ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I cannot wait for the day that we no longer hear about these two. Every time the Bears are brought up, it is the same old same old. Just end it already, cut the ties. Use all the cap space to pay for their dead money and let's play for a #1 overall pick next season. Two drafts in a row with top 7 picks should set us up nicely and ARod will be two years older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I have been thinking Bout the future without those two. What could the Bears realistically get in trade for them? A second and third? Better? What if they were traded and the Bears turned this into the Emmitt Smith trade? Absolutely load up, use this as the springboard for future success? Trade back from 7, pick up a late first and a second? That would be 4 picks in the first two round, and 6 in three rounds. If The new management wanted to put their stamp on things, that would do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I have been thinking Bout the future without those two. What could the Bears realistically get in trade for them? A second and third? Better? What if they were traded and the Bears turned this into the Emmitt Smith trade? Absolutely load up, use this as the springboard for future success? Trade back from 7, pick up a late first and a second? That would be 4 picks in the first two round, and 6 in three rounds. If The new management wanted to put their stamp on things, that would do it. I don't know that's such a great idea. When you hear folks talk about the team most all will agree that the offense is 'loaded with talent'. I'll confess to some degree that does include Cutler. Especially when you consider a) his contract b ) other potential FA QB's c) the draft class this year for QB and d) his contract. Essentially what you suggest could mean the team would need to 're-build' its offense along with its defense. Most will agree that this year the team needs to focus more on fixing the defense. Especially now that they look to be going to a new scheme. I don't see how taking two of the primary cogs (if you will) away from the offense will help in accomplishing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I could really care less about what the media talks about, really no one should. I HIGHLY doubt we "Tank". You don't bring in the coaching staff they brought in to lose. They have the money to put players out there to try and compete and I'm sure that's the goal. The only cut I wanna possibly see is Matt Forte. This draft class is stacked with RBs, Forte is at the age where he's soon gonna hit a wall, and it frees up 8 mill. Do work in FA, draft another stud for the D in the first then draft Coleman, Yeldon, or Abdullah in the 2nd...Or quite possibly wait till the 3rd and grab Duke Johnson or Jay Ajayi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 19, 2015 Report Share Posted February 19, 2015 I have been thinking Bout the future without those two. What could the Bears realistically get in trade for them? A second and third? Better? What if they were traded and the Bears turned this into the Emmitt Smith trade? Absolutely load up, use this as the springboard for future success? Trade back from 7, pick up a late first and a second? That would be 4 picks in the first two round, and 6 in three rounds. If The new management wanted to put their stamp on things, that would do it. I want the Bears to stockpile picks. I don't care about a top 7 pick with this many needs. I want to accumulate as many picks as we can in the first 3 rounds, preferably in the first two rounds. I follow the old Jimmy Johnson and current Beliceck school of drafting. I think if we could clear cap space all while getting some draft picks for Cutler / Marshall, than I am open. We have serious needs and need to reconstruct and entire defense under a new scheme and potentially target a young QB (if we do in fact move Cutler...either way we should be targeting that QB). I still think we could get a 1st round pick for Jay (maybe a 2nd round pick). For Marshall, I see less trade value, but you never know. If we were able to get a 1st for Jay, than I'd take my 7 pick and move down some more (for another 1st and another 2nd and you'd be talking 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders). You might even be able to leverage and move for more. This is a deep draft and in most cases the positions we are focused on aren't necessarily full of elite players at the spot. I am a draft BPA guy but you can do that while accomplishing your needs by moving down in the draft, etc, and than still grabbing the BPA you have at that point. Given the depth at LB / Dline in this draft (supposedly) along with RB and WR, I think we'd be in a good position to stockpile. I do know that CB / Safety are thin though (but I expect us to target safety in FA) and we could technically make a splash LB move in FA as well. I also think by stockpiling picks, we can make an early pick on a QB (if we like a Nick Hundley or someone else) and even consider taking another back and consider moving Forte (if we are looking more "long") and go with a young 2 back set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradjock Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I want the Bears to stockpile picks. I don't care about a top 7 pick with this many needs. I want to accumulate as many picks as we can in the first 3 rounds, preferably in the first two rounds. I follow the old Jimmy Johnson and current Beliceck school of drafting. I think if we could clear cap space all while getting some draft picks for Cutler / Marshall, than I am open. We have serious needs and need to reconstruct and entire defense under a new scheme and potentially target a young QB (if we do in fact move Cutler...either way we should be targeting that QB). I still think we could get a 1st round pick for Jay (maybe a 2nd round pick). For Marshall, I see less trade value, but you never know. If we were able to get a 1st for Jay, than I'd take my 7 pick and move down some more (for another 1st and another 2nd and you'd be talking 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders). You might even be able to leverage and move for more. This is a deep draft and in most cases the positions we are focused on aren't necessarily full of elite players at the spot. I am a draft BPA guy but you can do that while accomplishing your needs by moving down in the draft, etc, and than still grabbing the BPA you have at that point. Given the depth at LB / Dline in this draft (supposedly) along with RB and WR, I think we'd be in a good position to stockpile. I do know that CB / Safety are thin though (but I expect us to target safety in FA) and we could technically make a splash LB move in FA as well. I also think by stockpiling picks, we can make an early pick on a QB (if we like a Nick Hundley or someone else) and even consider taking another back and consider moving Forte (if we are looking more "long") and go with a young 2 back set. Show me a team that has recently stock-piled picks and had success. I think of St. Louis, Jacksonville, Oakland, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Minnesota . . . lots of really good picks. Lots of bad teams. Jimmy Johnson believed in that philosophy but eventually ran out of top end players. The Bill Belichick Tom Brady situation is unique. Aaron Rogers seems to make every offensive pick the Packers make look real damn good. Winston and Mariotti are likely going to go 1 and 2. To get one of those guys, we'll likely have to give up next year's #1. Are they worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Show me a team that has recently stock-piled picks and had success. I think of St. Louis, Jacksonville, Oakland, Cleveland, Jacksonville, Minnesota . . . lots of really good picks. Lots of bad teams. Jimmy Johnson believed in that philosophy but eventually ran out of top end players. The Bill Belichick Tom Brady situation is unique. Aaron Rogers seems to make every offensive pick the Packers make look real damn good. Winston and Mariotti are likely going to go 1 and 2. To get one of those guys, we'll likely have to give up next year's #1. Are they worth it? Notice a trend with some of those teams...really bad QB's. Hard to say on some of the teams you are referring to because they haven't done it consistently over a proven period of time and they also have had other major issues (including issues of stability from the coaching ranks, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hub and Bleacher Report indicating that veteran Bears players are leaking info that they "wouldn't be upset if Marshall was cut". I would be very surprised if Brandon is around next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'TD' Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hub has been on the get rid of Marshall train since day one. He and Bernstien have been leading the march. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Hub has been on the get rid of Marshall train since day one. He and Bernstien have been leading the march. Everytime I turn on the damn radio it's whiney radio guys crying about the Bears are better off to throw the season away. Those two are not in the long term plans. I would be pissed if I was a season ticket holder and the plan was to throw the season away. Great coaches bring the best out of their players. If they cannot do so, they then cut them. They havent even had a practice, let alone a sit down together. This whole term "non-committed" to them is non sense. They havent committed to any player, yet them not saying those words has a meaning. I would like to see them try bring the best out of these guys while also implementing a plan for a future without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boston Boxer Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I could really care less about what the media talks about, really no one should. I HIGHLY doubt we "Tank". You don't bring in the coaching staff they brought in to lose. They have the money to put players out there to try and compete and I'm sure that's the goal. The only cut I wanna possibly see is Matt Forte. This draft class is stacked with RBs, Forte is at the age where he's soon gonna hit a wall, and it frees up 8 mill. Do work in FA, draft another stud for the D in the first then draft Coleman, Yeldon, or Abdullah in the 2nd...Or quite possibly wait till the 3rd and grab Duke Johnson or Jay Ajayi. great post. Forte is good but his money can be used elsewhere...and like you said, there are RBs in the draft that can come in and produce IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 So that person who scooped the Bears hiring of Fox & Pace has indicated that it will be extremely unlikely that Cutler / Marshall will be on the same team next year. Person believes Jay will stay (although indicates Bears are shopping him to see what kind of value)...doesn't believe Marshall has much value on trade front but doesn't think Marshall and Cutler together is a good thing (not sure if they aren't as tight after Marshall called Jay out and how things went down late last year or if this is more of people thinking Jay might be a better player and more likely to spread the ball around if Marshall is somewhere else). TIFWIW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 So that person who scooped the Bears hiring of Fox & Pace has indicated that it will be extremely unlikely that Cutler / Marshall will be on the same team next year. Person believes Jay will stay (although indicates Bears are shopping him to see what kind of value)...doesn't believe Marshall has much value on trade front but doesn't think Marshall and Cutler together is a good thing (not sure if they aren't as tight after Marshall called Jay out and how things went down late last year or if this is more of people thinking Jay might be a better player and more likely to spread the ball around if Marshall is somewhere else). TIFWIW. QFT. Thanks for the info. I can see them making that decision just based on locker room harmony and cohesion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 I want the Bears to stockpile picks. I don't care about a top 7 pick with this many needs. I want to accumulate as many picks as we can in the first 3 rounds, preferably in the first two rounds. I follow the old Jimmy Johnson and current Beliceck school of drafting. I think if we could clear cap space all while getting some draft picks for Cutler / Marshall, than I am open. We have serious needs and need to reconstruct and entire defense under a new scheme and potentially target a young QB (if we do in fact move Cutler...either way we should be targeting that QB). I still think we could get a 1st round pick for Jay (maybe a 2nd round pick). For Marshall, I see less trade value, but you never know. If we were able to get a 1st for Jay, than I'd take my 7 pick and move down some more (for another 1st and another 2nd and you'd be talking 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders). You might even be able to leverage and move for more. This is a deep draft and in most cases the positions we are focused on aren't necessarily full of elite players at the spot. I am a draft BPA guy but you can do that while accomplishing your needs by moving down in the draft, etc, and than still grabbing the BPA you have at that point. Given the depth at LB / Dline in this draft (supposedly) along with RB and WR, I think we'd be in a good position to stockpile. I do know that CB / Safety are thin though (but I expect us to target safety in FA) and we could technically make a splash LB move in FA as well. I also think by stockpiling picks, we can make an early pick on a QB (if we like a Nick Hundley or someone else) and even consider taking another back and consider moving Forte (if we are looking more "long") and go with a young 2 back set. Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Let's say we get a 1st for Cutler, a 2nd for Marshall, and a3rd for Forte. I don't know if that is realistic, but it seems about right to get that for that geoup of guys. Then a trade back for a 1 & 2. Yikes. Tons of potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted February 20, 2015 Report Share Posted February 20, 2015 Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. Let's say we get a 1st for Cutler, a 2nd for Marshall, and a3rd for Forte. I don't know if that is realistic, but it seems about right to get that for that geoup of guys. Then a trade back for a 1 & 2. Yikes. Tons of potential. This of course considering the team is "rebuilding" which I wholeheartedly disagree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 This of course considering the team is "rebuilding" which I wholeheartedly disagree with. There is no way this is a quick fix, its going to take 3 years to get to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 There is no way this is a quick fix, its going to take 3 years to get to the playoffs. Teams do it all the time, though I am just hoping for an improved competitive team, even if that ends up with us at 7-9 or 8-8. The schedule this year does not bode well for us. However, I see us winning 10+ in 2016, just based on the schedule alone. We get the NFC East and AFC South, and the team that finishes in the same position from the NFC West and South. That is a much lighter schedule, and it will be the 2nd year of the new regime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 I think were a ten win team too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 21, 2015 Report Share Posted February 21, 2015 Teams do it all the time, though I am just hoping for an improved competitive team, even if that ends up with us at 7-9 or 8-8. The schedule this year does not bode well for us. However, I see us winning 10+ in 2016, just based on the schedule alone. We get the NFC East and AFC South, and the team that finishes in the same position from the NFC West and South. That is a much lighter schedule, and it will be the 2nd year of the new regime. The poor drafting over the last several years and marginal free agents , plus were an old team. I think we dont tank but think of more to the future than trying to become a 8-8 team. For us to compete for a playoff berth we would have to hit on every draft pick and every free agent signing. Also our roster has to have gems, we havent seen thru the fog that went on last year. I would love to win the SB next year, but struggling between reality of the roster and being optimistic. I just think that is to much to ask for a team to turn around in one year and be competitive for years to come.Other teams have did it but they did it with prime players in place and tweaked the roster. Name me the players we have for building blocks? Here is what I see: Long-our future LT Jeffery- our future #2 Fuller- I think he thrives as a press corner maybe Jones at ILB but that is a stretch at this point maybe Ferguson as NT-stretch maybe Young at OLB- position change and coming off injury maybe Houston as DE-didnt do it last year and would change scheme TOO MANY HOLES TO FILL TO BE GOOD NEXT YEAR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 The poor drafting over the last several years and marginal free agents , plus were an old team. I think we dont tank but think of more to the future than trying to become a 8-8 team. For us to compete for a playoff berth we would have to hit on every draft pick and every free agent signing. Also our roster has to have gems, we havent seen thru the fog that went on last year. I would love to win the SB next year, but struggling between reality of the roster and being optimistic. I just think that is to much to ask for a team to turn around in one year and be competitive for years to come.Other teams have did it but they did it with prime players in place and tweaked the roster. Name me the players we have for building blocks? Here is what I see: Long-our future LT Jeffery- our future #2 Fuller- I think he thrives as a press corner maybe Jones at ILB but that is a stretch at this point maybe Ferguson as NT-stretch maybe Young at OLB- position change and coming off injury maybe Houston as DE-didnt do it last year and would change scheme TOO MANY HOLES TO FILL TO BE GOOD NEXT YEAR I would like to think that by subtracting Tucker, we will see a different unit we didn't know we had. These are legit nfl guys we have, they haven't had real leadership or coaching for the last two years. Don't be surprised if a rebound happens sooner. But it all depends on if they decide to dump JC, BM, and even MF. Dropping those 3 will make it a 2-3 window. If they keep them and they take to the new staff, I see a small chance this year fighting for a wildcard and being very competetive the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 22, 2015 Report Share Posted February 22, 2015 I would like to think that by subtracting Tucker, we will see a different unit we didn't know we had. These are legit nfl guys we have, they haven't had real leadership or coaching for the last two years. Don't be surprised if a rebound happens sooner. But it all depends on if they decide to dump JC, BM, and even MF. Dropping those 3 will make it a 2-3 window. If they keep them and they take to the new staff, I see a small chance this year fighting for a wildcard and being very competetive the following year. I would love to be in that think tank, I hope Im wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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