I know it's taboo around here, but...

[jason]

I don't care how it happens. Move him inside and keep Long where he is, or flip-flop, but these two together would dominate. He is NASTY, and plays with a serious mean streak. Completely rag-dolls opponents.

 

 

[Mongo3451]

I don't care how it happens. Move him inside and keep Long where he is, or flip-flop, but these two together would dominate. He is NASTY, and plays with a serious mean streak. Completely rag-dolls opponents.

 

 

Just mentioned him on the draft post, so obviously I'm in!

[Chitownhustla]

I don't care how it happens. Move him inside and keep Long where he is, or flip-flop, but these two together would dominate. He is NASTY, and plays with a serious mean streak. Completely rag-dolls opponents.

 

 

 

I would be down with this. You have said, I have said, a lot of people have said it. Make the Oline better make the whole better!

 

 

Is he rated a top 10 pick? I have not read up on him.

 

 

[Stinger226]

I would be down with this. You have said, I have said, a lot of people have said it. Make the Oline better make the whole better!

 

 

Is he rated a top 10 pick? I have not read up on him.

I have no problem with that, he is a top 10 talent and the OLine makes everything else better.

[jason]

I would be down with this. You have said, I have said, a lot of people have said it. Make the Oline better make the whole better!

 

 

Is he rated a top 10 pick? I have not read up on him.

 

Depends on where you read.

Top 10 - http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2015/1/31/794...on-scherff-iowa

Early 1st? - http://fanspeak.com/nfldraft/2015/03/04/br...couting-report/

Top 20 - http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2015bscherff.php

Late 1st? - http://withthefirstpick.com/2015/01/31/bra...uting-report/4/

 

[Chitownhustla]

Depends on where you read.

Top 10 - http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2015/1/31/794...on-scherff-iowa

Early 1st? - http://fanspeak.com/nfldraft/2015/03/04/br...couting-report/

Top 20 - http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2015bscherff.php

Late 1st? - http://withthefirstpick.com/2015/01/31/bra...uting-report/4/

 

 

Only reason I asked was we drafted Gabe Carmi late in the 1st, I really had hoped he fell to us. We needed Oline help. He didnt pan out. If they were going to go Oline I hope he would be a No Doubt about it type of guy at 7.

 

 

Someone else posted Mel has him as number 6 on his big board.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mongo3451]

Kiper has him as the 6th best player in the draft.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Only reason I asked was we drafted Gabe Carmi late in the 1st, I really had hoped he fell to us. We needed Oline help. He didnt pan out. If they were going to go Oline I hope he would be a No Doubt about it type of guy at 7.

 

 

Someone else posted Mel has him as number 6 on his big board.

 

Don't forget about Chris Williams who was chosen 14th overall in the 2008 draft. He was rated #3 OT coming out of college that year right after Jake Long and Ryan Clady.

 

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dspro...8&genpos=ot

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I don't care how it happens. Move him inside and keep Long where he is, or flip-flop, but these two together would dominate. He is NASTY, and plays with a serious mean streak. Completely rag-dolls opponents.

 

 

 

Your obsession with olinemem is officially disturbing.

[AZ54]

I don't see Scherff as a tackle although I think he'd survive ok at RT, certainly better than Mills. Nor do I see him as a top 10 pick simply because I don't think he moves well enough to protect the edge in the NFL. Put him at OG and I think he's a perennial Pro Bowl player. Then kick the more athletic Long to RT and I agree we'd have one heck of a Oline. I think this should be one of our options if we decide to trade down a few places but I'd go WR or OLB if we stay at #7.

[Stinger226]

Your obsession with olinemem is officially disturbing.

We still need OL prospects, all good teams have them. If your going to throw your hat in the ring, I could make worst choices.

[jason]

Your obsession with olinemem is officially disturbing.

 

If the Bears ever fixed their OL it might change. The simple fact is, however, that the weakness of the OL has hindered this team offensively for a decade. The fact that the Bears always seem to be near the bottom in protecting their QBs, and near the top in allowing sacks would be one thing if they ran great, but they are also perennially near the top in the number of running plays where the RB is hit behind the LOS.

 

We don't know the potential of the offense until it has time to start, use all its weapons, and progress forward. Give you less than three seconds in a car and you never get to feel 5th gear. Same thing here. Ever notice how it seems like guys like Brady, Romo, Rodgers, Brees, and Manning have all day to throw in the pocket? Ever notice how this is not the case on 95% of the Bears' passing plays? At MAX, Cutler gets to his second read before getting planted. Hell, even the incoming staff realized Cutler got rattled during his stay in Chicago thus far.

 

Until this team prioritizes OL, it will have offensive inefficiency, and won't be consistently good.

[Stinger226]

I don't see Scherff as a tackle although I think he'd survive ok at RT, certainly better than Mills. Nor do I see him as a top 10 pick simply because I don't think he moves well enough to protect the edge in the NFL. Put him at OG and I think he's a perennial Pro Bowl player. Then kick the more athletic Long to RT and I agree we'd have one heck of a Oline. I think this should be one of our options if we decide to trade down a few places but I'd go WR or OLB if we stay at #7.

I agree with that, a good OL makes all aspects of offense better.

[killakrzydav]

He's not a sure fire OL prospect. I certainly am not drafting a guard at #7. At this slot you need a LT or trade back.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

If the Bears ever fixed their OL it might change. The simple fact is, however, that the weakness of the OL has hindered this team offensively for a decade. The fact that the Bears always seem to be near the bottom in protecting their QBs, and near the top in allowing sacks would be one thing if they ran great, but they are also perennially near the top in the number of running plays where the RB is hit behind the LOS.

 

We don't know the potential of the offense until it has time to start, use all its weapons, and progress forward. Give you less than three seconds in a car and you never get to feel 5th gear. Same thing here. Ever notice how it seems like guys like Brady, Romo, Rodgers, Brees, and Manning have all day to throw in the pocket? Ever notice how this is not the case on 95% of the Bears' passing plays? At MAX, Cutler gets to his second read before getting planted. Hell, even the incoming staff realized Cutler got rattled during his stay in Chicago thus far.

 

Until this team prioritizes OL, it will have offensive inefficiency, and won't be consistently good.

 

First thing, don't compare Cutler to the others like you did. There ain't one to be made, even IF he had what you consider an all star line. Secondly we've discussed here numerous times that Rodgers has been statistically harassed (sacked and hurried) more times than Cutler in some instances and produced better. Obviously this isn't about me bashing Cutler...again but the second part of that point was about the comparison of oline efficiency.

 

Back about 2-3 years ago the Bears built a pretty good oline with bringing Slausen and Busrod over through FA and drafting Long and Mills along with keeping Garza as the center. (Yes I'll grant that Long was 1st round and has since proven himself - oddly where was he rated out of college and how many went 'huh' when he was drafted?). Yet despite it all Cutler still played like Cutler enough that McCown looked better when put in his place. During that time I think the argument could be made they equally had the same opportunities but provided differnt results. Cutler is Cutler and there is no avoiding it.

 

Similar to how AZ says he doesn't think this guy is necessarily 7th round material Id agree. i still think skill positions are more important. If the Bears trade spots and move down the board still not sure olineman is the answer. Still have to think there are more important needs at Safety, WR and Corner that need to be addressed before this.

[killakrzydav]

There is not a OL prospect thats grading consistently in the top half of the draft. Im fine with a second round lineman though

[Alaskan Grizzly]

There is not a OL prospect thats grading consistently in the top half of the draft. Im fine with a second round lineman though

 

I'd agree to this. If BPA pointed that way.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I don't care how it happens. Move him inside and keep Long where he is, or flip-flop, but these two together would dominate. He is NASTY, and plays with a serious mean streak. Completely rag-dolls opponents.

 

 

The more I think about it, the more I want us to move down a few spots (with a team moving up for wideout) and we draft the best olineman available. Lets get a nasty oline and I really like Brandon.

[jason]

First thing, don't compare Cutler to the others like you did. There ain't one to be made, even IF he had what you consider an all star line. Secondly we've discussed here numerous times that Rodgers has been statistically harassed (sacked and hurried) more times than Cutler in some instances and produced better. Obviously this isn't about me bashing Cutler...again but the second part of that point was about the comparison of oline efficiency.

 

Back about 2-3 years ago the Bears built a pretty good oline with bringing Slausen and Busrod over through FA and drafting Long and Mills along with keeping Garza as the center. (Yes I'll grant that Long was 1st round and has since proven himself - oddly where was he rated out of college and how many went 'huh' when he was drafted?). Yet despite it all Cutler still played like Cutler enough that McCown looked better when put in his place. During that time I think the argument could be made they equally had the same opportunities but provided differnt results. Cutler is Cutler and there is no avoiding it.

 

Similar to how AZ says he doesn't think this guy is necessarily 7th round material Id agree. i still think skill positions are more important. If the Bears trade spots and move down the board still not sure olineman is the answer. Still have to think there are more important needs at Safety, WR and Corner that need to be addressed before this.

 

First, I compared the time Cutler had vs. the time the other QBs had, which is a completely valid point.

 

Second, regarding the Rodgers red herring, it was pointed out during those previous discussions that Rodgers may have been harassed, but his harassment was more often in the form of blown up plays. Many guys doing things wrong simultaneously. Cutler, on the other hand, had to endure his OL taking turns, so that there was virtually never any certainty about remaining upright. In other words, Rodgers got 2 or 3 guys who screwed up in one or two plays, then had outstanding protection for several other plays, which is more a sign of miscommunication than anything. Cutler had 4 or 5 guys mess up in 8 or 9 plays, where it was almost impossible to predict or correct the failure, and multiple drives were hindered. You're right, however, about the OL during Long's rookie year. Imagine that, the offense did VERY well that year. Then the OL regressed in 2014, the offense couldn't carry a horrible defense, and the coaching staff got fired.

 

Third, a discussion about the OL need not include your hatred for Cutler. Nobody will disagree with the notion that McCown looked like a superstar within the offense...which was in 2013, BTW. Why that is so makes this a much more complex debate. But since you brought in other players, consider this: the offense had the same weapons in 2013 and 2014, yet the OL performed different from one year to the next. If skill players made more difference, then the offense should have been much more productive last year despite the OL. Right?

 

Finally, I'm throwing out the OL point since everyone is clamoring for BPA. I don't even really want him drafted at #7 if Collins is there. Or a trade down for either Scherr or Collins. That's who I'd prefer at this moment. Right now, it's very difficult to tell which way this team is going. But I know one thing to be true, the two positions the Bears have had a lot of trouble with for years, and years, and years are OL and S.

[Stinger226]

First, I compared the time Cutler had vs. the time the other QBs had, which is a completely valid point.

 

Second, regarding the Rodgers red herring, it was pointed out during those previous discussions that Rodgers may have been harassed, but his harassment was more often in the form of blown up plays. Many guys doing things wrong simultaneously. Cutler, on the other hand, had to endure his OL taking turns, so that there was virtually never any certainty about remaining upright. In other words, Rodgers got 2 or 3 guys who screwed up in one or two plays, then had outstanding protection for several other plays, which is more a sign of miscommunication than anything. Cutler had 4 or 5 guys mess up in 8 or 9 plays, where it was almost impossible to predict or correct the failure, and multiple drives were hindered. You're right, however, about the OL during Long's rookie year. Imagine that, the offense did VERY well that year. Then the OL regressed in 2014, the offense couldn't carry a horrible defense, and the coaching staff got fired.

 

Third, a discussion about the OL need not include your hatred for Cutler. Nobody will disagree with the notion that McCown looked like a superstar within the offense...which was in 2013, BTW. Why that is so makes this a much more complex debate. But since you brought in other players, consider this: the offense had the same weapons in 2013 and 2014, yet the OL performed different from one year to the next. If skill players made more difference, then the offense should have been much more productive last year despite the OL. Right?

 

Finally, I'm throwing out the OL point since everyone is clamoring for BPA. I don't even really want him drafted at #7 if Collins is there. Or a trade down for either Scherr or Collins. That's who I'd prefer at this moment. Right now, it's very difficult to tell which way this team is going. But I know one thing to be true, the two positions the Bears have had a lot of trouble with for years, and years, and years are OL and S.

Grizzly lives in the past, 10 years from now he will still be bringing up hating Cutler and loving McCown. He cant play chess so you have to keep it simple when you post, he just gets confused.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

On a sidenote, you know what is great about drafting a really good olineman and having a really good oline...if you switch QB's and decide Jay isn't the guy...well it only helps the next guy and ensures we haven't put them in a position where they are running for their lives, etc. You actually put a young QB behind a good line, which would be a major plus, imo.

 

And the nice thing about oline, if scheme's change, well, by and large good olinemen are good freaking olinemen.

 

PS: I still think you could look at how Romo reinvented himself behind a better oline and running game and think that Jay could also reinvent himself in a similar manner.

[adam]

I am not against Scherff in the first, but it would hard to do that over some of the other guys at #7.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I am not against Scherff in the first, but it would hard to do that over some of the other guys at #7.

I agree with you. I think if we took an olineman it would be after moving down a few slots in the draft.

 

[lemonej]

If the Bears ever fixed their OL it might change. The simple fact is, however, that the weakness of the OL has hindered this team offensively for a decade. The fact that the Bears always seem to be near the bottom in protecting their QBs, and near the top in allowing sacks would be one thing if they ran great, but they are also perennially near the top in the number of running plays where the RB is hit behind the LOS.

 

We don't know the potential of the offense until it has time to start, use all its weapons, and progress forward. Give you less than three seconds in a car and you never get to feel 5th gear. Same thing here. Ever notice how it seems like guys like Brady, Romo, Rodgers, Brees, and Manning have all day to throw in the pocket? Ever notice how this is not the case on 95% of the Bears' passing plays? At MAX, Cutler gets to his second read before getting planted. Hell, even the incoming staff realized Cutler got rattled during his stay in Chicago thus far.

 

Until this team prioritizes OL, it will have offensive inefficiency, and won't be consistently good.

Last year this team played guys named Groy and Ola on the OL as starters. This should be taken into consideration when assessing the OL's play last year. When all the guys were healthy the year before the only hit Cutler would take was when he would hold the ball longer than he should have.That is his make up for most of his career and an OL can only protect so long. Then factor in injuries to his top two WRs a couple of games and now we are looking at exactly what happened during the season. Garza just got launched I wonder if through tape review this new staff felt he was not making the proper line adjustments. The only guy left from the awful lines of JA and Lovie was Garza and I believe the lines lack of performance can be tied to Garza. I personally wanted him replaced 2 years ago but they felt he was still serviceable.

Jason I'm a big fan of former GM Jim Finks who built the 85 Bears on both lines with 1st rd draft picks and that philosophy has not happened in the last 20 years until they took Mills and long in the same draft.

Just think the 83 draft Covert, Thayer and Bortz all in the same draft. Now we're lucky if we get 2 OL picked in 1 draft.

[Stinger226]

Last year this team played guys named Groy and Ola on the OL as starters. This should be taken into consideration when assessing the OL's play last year. When all the guys were healthy the year before the only hit Cutler would take was when he would hold the ball longer than he should have.That is his make up for most of his career and an OL can only protect so long. Then factor in injuries to his top two WRs a couple of games and now we are looking at exactly what happened during the season. Garza just got launched I wonder if through tape review this new staff felt he was not making the proper line adjustments. The only guy left from the awful lines of JA and Lovie was Garza and I believe the lines lack of performance can be tied to Garza. I personally wanted him replaced 2 years ago but they felt he was still serviceable.

Jason I'm a big fan of former GM Jim Finks who built the 85 Bears on both lines with 1st rd draft picks and that philosophy has not happened in the last 20 years until they took Mills and long in the same draft.

Just think the 83 draft Covert, Thayer and Bortz all in the same draft. Now we're lucky if we get 2 OL picked in 1 draft.

If we go by that philosophy, our first 4 picks should be two OL ad two DL and build up the lines. I actually would have no problem with that even thou Im all in on Cooper and White.

 

Something like Shelton/NT-AJ Cann/OG-Harry Anderson/DE-Grasu/OC