray

 

Certainly not saying you're wrong, but a nose tackle is arguably just as important if not more.

 

Maybe not NT specifically, but you need someone on the line that demands a double team. San Fran had Justin Smith who consistently demands a double team. We dont have that Justin Smith, JJ Watt, or big bad NT.

 

I think a guy like Shelton would make a guy like Golden or Kikaha in the 2R really good.

 

 

But this is all arbitrary so we're all entitled to our opinions.

[Stinger226]

Certainly not saying you're wrong, but a nose tackle is arguably just as important if not more.

 

Maybe not NT specifically, but you need someone on the line that demands a double team. San Fran had Justin Smith who consistently demands a double team. We dont have that Justin Smith, JJ Watt, or big bad NT.

 

I think a guy like Shelton would make a guy like Golden or Kikaha in the 2R really good.

 

 

But this is all arbitrary so we're all entitled to our opinions.

So who is the best player on GBs defense? Its Mathews not the nose tackle. You can get a fat guy in another round that will fill the spot but will not find the OLB except in the first round.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

We are on the clock at #7, these are the players on the board, with no trade partners, who is your pick?

Knocking that list down to 5: Ray, Beasley, Shelton, Scherff, and Peat. Wildcard OT Flowers from Miami gets the "other".

 

I think Pace and Fox will retool the defense. Pace made sure to sell that in his opening presser to the fans. I have a handful of OTs listed because if Ray goes before #7 and we cannot trade down, we take Shelton or the best OT. If they pass on Shelton, they may see talent and opportunity to get a similiar player in RD2. Carl Davis, Malcom Brown, or Ellis McCarthy are all possibilities.

How I see it:

Rd1 -Shane Ray OLB Mizz

Rd2-Derron Smith FS Fresno St

Rd3-Ellis McCarthy NT UCLA

Rd4-Jake Ryan ILB Mich

 

[scs787]

So who is the best player on GBs defense? Its Mathews not the nose tackle. You can get a fat guy in another round that will fill the spot but will not find the OLB except in the first round.

 

I get your point, but Green Bay hasn't had a top 10 D in 4 year so ya. When they were good they had Raji opening things up for guys like Matthews.

 

Also GB moved Matthews to ILB last year because they couldn't stop the run without Raji.

 

I'm not saying I'm against Ray whatsoever, I just think Shelton is a legit difference maker who will make everyones job easier.

 

I disagree that you couldn't find an OLB in the 2nd. I loves me some Kikaha and think he's gonna be just as good if not better than Ray. Ray at this point like AZ said in another thread is pretty much a one trick pony. Now that one trick, his speed, is damn impressive, but can be neutralized, esp if there's no one that demands a double team and they can throw added attentiion his way. What iI like about Kikaha is his hand use which comes from his martial arts background. Justin Houston, the nfls leader in sacks also credits a lot of his success from working on martial arts techniques.

 

 

All that being said neither guy Ray or Shelton or really any of the defensive guys on the list would be the wrong choice.

[Stinger226]

I get your point, but Green Bay hasn't had a top 10 D in 4 year so ya. When they were good they had Raji opening things up for guys like Matthews.

 

Also GB moved Matthews to ILB last year because they couldn't stop the run without Raji.

 

I'm not saying I'm against Ray whatsoever, I just think Shelton is a legit difference maker who will make everyones job easier.

 

I disagree that you couldn't find an OLB in the 2nd. I loves me some Kikaha and think he's gonna be just as good if not better than Ray. Ray at this point like AZ said in another thread is pretty much a one trick pony. Now that one trick, his speed, is damn impressive, but can be neutralized, esp if there's no one that demands a double team and they can throw added attentiion his way. What iI like about Kikaha is his hand use which comes from his martial arts background. Justin Houston, the nfls leader in sacks also credits a lot of his success from working on martial arts techniques.

 

 

All that being said neither guy Ray or Shelton or really any of the defensive guys on the list would be the wrong choice.

ok hot shot, your going to pass a potential 15 sack year guy for a line eater? misguided

[bear trap]

ok hot shot, your going to pass a potential 15 sack year guy for a line eater? misguided

Stinger, let me ask you this...if you could go back to 2004, who would you draft between these two...?

Jason babin or vince wilfork

[scs787]

ok hot shot, your going to pass a potential 15 sack year guy for a line eater? misguided

 

Shelton is much more than just a line eater. Guys like Vince Wilfork, Haloti Ngata, and Dontari Poe are HUGE parts of their respective defenses. Those are guys Shelton gets compared to.

 

Having a guy who can beat double teams is huge. It makes everyone on the front 7 better.

 

Where's mongo with his it all starts up front sig

 

I will also say that I think Ray is a little overrated. That killer first step is nice going up against college teams but its gonna be neutralized at the next level. He'll be good but I don't think he'll be a double digit sack guy.

[adam]

There really is no wrong answer, but the only player on the list I would pass on would be Parker.

 

As a secondary question, if Winston or Mariota drop to #7, would you pick either of them?

[AZ54]

Right now from what I've seen in highlights it's between Shelton and Shane Ray. Edge pressure is harder to get versus finding a guy who can command a double team at NT so I'm taking Ray. I was searching the web for some more feedback on Ray and came across this from Bucky Brooks. He's not saying anything different from what most here think but at the end he compares him to Junior Galette of the Saints. So once again we have to consider Saints draft history and how that relates to our new GM evaluating players. Size wise they are similar but Galette ran a 4.86 forty, Ray supposedly will run 4.5-4.6.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap300...rison-Shane-Ray

 

Some of what I've seen from Scherff makes me wonder if he'll handle elite speed off the edge in the NFL.

 

Why isn't Leonard Williams on this list? He's a top 5 player on any list I look at and we have zero difference makers on our defense right now. I have no reason to think to our new GM, who says he goes BPA, will be swayed by the fact we drafted two DTs last year. I don't think it matters if we're in 4-3 or 3-4 this guy can play. He's young yet people talk about him being a perennial Pro Bowl player. Or is the assumption that he'll be gone no matter what?

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/big-board

1. Leonard Williams, DT, 6-4, 290, Jr., Southern California: Strong, athletic and passionate, the Trojans star is earning comparisons to everyone from Houston Texans defensive end J.J. Watt to Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive tackle Gerald McCoy for his ability to dominate the line of scrimmage while alternating between defensive tackle and defensive end. He's too quick for guards and too strong for tackles, wreaking havoc along the line of scrimmage against the run and pass.

 

 

 

[adam]

AZ,

Yeah I didn't list players that were off the board on majority of the mocks. I left Mariota, Winston, Williams, Gregory, and Cooper off the board.

[Stinger226]

Stinger, let me ask you this...if you could go back to 2004, who would you draft between these two...?

Jason babin or vince wilfork

 

GRADE

6.32

?

6'2"

HEIGHT

339LBS.

WEIGHT

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS Bends well for a big man and has ability to play with leverage. Space-eater who is able to maintain good positioning against double teams. Consistently gets his hands inside offensive linemen first. Controls, sees it and sheds to make tackles. Surprising ability to swat cut blocks and chase stretch plays laterally. Played a high percentage of Washington's defensive snaps. Has the strength and athleticism to dominate in the running game.

WEAKNESSES Despite girth and leverage potential, can be a little inconsistent at getting push off snap. Dominates lesser centers but doesn't seem to look nearly as dominant against more talented centers. Will quit on a play when he's blocked. Produced eye-catching sack numbers for his position in 2014, but much of it was against lesser competition. Must work to keep weight in check.

NFL COMPARISON Alameda Ta'amu

BOTTOM LINE With his thick frame and powerful upper body, Shelton has moments where he can dominate at the point of attack. He was forced to chase sideline to sideline due to the nature of Pac-12 offenses, but when he faced downhill competition like Stanford, he stepped up. Shelton is an above average interior pass rusher for a man his size thanks to his surprising athleticism. He is a fit in a two-gap scheme and could benefit from playing fewer snaps than he was forced to play at Washington.

 

GRADE

7.06

?

6'3"

HEIGHT

245LBS.

WEIGHT

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS Explosive athlete in every sense. Has elite power for his size and explodes off the line like a coiled spring. Rushes passer with extreme passion and purpose. Has fast, violent hands with advanced understanding of how to use them. Tough and plays with bad intentions on each snap. Uses rip to get under linemen and out-leverage them. Played 4-3 defensive right end in base but rushed from three-technique in some sub-packages. Once he gets to blocker's edge, they struggle to recover and redirect. Rare ability to post inside leg and get his body turned sharply and quickly around it toward quarterback. Excellent change-of-direction talent. Has natural coordination of head fakes, footwork and hand usage in pass rush. Works hard to stand his ground against power. Has power in upper body and hips to punch and dispatch with tight ends against run. Rarely runs past the arc as a rusher and will fight to come back underneath if he gets on the high side. Was able to drop into space with no issues when asked.

WEAKNESSES Lacks ideal length as an outside rusher. At times was engulfed and glued to the bigger tackles he faced. Can get too focused on hand fighting if he doesn't win with hands early in pass rush. Will occasionally stunt himself out of a play, opening up running lane. If rushing from inside, must learn to set up teammates when running "T/E" (tackle first, end under) twists. Relies on arm-over inside and slap/rip outside -- needs more variety to pass rush.

NFL COMPARISON Chris Clemons

BOTTOM LINE It's hard to find many weaknesses for Ray. He pursues the quarterback and the ball like it's his last snap. An alpha male packaged in an explosive frame, Ray has the traits and skills to be a dominant pass rusher and potential Pro Bowler. He also has the athleticism and strength to play in any defensive front.

 

Here is one NFL persons view of both prospects. Neither one is a sure thing, but Ray has more upside for being a potential all pro type.

We could use different names for different examples to make our point but we need to look at what is our choice in front of us. Either one will turn out good players but at 7, I am looking for the star player of which I think Ray will be.

[Stinger226]

Right now from what I've seen in highlights it's between Shelton and Shane Ray. Edge pressure is harder to get versus finding a guy who can command a double team at NT so I'm taking Ray. I was searching the web for some more feedback on Ray and came across this from Bucky Brooks. He's not saying anything different from what most here think but at the end he compares him to Junior Galette of the Saints. So once again we have to consider Saints draft history and how that relates to our new GM evaluating players. Size wise they are similar but Galette ran a 4.86 forty, Ray supposedly will run 4.5-4.6.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/0ap300...rison-Shane-Ray

 

Some of what I've seen from Scherff makes me wonder if he'll handle elite speed off the edge in the NFL.

 

Why isn't Leonard Williams on this list? He's a top 5 player on any list I look at and we have zero difference makers on our defense right now. I have no reason to think to our new GM, who says he goes BPA, will be swayed by the fact we drafted two DTs last year. I don't think it matters if we're in 4-3 or 3-4 this guy can play. He's young yet people talk about him being a perennial Pro Bowl player. Or is the assumption that he'll be gone no matter what?

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/big-board

1. Leonard Williams, DT, 6-4, 290, Jr., Southern California: Strong, athletic and passionate, the Trojans star is earning comparisons to everyone from Houston Texans defensive end J.J. Watt to Tampa Bay Buccaneers defensive tackle Gerald McCoy for his ability to dominate the line of scrimmage while alternating between defensive tackle and defensive end. He's too quick for guards and too strong for tackles, wreaking havoc along the line of scrimmage against the run and pass.

Williams and Gregory will be long gone by our pick,thats to bad they will be studs.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I get your point, but Green Bay hasn't had a top 10 D in 4 year so ya. When they were good they had Raji opening things up for guys like Matthews.

 

Also GB moved Matthews to ILB last year because they couldn't stop the run without Raji.

 

I'm not saying I'm against Ray whatsoever, I just think Shelton is a legit difference maker who will make everyones job easier.

 

I disagree that you couldn't find an OLB in the 2nd. I loves me some Kikaha and think he's gonna be just as good if not better than Ray. Ray at this point like AZ said in another thread is pretty much a one trick pony. Now that one trick, his speed, is damn impressive, but can be neutralized, esp if there's no one that demands a double team and they can throw added attentiion his way. What iI like about Kikaha is his hand use which comes from his martial arts background. Justin Houston, the nfls leader in sacks also credits a lot of his success from working on martial arts techniques.

 

 

All that being said neither guy Ray or Shelton or really any of the defensive guys on the list would be the wrong choice.

You know I like Shelton about as much as I liked Donald last year. I would be happy either way the draft falls. Here are some scenarios.

A.

1 Shelton DT

2. Kikaha OLB

3. Drummond/Pruitt FS

A.2

1. Shelton DT

2. Smith/Holliman FS

3. Trey Flowers OLB

B.1

1. Ray OLB

2. Jordan Phillips/Malcom Brown/Carl Davis DT

3. Drummond/Pruitt FS

B.2

1. Ray OLB

2. Smith/Holliman FS

3. McCarthy DT

C.for Crazy, but the offense could get it over the hump, buy D time

1. Scherff/Peat/Flowers OT

2. Gurley RB doubt he falls

3. McCarthy DT

[adam]

Right now Ray has the lead, with Shelton second. I would honestly be happy with either.

[Bears4Ever_34]

I like Fowler because he's big and athletic compared to Ray, who's smaller and more compact. I like arm length and Fowler certainly has that.

[killakrzydav]

Have you looked at Fowlers productivity?

[killakrzydav]

Ok, I'm not going to be too much of an ass, but Fowler blows. I've watched 30 plus games of him. Season ticket holder and travel to many away games. He is consistently a step late to the QB. 3 total sack this year. One outlier game tackles wise. Other than that, about 4 a game. Bottom line is he doesn't change a game. Is this what you want from the number seven pick?

 

[killakrzydav]

I want Cooper at this point. I'm not sold on Ray, and although Shelton could be a safe pick, I want a difference maker.

[Stinger226]

I want Cooper at this point. I'm not sold on Ray, and although Shelton could be a safe pick, I want a difference maker.

He wont make it to 7 for the same reason you want him, a stud

[killakrzydav]

I think he will go six too unfortunately.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I think he will go six too unfortunately.

That will be fine, WR shouldn't be on a need list but he does make a BPA list.

I like your inside thought on Fowler. Ive read reports he is lazy or has the physical traits to be great but his effort lacks. That is one reason I like Ray, effort is non stop. Shelton, Ray, or best OT is my big board.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Ok, I'm not going to be too much of an ass, but Fowler blows. I've watched 30 plus games of him. Season ticket holder and travel to many away games. He is consistently a step late to the QB. 3 total sack this year. One outlier game tackles wise. Other than that, about 4 a game. Bottom line is he doesn't change a game. Is this what you want from the number seven pick?

Admittedly I'm not much of a college sports fan, so I don't watch a lot of these guys play every Saturday. From what I've read about Fowler, a lot of his negatives are coachable. He has the skill set to be a force. I trust these Bears coaches now for the first time in a long time, especially Fangio. If he likes Fowler, I'm all for it.

 

The real target should be Gregory IMO, but he is probably long gone before #7.