scs787 Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 With Shelton not looking good at the Combine, why not explore going after Terrence Knighton in FA and Justin Houston. Then we can truly draft the BPA and if that is a OL or CB or whatever then they are starting to add depth. A NT rotation of Knighton, Ratliff and Ferguson sounds nice since we are going to 3/4 which I hate. Then figuring the OLBs and 5 tech DEs Allen, Houston, Washington,Bass, Houston, Young ,McClellin,Bostic,Lattimore,and Sutton. I'm hoping for Knighton but he's been following Jack Del Rio around from the Jags and then Denver, so I kinda think that trend will continue and he goes to Oakland. Houston would be awesome but he probably gets franchised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I'm hoping for Knighton but he's been following Jack Del Rio around from the Jags and then Denver, so I kinda think that trend will continue and he goes to Oakland. Houston would be awesome but he probably gets franchised. So you noticed where I'm going.Most of the time the guys who are 3/4 DTs float around to different teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 So you noticed where I'm going.Most of the time the guys who are 3/4 DTs float around to different teams. I'm not sure I do notice. Knighton yes, but he's stuck with Del Rio. Most of the teams that have had good 3-4s have had that 1 guy that has been a constant force. Baltimore has had Ngata forever, GB has had Raji forever, Pats have ran a hybrid with Wilfork forever, before recently SF had Sopoaga for 8 years and also have Justin Smith who demands double teams, Arizona has had Darnell Dockett and Calias Cambell for awhile. Not a NT but the Texans have had Watt for a few years. When you have a guy like those guys you hold onto em. And if you don't have someone like those guys, you better go out and get one. Houston-Ratliff-Ego might be passable but it's gonna make the LBs job much harder because none of those guys really command a double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Think you may have missed the point here......Shelton had 98 tackles in one season. Those numbers you posted, along with Rajis numbers were amassed over 4 seasons. Sutton may or may not be a fit, Ratliff only has a year left on his contract, Paea probably gets paid for a career year and I'm not sure it should be by us, Houston is bit of a mystery as he was fairly decent in Oakland but totally blew last year so he could end up being a cut candidate. Ego should be a long term contributor, but after that there's no one you can really say that guy will no doubt be on the line come 2016. So i did. I saw that you opened with a four year comparison on Raji and missed the segue. At any rate id have to be suspicious of those numbers. Is Krazydaze onto something with the questionable sacks (if that was where his question was aimed)? And as lemon pointed out for a guy who lit it up last season, he sure didn't blow anyone away with his combine performance. Having 90 tackles in one season is pretty noteworthy, but I'd be more impressed if he averaged it over a two or more year span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 No I meant who he got the sacks against.... 8/30 @Hawaii W 17-16 12 8 4 2.0 9/6 Eastern Washington W 59-52 12 8 4 4.0 9/13 Illinois W 44-19 3 1 2 0.0 0 0 9/20 Georgia State W 45-14 13 9 4 1.0 0 9/27 Stanford L 20-13 6 4 2 0.0 0 0 10/11 @California W 31-7 2 1 1 0.0 10/18 @Oregon L 45-20 8 5 3 0.5 0 10/25 Arizona State L 24-10 8 3 5 0.0 11/1 @Colorado W 38-23 5 2 3 0.0 0 0 11/8 UCLA L 44-30 3 2 1 0.0 0 0 11/15 @Arizona L 27-26 9 7 2 1.0 0 11/22 Oregon State W 37-13 3 2 1 0.0 11/29 @Washington State W 31-13 4 0 4 0.5 Thats 4 sacks against a D2 school, 2 against Hawaii, and 1 against 1 & 13 Georgia State. My point is you can't just look at the stats and be like oh he was productive. Look deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Valid point, but if you watched him at the senior bowl, against the top talent in the nation you can tell dude is gonna be a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 I think he is talented and wouldn't hate him @ 7 but IDT he is Wilfork, Ngata, etc. He impressed me at the senior bowl and disappointed, somewhat, at the combine. I actually plan to spend some of my life look at each of these 9 for additional input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 So i did. I saw that you opened with a four year comparison on Raji and missed the segue. At any rate id have to be suspicious of those numbers. Is Krazydaze onto something with the questionable sacks (if that was where his question was aimed)? And as lemon pointed out for a guy who lit it up last season, he sure didn't blow anyone away with his combine performance. Having 90 tackles in one season is pretty noteworthy, but I'd be more impressed if he averaged it over a two or more year span. Thanks AG,last year I gushed over the DT at South Carolina named Quarles because I thought that alot of Clowneys production was based on the dirty work that this kid did inside during the games I watched. I'm starting to believe that the more hyped these Hybrid pass rushers are the more I think you should avoid them early in the draft. We thought Clowney and Watt would be a nightmare for coordinators but we still see Melvin Ingram struggling as well Quarles and Clowney. Can't remeber the CB from that same defense that is not a household name yet but I feel that the player who has had the most success recently from that program was Alshon and he had more question marks than anyone of those guys. My point about Shelton is stamina. Fangio is a rotational type of DC but expects his guys to go balls out while on the field. Thats not what Shelton showed this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 25, 2015 Report Share Posted February 25, 2015 Thanks AG,last year I gushed over the DT at South Carolina named Quarles because I thought that alot of Clowneys production was based on the dirty work that this kid did inside during the games I watched. I'm starting to believe that the more hyped these Hybrid pass rushers are the more I think you should avoid them early in the draft. We thought Clowney and Watt would be a nightmare for coordinators but we still see Melvin Ingram struggling as well Quarles and Clowney. Can't remeber the CB from that same defense that is not a household name yet but I feel that the player who has had the most success recently from that program was Alshon and he had more question marks than anyone of those guys. My point about Shelton is stamina. Fangio is a rotational type of DC but expects his guys to go balls out while on the field. Thats not what Shelton showed this weekend. Uhh, one of Sheltons pluses is his stamina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Uhh, one of Sheltons pluses is his stamina. Did you see that at the Combine? This is where it can be showcased for the world.Stamina aginst PAC 12 opponents is not the same as the NFL. You seem to be a numbers guy so are you ignoring the fact that he had a les than stellar workout when he had so much time to prepare for it? Shelton is not someone I want on this team and hope they pass on him AT 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Did you see that at the Combine? This is where it can be showcased for the world.Stamina aginst PAC 12 opponents is not the same as the NFL. You seem to be a numbers guy so are you ignoring the fact that he had a les than stellar workout when he had so much time to prepare for it? Shelton is not someone I want on this team and hope they pass on him AT 7. Stamina doenst nessesarily mean speed. Not just numbers, I watched him absolutely dominate at the senior bowl against the top prospects in the draft. I'd rather base my opinion on his senior bowl performance than his combine results, esp as a DT. A DT isn't gonna be running more than a few yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Stamina doenst nessesarily mean speed. Not just numbers, I watched him absolutely dominate at the senior bowl against the top prospects in the draft. I'd rather base my opinion on his senior bowl performance than his combine results, esp as a DT. A DT isn't gonna be running more than a few yards. Michael Haynes was the MVP of the Senior Bowl and what's he doing now? The Bears drafted him in the first and he never amounted to much. The SENIOR bowl excludes underclassmen who might be able to out shine some of those invitees. Also at the Senior Bowl is he going up against Dominick Raola or the other centers in the NFC North. When we project players for this team we have to think how they would fare against the competition they would face during the upcoming season. You are expecting this kid to come in and dominate seasoned NFL centers based on his performance at the Senior Bowl? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Michael Haynes was the MVP of the Senior Bowl and what's he doing now? The Bears drafted him in the first and he never amounted to much. The SENIOR bowl excludes underclassmen who might be able to out shine some of those invitees. Also at the Senior Bowl is he going up against Dominick Raola or the other centers in the NFC North. When we project players for this team we have to think how they would fare against the competition they would face during the upcoming season. You are expecting this kid to come in and dominate seasoned NFL centers based on his performance at the Senior Bowl? And his game tape as well. Have you watched him play at all or are you just basing your decision on the fact that a guy who's gonna have to run 5 yards top ran a bad 40? http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-senior-bowl/...p-Danny-Shelton http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000047...despite-40-time (note the talk of his 30.5 inch vertical, which is phenomenal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 And his game tape as well. Have you watched him play at all or are you just basing your decision on the fact that a guy who's gonna have to run 5 yards top ran a bad 40? http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-senior-bowl/...p-Danny-Shelton http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000047...despite-40-time (note the talk of his 30.5 inch vertical, which is phenomenal) Screw the game tape of Shelton check the numbers and the size of Fangio's NTs over his career at SF and tell me if Shelton is the prototype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 Screw the game tape of Shelton check the numbers and the size of Fangio's NTs over his career at SF and tell me if Shelton is the prototype. 2 of the 4 years he had 6'2" 321 pound Isaac Sopoaga as his starting NT. 6'2" 316 pound Glenn Doresy isnt ecaxtly a light weight either. This conversation is obviously pointless if you're gonna say screw the game tape. And even further pointless because I've moved on to wanting one of the OLBs (But not because I don't think Shelton isn't a stud). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 2 of the 4 years he had 6'2" 321 pound Isaac Sopoaga as his starting NT. 6'2" 316 pound Glenn Doresy isnt ecaxtly a light weight either. This conversation is obviously pointless if you're gonna say screw the game tape. And even further pointless because I've moved on to wanting one of the OLBs (But not because I don't think Shelton isn't a stud). Sc not trying to diss you! When I said screw the game tape its because of the fact I'm not to familiar with the 3/4 or what Fangio really does or the size of the guys he likes. You have to understand that a 3/4 is culture shock for those of us who think Bear defense and 4-3! Sopoaga and Dorsey are both much lighter than Shelton and the only person he should be compared to is Vince Wilfork and when was he drafted? Not at 7. When he was in the discussion for being drafted in the first round it was him and Tommie Harris and the 3 tech went 14 not 7. we currently sit at the 7th position in the 1st round and no matter how much you and I debate Shelton he is not worthy of the 7th pick of the draft no matter what you and I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted February 26, 2015 Report Share Posted February 26, 2015 My "beef" with you saying screw the tape is because I think it's silly to ignore, and that I'm under the impression you're making your decision based solely off his combine numbers, which again to me is silly. Wilforks stock was hurt due to "lackadaisical effort during his junior season". That's fine you don't think he's a top 10 pick, but I'll side with pretty much every expert out there and what my eyes tell me when watching tape, and say he's worthy of a top 10 pick. Also if you think Shelton is too big why is Knighton on you wish list? He was listed at 335 last season and reports are he was more than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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