dawhizz Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Obviously there's no way to know exactly how much say Fangio had in the drafts when he was in SF, but he had to have some say, right? So I figured I'd take a look at the defensive players they drafted. One big difference in looking at this is the fact that SF was already running a 3-4 when he got there and they already had Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman and Justin Smith (to name just a few). 2011 1 - Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri - 6'4" 263, 4.78 3 - Chris Culliver, CB, South Carolina - 6'1" 201. 4.40 6 - Colin Jones, S, TCU - 5'11" 200, 4.34 7 - Curtis Holcomb, CB, Florida A&M - 5'10" 184, 4.47 2012 5 - Darius Fleming, LB, Notre Dame - 6'2" 245, 4.77 5 - Trenton Robinson, S, Michigan State - 5'10" 195, 4.52 7 - Cam Johnson, DE, Virgina - 6'3" 268, 4.81 2013 1 - Eric Reid, S, LSU - 6'1" 213, 4.53 2 - Tank Carradine, DE, Florida State - 6'4" 276, 4.76 40 at pro day (torn ACL at end of season) 3 - Corey Lemonier, LB, Auburn - 6'3" 255, 4.60 5 - Quinton Dial, DL, Alabama - 6'5" 318, DNR 6 - Nick Moody, LB, Florida State - 6'1" 236 4.71 7 - Marcus Cooper, CB, Rutgers - 6'2" 192, 4.45 2014 1 - Jimmie Ward, S, Northern Illinois - 5'11" 193, 4.47 3 - Chris Borland, LB, Wisconsin - 5'11" 248, 4.83 4 - Dontae Johnson, CB, NC State - 6'2" 200, 4.45 5 - Aaron Lynch, LB, South Florida - 6'5" 249, 4.65 5 - Keith Reaser, CB, Florida Atlantic - 5'10" 189, torn ACL at end of year, but reported 4.32 pre-injury 6 - Kenneth Acker, CB, SMU - 6'0" 190, 4.50 7 - Kaleb Ramsey, DE, Boston College - 6'3" 293, NR My takeaways: - Speed is valued in the secondary overall - they never drafted a DB with a 40 time lower than 4.53, and that was Eric Reid. - Height is valued at CB. Of the six CBs drafted, four were 6'0" or above. - Speed is not a deal-breaker at LB, particularly if you have production. Borland and Smith were both relatively high picks despite fairly pedestrian 40 times. - Size is not needed (and maybe not even desired) at NT. Fangio inherited Isaac Sopoaga (who weighs 330), but he was let go after his contract ran out. Since then, he's used Ian Williams (305), Glenn Dorsey (297), Rickey-Jean Francois (297), and Quinton Dial (318) at NT. - There's more draft picks from major college programs than I would have thought. I count only three draft picks I would call "small schoolers". - I see a willingness to draft injured players who are devalued based on injury, although truthfully if you have a defense like SF's, you can afford that more than the Bears can this year. Some thoughts on the 2015 draft based on what I see: - At DT, this seems to suggest against the big Shelton, Phillips, Goldman types. Based on type, I would think Ego Ferguson would actually be a great fit at NT. If we draft one, I would expect it to be in the middle/late rounds and someone closer to 300 lbs with some run-stuff ability. Guys I think might qualify include Kaleb Eulls, Joey Mbu, David Parry, and Chucky Hunter. - Big CBs who ran 4.5 or lower 40s outside of the premium guys would include Josh Shaw, Eric Rowe, and Damian Swann. - The selection of Chris Borland makes me wonder if maybe the productive LBs who didn't run great like Paul Dawson and Denzel Perryman might be targets in the 2nd round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Excellent post. Interesting point on the NT position. The question I haven't seen answered in the media (maybe I missed it on the board) is with the smaller NTs does that mean Fangio runs more of a 1-gap 3-4 as opposed to the traditional 2-gap setup with bigger Dline players? He did say he'll have a 4-3 alignment about 60% of the time (passing defense) so that might also be why he doesn't value the 2-gap NT. I think your point about Borland is valid as it relates to Perryman and Dawson although I think both those guys will be available in the 3rd Rd and there's no reason not to grab a higher rated player in Rd 2. Dawson wasn't in shape at the combine and has a lot of character questions. I like Perryman to fit in our 3-4 alignment and he can come off the field when we go 4-3. Fangio had a Hall of Fame caliber player in the middle of that D. We don't. We all know how our D looked when Urlacher was on/off the field. That type of LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Obviously there's no way to know exactly how much say Fangio had in the drafts when he was in SF, but he had to have some say, right? So I figured I'd take a look at the defensive players they drafted. One big difference in looking at this is the fact that SF was already running a 3-4 when he got there and they already had Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman and Justin Smith (to name just a few). 2011 1 - Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri - 6'4" 263, 4.78 3 - Chris Culliver, CB, South Carolina - 6'1" 201. 4.40 6 - Colin Jones, S, TCU - 5'11" 200, 4.34 7 - Curtis Holcomb, CB, Florida A&M - 5'10" 184, 4.47 2012 5 - Darius Fleming, LB, Notre Dame - 6'2" 245, 4.77 5 - Trenton Robinson, S, Michigan State - 5'10" 195, 4.52 7 - Cam Johnson, DE, Virgina - 6'3" 268, 4.81 2013 1 - Eric Reid, S, LSU - 6'1" 213, 4.53 2 - Tank Carradine, DE, Florida State - 6'4" 276, 4.76 40 at pro day (torn ACL at end of season) 3 - Corey Lemonier, LB, Auburn - 6'3" 255, 4.60 5 - Quinton Dial, DL, Alabama - 6'5" 318, DNR 6 - Nick Moody, LB, Florida State - 6'1" 236 4.71 7 - Marcus Cooper, CB, Rutgers - 6'2" 192, 4.45 2014 1 - Jimmie Ward, S, Northern Illinois - 5'11" 193, 4.47 3 - Chris Borland, LB, Wisconsin - 5'11" 248, 4.83 4 - Dontae Johnson, CB, NC State - 6'2" 200, 4.45 5 - Aaron Lynch, LB, South Florida - 6'5" 249, 4.65 5 - Keith Reaser, CB, Florida Atlantic - 5'10" 189, torn ACL at end of year, but reported 4.32 pre-injury 6 - Kenneth Acker, CB, SMU - 6'0" 190, 4.50 7 - Kaleb Ramsey, DE, Boston College - 6'3" 293, NR My takeaways: - Speed is valued in the secondary overall - they never drafted a DB with a 40 time lower than 4.53, and that was Eric Reid. - Height is valued at CB. Of the six CBs drafted, four were 6'0" or above. - Speed is not a deal-breaker at LB, particularly if you have production. Borland and Smith were both relatively high picks despite fairly pedestrian 40 times. - Size is not needed (and maybe not even desired) at NT. Fangio inherited Isaac Sopoaga (who weighs 330), but he was let go after his contract ran out. Since then, he's used Ian Williams (305), Glenn Dorsey (297), Rickey-Jean Francois (297), and Quinton Dial (318) at NT. - There's more draft picks from major college programs than I would have thought. I count only three draft picks I would call "small schoolers". - I see a willingness to draft injured players who are devalued based on injury, although truthfully if you have a defense like SF's, you can afford that more than the Bears can this year. Some thoughts on the 2015 draft based on what I see: - At DT, this seems to suggest against the big Shelton, Phillips, Goldman types. Based on type, I would think Ego Ferguson would actually be a great fit at NT. If we draft one, I would expect it to be in the middle/late rounds and someone closer to 300 lbs with some run-stuff ability. Guys I think might qualify include Kaleb Eulls, Joey Mbu, David Parry, and Chucky Hunter. - Big CBs who ran 4.5 or lower 40s outside of the premium guys would include Josh Shaw, Eric Rowe, and Damian Swann. - The selection of Chris Borland makes me wonder if maybe the productive LBs who didn't run great like Paul Dawson and Denzel Perryman might be targets in the 2nd round. You did a very good job with this and I agree the NT position is not necessarily set for the big fat guy. I think with an aging Ratliff and Ferguson we have a two man rotation set with maybe a mid round selection that can play both DE/DT. I also think with little activity in FA past the first few days that we are now bargain shopping and will be bringing in several cheap adds and may rollover most of our cap to next year after we get a good evaluation of our roster. I think because Pace is going to build more with the draft that they attempt to trade down and grab more picks. I think, in no particular order that we grab several DT/DE types like a Davis in the second and a Harry Anderson in the fourth. Add a WR with the first couple of rounds. A CB that could play both CB and S positions , Josh Shaw or Eric Rowe. I think we add a OL prospect, could possible be with our first round pick. I think ILB is also a mid round pick we target. Byrce Hagler and Taiwan Jones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 Wow, that's a lot of draft choices added in the last 4 years.(21 picks) Add that to the studs they already had on the roster and they should have been a juggernaut. I'm really interested to see what SF looks like after losing a bunch of talent, because it looks like they should have replacements in the pipeline. Also interested to see how many of them stuck and are with other teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 I've thrown this line out there a few times, but IMO San Fran was able to go with smaller guys at NT because they had Justin Smith on their line demanding double teams. I think we've been looking at bigger guys like Shelton (We've visited him twice pre draft) because we need that guy who demands double teams. Unless Leonard Williams drops to us there's just no another guy who will come in right away and demand that sort of attention. The Bears need someone to command double teams or the whole 3-4 won't be that effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 21, 2015 Report Share Posted March 21, 2015 I've thrown this line out there a few times, but IMO San Fran was able to go with smaller guys at NT because they had Justin Smith on their line demanding double teams. I think we've been looking at bigger guys like Shelton (We've visited him twice pre draft) because we need that guy who demands double teams. Unless Leonard Williams drops to us there's just no another guy who will come in right away and demand that sort of attention. The Bears need someone to command double teams or the whole 3-4 won't be that effective. Yeah, if you look at all 3-4 teams around the league, at least the successful ones have that type of guy. Ratliff, Ferguson, and Sutton do not command that attention. For a drafting strategy, you have to look at Pace, Fox, Gase, and Fangio as a whole. Fangio will have input, but not as much as Pace or Fox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawhizz Posted March 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I wanted to revisit this post now that we have a year of the Bears draft under Fangio under our belts: Obviously there's no way to know exactly how much say Fangio had in the drafts when he was in SF, but he had to have some say, right? So I figured I'd take a look at the defensive players they drafted. One big difference in looking at this is the fact that SF was already running a 3-4 when he got there and they already had Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman and Justin Smith (to name just a few). 2011 1 - Aldon Smith, DE, Missouri - 6'4" 263, 4.78 3 - Chris Culliver, CB, South Carolina - 6'1" 201. 4.40 6 - Colin Jones, S, TCU - 5'11" 200, 4.34 7 - Curtis Holcomb, CB, Florida A&M - 5'10" 184, 4.47 2012 5 - Darius Fleming, LB, Notre Dame - 6'2" 245, 4.77 5 - Trenton Robinson, S, Michigan State - 5'10" 195, 4.52 7 - Cam Johnson, DE, Virgina - 6'3" 268, 4.81 2013 1 - Eric Reid, S, LSU - 6'1" 213, 4.53 2 - Tank Carradine, DE, Florida State - 6'4" 276, 4.76 40 at pro day (torn ACL at end of season) 3 - Corey Lemonier, LB, Auburn - 6'3" 255, 4.60 5 - Quinton Dial, DL, Alabama - 6'5" 318, DNR 6 - Nick Moody, LB, Florida State - 6'1" 236 4.71 7 - Marcus Cooper, CB, Rutgers - 6'2" 192, 4.45 2014 1 - Jimmie Ward, S, Northern Illinois - 5'11" 193, 4.47 3 - Chris Borland, LB, Wisconsin - 5'11" 248, 4.83 4 - Dontae Johnson, CB, NC State - 6'2" 200, 4.45 5 - Aaron Lynch, LB, South Florida - 6'5" 249, 4.65 5 - Keith Reaser, CB, Florida Atlantic - 5'10" 189, torn ACL at end of year, but reported 4.32 pre-injury 6 - Kenneth Acker, CB, SMU - 6'0" 190, 4.50 7 - Kaleb Ramsey, DE, Boston College - 6'3" 293, NR Now we have the 2015 draft as well (albeit only two picks of defense) 2 - Eddie Goldman, DT, Florida State - 6'4" 335, 5.27 5 - Adrian Amos, S, Penn State - 6'0" 218, 4.37 (at pro day) My takeaways: - Speed is valued in the secondary overall - they never drafted a DB with a 40 time lower than 4.53, and that was Eric Reid. - Still true. Amos ran a 4.56 at the combine, but a 4.37 and 4.40 at his pro day. - Height is valued at CB. Of the six CBs drafted, four were 6'0" or above. Also still true. Amos makes the cut at 6'0". - Speed is not a deal-breaker at LB, particularly if you have production. Borland and Smith were both relatively high picks despite fairly pedestrian 40 times. - Size is not needed (and maybe not even desired) at NT. Fangio inherited Isaac Sopoaga (who weighs 330), but he was let go after his contract ran out. Since then, he's used Ian Williams (305), Glenn Dorsey (297), Rickey-Jean Francois (297), and Quinton Dial (318) at NT. Ended up not being the case, as they took Goldman. - There's more draft picks from major college programs than I would have thought. I count only three draft picks I would call "small schoolers". - I see a willingness to draft injured players who are devalued based on injury, although truthfully if you have a defense like SF's, you can afford that more than the Bears can this year. On second thought, not sure this reflects at all on Fangio and seems more like an organizational approach (see Marcus Lattimore, Brandon Thomas, etc.). Both draft picks were from major college programs though, for what it's worth. Some other thoughts looking at this with fresh eyes: - One other thing I noticed taking the 2015 draft into account is that a lot of the DBs drafted for a Fangio defense had CB and S experience. Amos played some slot corner, as did Jimmie Ward. Culliver and Dontae Johnson started out as a safeties in college. Trenton Robinson was seen as a possible NFL CB. The guy I keep thinking fits this to a T is Sean Davis from Maryland. 6'1" 201. Played S until his last year when he moved to CB. Ran a 4.46 at the combine. Something to think about. - The 49ers spent lots of picks on pass-rushers, and fairly early: Smith, Fleming, Carradine, Lemonier & Lynch were all seen as pass-rush specialists. The Bears haven't drafted one under Fangio, but also don't have a young pass rusher on the roster. I have to believe that's a high priotity and wonder if it might even put Lawson/Spence/Ogbah/Dodd in play in the 1st/2nd - someone the Bears could envision as a 10 sack a year guy, which they don't currently have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I wanted to revisit this post now that we have a year of the Bears draft under Fangio under our belts: Now we have the 2015 draft as well (albeit only two picks of defense) 2 - Eddie Goldman, DT, Florida State - 6'4" 335, 5.27 5 - Adrian Amos, S, Penn State - 6'0" 218, 4.37 (at pro day) - Still true. Amos ran a 4.56 at the combine, but a 4.37 and 4.40 at his pro day. Also still true. Amos makes the cut at 6'0". Ended up not being the case, as they took Goldman. On second thought, not sure this reflects at all on Fangio and seems more like an organizational approach (see Marcus Lattimore, Brandon Thomas, etc.). Both draft picks were from major college programs though, for what it's worth. Some other thoughts looking at this with fresh eyes: - One other thing I noticed taking the 2015 draft into account is that a lot of the DBs drafted for a Fangio defense had CB and S experience. Amos played some slot corner, as did Jimmie Ward. Culliver and Dontae Johnson started out as a safeties in college. Trenton Robinson was seen as a possible NFL CB. The guy I keep thinking fits this to a T is Sean Davis from Maryland. 6'1" 201. Played S until his last year when he moved to CB. Ran a 4.46 at the combine. Something to think about. - The 49ers spent lots of picks on pass-rushers, and fairly early: Smith, Fleming, Carradine, Lemonier & Lynch were all seen as pass-rush specialists. The Bears haven't drafted one under Fangio, but also don't have a young pass rusher on the roster. I have to believe that's a high priotity and wonder if it might even put Lawson/Spence/Ogbah/Dodd in play in the 1st/2nd - someone the Bears could envision as a 10 sack a year guy, which they don't currently have. If correct, we should be keeping a close eye on Sean Davis once we get to the 3rd/4th Rd: 6'1" 4.46 forty Played Safety and CB No doubt Jalen Ramsey is at the top of Fangio's board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 28, 2016 Report Share Posted March 28, 2016 I think this theory might get put to a pretty big test. I think Hargreaves might be there at 11 and would absolutely be BPA. He's only 5'10 but plays as physical as a larger corner. He also has really good hops to make up for his height. With Calvin Johnson retired, there aren't many big monster receivers out there anymore either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 I think this theory might get put to a pretty big test. I think Hargreaves might be there at 11 and would absolutely be BPA. He's only 5'10 but plays as physical as a larger corner. He also has really good hops to make up for his height. With Calvin Johnson retired, there aren't many big monster receivers out there anymore either. True but Alexander, Apple, and Jackson III fit his press cover style better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 --Safety back-to-back first rounders! And that's after drafting a safety the previous two years. --The "doesn't have to be fast"-LB idea works well, but I truly hope he doesn't use that reasoning for OLBs. The Bears don't need non-explosive OLBs. We have those already. We have a collection of "yeoman's effort"-type guys in Young, Houston, Washington, and Acho. The only truly special guy is McPhee. Also, in terms of ILBs, they'd be purely backup at this point with the signings of Trevathan and Freeman. Having said that, I REALLY hope it means Scooby Wright's 4.9 forty is ugly to other teams, and ignored by Fangio. --DEs are 6'3"-6'4"-ish, and 260-270 or so. The only one who wasn't was a late round pick destined to be cut. These are the first two round probables for the position (even some tweeners), and only a few fit the weight. Most are too heavy: -A'Shawn Robinson - 6'4", 307 -DeForest Buckner - 6-7", 291 -Robert Nkemdiche - 6'3", 294 -Andrew Billings - 6'1", 311 -Sheldon Rankins - 6'1", 299 -Jarran Reed - 6'3", 307 -Vernon Butler - 6'4", 323 -Kevin Dodd - 6'5", 280 -Noah Spence - 6'2", 251 -Bronson Kaufusi - 6'6", 285 -Kenny Clark - 6'3", 314 -Emmanuel Ogbah - 6'4", 273 -Carl Nassib - 6'7", 277 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawhizz Posted March 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 --DEs are 6'3"-6'4"-ish, and 260-270 or so. The only one who wasn't was a late round pick destined to be cut. These are the first two round probables for the position (even some tweeners), and only a few fit the weight. Most are too heavy: -A'Shawn Robinson - 6'4", 307 -DeForest Buckner - 6-7", 291 -Robert Nkemdiche - 6'3", 294 -Andrew Billings - 6'1", 311 -Sheldon Rankins - 6'1", 299 -Jarran Reed - 6'3", 307 -Vernon Butler - 6'4", 323 -Kevin Dodd - 6'5", 280 -Noah Spence - 6'2", 251 -Bronson Kaufusi - 6'6", 285 -Kenny Clark - 6'3", 314 -Emmanuel Ogbah - 6'4", 273 -Carl Nassib - 6'7", 277 While I listed Aldon Smith and Cam Johnson as DEs, they lined up at LB for the 49ers, and Quinton Dial was a DE coming into the league at 6'5" 318. Also Hicks, who looks to be one of our starting DEs, is 6'5" 324, which doesn't really fit the draft model, though the rest of the guys you highlighted seem to align with Justin Smith's size, who excelled in that system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 And the thing about Justin Smith is he's ridiculously strong so while he's smaller, he's as tough to move as the bigger guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 29, 2016 Report Share Posted March 29, 2016 --Safety back-to-back first rounders! And that's after drafting a safety the previous two years. --The "doesn't have to be fast"-LB idea works well, but I truly hope he doesn't use that reasoning for OLBs. The Bears don't need non-explosive OLBs. We have those already. We have a collection of "yeoman's effort"-type guys in Young, Houston, Washington, and Acho. The only truly special guy is McPhee. Also, in terms of ILBs, they'd be purely backup at this point with the signings of Trevathan and Freeman. Having said that, I REALLY hope it means Scooby Wright's 4.9 forty is ugly to other teams, and ignored by Fangio. --DEs are 6'3"-6'4"-ish, and 260-270 or so. The only one who wasn't was a late round pick destined to be cut. These are the first two round probables for the position (even some tweeners), and only a few fit the weight. Most are too heavy: -A'Shawn Robinson - 6'4", 307 -DeForest Buckner - 6-7", 291 -Robert Nkemdiche - 6'3", 294 -Andrew Billings - 6'1", 311 -Sheldon Rankins - 6'1", 299 -Jarran Reed - 6'3", 307 -Vernon Butler - 6'4", 323 -Kevin Dodd - 6'5", 280 -Noah Spence - 6'2", 251 -Bronson Kaufusi - 6'6", 285 -Kenny Clark - 6'3", 314 -Emmanuel Ogbah - 6'4", 273 -Carl Nassib - 6'7", 277 I think we can give Scooby a 4.8 now since that is what he ran at his Pro Day. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/nfl-dra...arizona-pro-day He fits in the same mold with Matekevich, they might as well be twins: Matakevich 6'0" 238lbs, 4.81 forty, 2.80 20yd, 1.66 10yd, 22 reps @ 225lbs, vertical 31" broad 9'4", shuttle 4.50 Wright 6'0" 239lbs, 4.80 forty, 2.82 20yd, 1.67 10yd, 22 reps @ 225lbs, vertical 31" broad 9'5", shuttle 4.47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 One S I am starting to grow on is Keanu Neal from Florida. He is not a strictly FS or SS, but can play either. The speed is not quite what I would like at 4.61 forty, but his verticle/broad jump were near the top and that power shows in many violent tackles. With his capability of playing deep and being strong inside, I think he can be coached up to excel and could start off the bat. He would make a perfect 4th RD pick. Vonn Bell would be my 3rd RD choice for a similiar S that won't be a risk deep either, but like DL, CB, and OT earlier. Cash, Killebrew, and Kearse are my guys if they want a hybrid SS/LB which is becoming a trend in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 One S I am starting to grow on is Keanu Neal from Florida. He is not a strictly FS or SS, but can play either. The speed is not quite what I would like at 4.61 forty, but his verticle/broad jump were near the top and that power shows in many violent tackles. With his capability of playing deep and being strong inside, I think he can be coached up to excel and could start off the bat. He would make a perfect 4th RD pick. Vonn Bell would be my 3rd RD choice for a similiar S that won't be a risk deep either, but like DL, CB, and OT earlier. Cash, Killebrew, and Kearse are my guys if they want a hybrid SS/LB which is becoming a trend in the league. It's gonna be interesting to see where Neal goes. He was actually invited to Chicago to be apart of the draft and it is usually only 1st rounders who get the invite. Neal doesn't really appear to be one. I like Bell and Darien Thompson....I think both go in the 2nd though. Wouldn't mind either being the pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 It's gonna be interesting to see where Neal goes. He was actually invited to Chicago to be apart of the draft and it is usually only 1st rounders who get the invite. Neal doesn't really appear to be one. I like Bell and Darien Thompson....I think both go in the 2nd though. Wouldn't mind either being the pick. If someone takes Neal strictly for his ceiling, I think 2nd RD is the highest he goes. He just started climbing boards after the combine, otherwise many had him between 3rd-5th rd. His range is good, just inconsistent. Good coaching can fix his deficiencies. I would lean 3rd round on him, but not with our 2nd. I think there will be better players available, but if he was invited some teams must have him circled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawhizz Posted March 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 It's funny on the safeties this year - I just can't seem to get a consensus of who is projected in which round, much moreso than any other position in the draft. For instance, I looked this evening on the way safeties were ranked by the sites that FanSpeak uses for its mocks, and even if I only look at the rankings that have been updated in the last two weeks, they are all over the map: - Three sites rank Neal as the #1 safety, but I've also seen him ranked #156, #164, #168, and #229 overall. - Karl Joseph and Jeremy Cash are the only safeties ranked in the double digits in every ranking (Joseph ranges from #49 to #91 overall and Cash ranges from #34 to #80). Therefore, it seems logical to conclude those guys will be 2nd to 3rd round picks. Thompson has a high rank of #23 and a low rank of #104, so he's probably a 2nd/3rd rounder too. - Bell is probably also a 2nd to 3rd rounder based on the rankings, though one site ranked him #17 overall (With the First Pick) and another ranked him #121 overall (Kyle Crabbs). - Killebrew, Green, and Davis are the only remaining safeties not to be ranked in the 200s by anybody. - KJ Dillon has the unique distinction of being ranked #15 by Kyle Crabbs and #325 by Draftec. To make a long story even longer, I don't think anyone really knows where most of these guys will go. I actually like quite a few of them, though, as I've mentioned, I think Sean Davis makes the most sense for what we know of Fangio. I'm not a big fan of Killebrew, Cash, or Green (I don't like drafting a safety that can't cover), but hopefully we picks someone sometime and they are good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 It's funny on the safeties this year - I just can't seem to get a consensus of who is projected in which round, much moreso than any other position in the draft. For instance, I looked this evening on the way safeties were ranked by the sites that FanSpeak uses for its mocks, and even if I only look at the rankings that have been updated in the last two weeks, they are all over the map: - Three sites rank Neal as the #1 safety, but I've also seen him ranked #156, #164, #168, and #229 overall. - Karl Joseph and Jeremy Cash are the only safeties ranked in the double digits in every ranking (Joseph ranges from #49 to #91 overall and Cash ranges from #34 to #80). Therefore, it seems logical to conclude those guys will be 2nd to 3rd round picks. Thompson has a high rank of #23 and a low rank of #104, so he's probably a 2nd/3rd rounder too. - Bell is probably also a 2nd to 3rd rounder based on the rankings, though one site ranked him #17 overall (With the First Pick) and another ranked him #121 overall (Kyle Crabbs). - Killebrew, Green, and Davis are the only remaining safeties not to be ranked in the 200s by anybody. - KJ Dillon has the unique distinction of being ranked #15 by Kyle Crabbs and #325 by Draftec. To make a long story even longer, I don't think anyone really knows where most of these guys will go. I actually like quite a few of them, though, as I've mentioned, I think Sean Davis makes the most sense for what we know of Fangio. I'm not a big fan of Killebrew, Cash, or Green (I don't like drafting a safety that can't cover), but hopefully we picks someone sometime and they are good. I don't think anyone really knows, remember last years crop Gerod Holliman 7th, Kurtis Drummond UDFA, Anthony Harris UDFA, Durrell Eskridge UDFA , Derron Smith 6th, Cody Prewitt UDFA and how it went for them? These name were constantly slotted anywhere from RD1-3. Shows you how hard good Safeties are to come by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 It's funny on the safeties this year - I just can't seem to get a consensus of who is projected in which round, much moreso than any other position in the draft. For instance, I looked this evening on the way safeties were ranked by the sites that FanSpeak uses for its mocks, and even if I only look at the rankings that have been updated in the last two weeks, they are all over the map: - Three sites rank Neal as the #1 safety, but I've also seen him ranked #156, #164, #168, and #229 overall. - Karl Joseph and Jeremy Cash are the only safeties ranked in the double digits in every ranking (Joseph ranges from #49 to #91 overall and Cash ranges from #34 to #80). Therefore, it seems logical to conclude those guys will be 2nd to 3rd round picks. Thompson has a high rank of #23 and a low rank of #104, so he's probably a 2nd/3rd rounder too. - Bell is probably also a 2nd to 3rd rounder based on the rankings, though one site ranked him #17 overall (With the First Pick) and another ranked him #121 overall (Kyle Crabbs). - Killebrew, Green, and Davis are the only remaining safeties not to be ranked in the 200s by anybody. - KJ Dillon has the unique distinction of being ranked #15 by Kyle Crabbs and #325 by Draftec. To make a long story even longer, I don't think anyone really knows where most of these guys will go. I actually like quite a few of them, though, as I've mentioned, I think Sean Davis makes the most sense for what we know of Fangio. I'm not a big fan of Killebrew, Cash, or Green (I don't like drafting a safety that can't cover), but hopefully we picks someone sometime and they are good. I think the variance is because some of these players' skills lean so strongly one way versus the other. Cash IMO is an in-the-box type. He's great in that role, if that's what you want from your safety. Among the 3rd day prospects, Sean Davis is at the top of my list because I want more of a coverage guy but he is big enough and has the attitude and ability to be successful in run support. I don't see that same coverage skill in Cash, Killebrew, or Thompson (who takes too many wrong steps in coverage but might be correctable). If teams want to do what the Cardinals have done with Buchanan they'll find some help in this draft. This is what makes a guy like Myles Jack so valuable. If you want him to step out and cover a move TE, or even a slot WR, you could still keep two other LB on the field for run support. You get a lot of scheme flexibility with a guy like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 It's funny on the safeties this year - I just can't seem to get a consensus of who is projected in which round, much moreso than any other position in the draft. For instance, I looked this evening on the way safeties were ranked by the sites that FanSpeak uses for its mocks, and even if I only look at the rankings that have been updated in the last two weeks, they are all over the map: - Three sites rank Neal as the #1 safety, but I've also seen him ranked #156, #164, #168, and #229 overall. - Karl Joseph and Jeremy Cash are the only safeties ranked in the double digits in every ranking (Joseph ranges from #49 to #91 overall and Cash ranges from #34 to #80). Therefore, it seems logical to conclude those guys will be 2nd to 3rd round picks. Thompson has a high rank of #23 and a low rank of #104, so he's probably a 2nd/3rd rounder too. - Bell is probably also a 2nd to 3rd rounder based on the rankings, though one site ranked him #17 overall (With the First Pick) and another ranked him #121 overall (Kyle Crabbs). - Killebrew, Green, and Davis are the only remaining safeties not to be ranked in the 200s by anybody. - KJ Dillon has the unique distinction of being ranked #15 by Kyle Crabbs and #325 by Draftec. To make a long story even longer, I don't think anyone really knows where most of these guys will go. I actually like quite a few of them, though, as I've mentioned, I think Sean Davis makes the most sense for what we know of Fangio. I'm not a big fan of Killebrew, Cash, or Green (I don't like drafting a safety that can't cover), but hopefully we picks someone sometime and they are good. Regarding the bolded portion, the Bears need a SS. They don't need a FS. The majority of the time, the SS is up front thumping. Sure, he has to cover sometimes, but that's mostly in zone. Killebrew, specifically, is a good example of the type of SS the Bears need to come up on the strong side, watch the TE, potentially cover the TE, and add in extra run game support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawhizz Posted March 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Regarding the bolded portion, the Bears need a SS. They don't need a FS. The majority of the time, the SS is up front thumping. Sure, he has to cover sometimes, but that's mostly in zone. Killebrew, specifically, is a good example of the type of SS the Bears need to come up on the strong side, watch the TE, potentially cover the TE, and add in extra run game support. I guess it depends on whether the Bears see Amos as a FS or SS. I thought he played mostly FS last year, but he didn't have many impact coverage plays. Then I saw something from Brad Biggs this morning saying they saw him as a SS, but on the Bears website he's listed as a FS. So I guess he's a FS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 One thing I've read is Fangio likes his safeties to be interchangeable. I take that as well rounded guys who can both cover and hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 One thing I've read is Fangio likes his safeties to be interchangeable. I take that as well rounded guys who can both cover and hit. I think Bell, Neal and possibly Davis can play either FS/SS. That would make it tougher on opposing QB's to make reads if they cannot determine what the S is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scs787 Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Thinking more on that. Tony Jefferson has basically been pleading for the Bears to offer him a contract on Twitter, and yet they haven't. Jefferson, from what I've read, is more of a pure SS, so that might explain why they haven't even thrown an offer his way despite having a need, plenty of $$$, and him showing the desire to play here. That could be very telling on what they think about pure strong safeties, or it could mean they just view Amos as a SS and I've got it all wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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