The sky is not falling

[scs787]

Ill take Cutler over Stafford allllllllll day. Stafford has been throwing to MEGATRON his entire career.

 

 

Andrew Luck has won and got his team to the playoffs how many times??? The Colts have been good because of Luck, they have gotten to the playoffs because of Luck.

 

 

Ill take Lucks INT's all day if it meant winning.

 

Certainly not trying to say Jay is better than Luck. Just thought it was an interesting stat and one to use as a frame of reference. Luck's D hasn't been historically bad, so turnovers don't hurt as much as they do for Jay when his D is horrendous. Biggest knock on Jay is turnovers right?

[Chitownhustla]

Certainly not trying to say Jay is better than Luck. Just thought it was an interesting stat and one to use as a frame of reference. Luck's D hasn't been historically bad, so turnovers don't hurt as much as they do for Jay when his D is horrendous. Biggest knock on Jay is turnovers right?

 

 

I totally get what you were saying and didn't think you were saying Cutler is better then Luck. I may have not worded my post correctly.

 

 

Winning covers any INT's. If the Colts continue to lose and Luck continues to throw INT people will turn on him just like Cutler.

 

 

Farve threw a lot of INT's, but he won a lot of games and threw a lot of TD's. If you win people forget about the INT's.

[AZ54]

Ill take Cutler over Stafford allllllllll day. Stafford has been throwing to MEGATRON his entire career.

 

 

Andrew Luck has won and got his team to the playoffs how many times??? The Colts have been good because of Luck, they have gotten to the playoffs because of Luck.

 

 

Ill take Lucks INT's all day if it meant winning.

 

Luck under pressure looks a lot like Cutler under pressure. Same with Peyton Manning. Anyone remember the Superbowl against the Seahawks? If that was Cutler he'd be ripped apart on this board for that performance. For Manning, he gets credit for getting his team to the Superbowl. Jay gets the Bears to the NFC Championship and people say he gets no credit. Eli? No need to go over his INTs. He's won it all, and played well in those games, but has he done it without a great defense which was the excuse people gave Cutler when we got to the NFC Championship game?

 

I'm not saying Cutler is a great QB. But he's a good one. He'll always have his issues but he's the 12th highest paid QB now so last year's "he's the highest paid player in the league" is out the door. It's all about what is best for the team moving forward. Reality is people, especially the media, don't like the guy and that shapes every opinion of him, every comment about his negative plays. Luck throws an INT under pressure and people say I wonder why he did that?" Cutler does it and we hear "he's stupid".

 

 

 

Saying Bears should cut ties just because he isn't "it" doesn't mean a thing to me if you won't state who you would have drafted or traded for to be in his place. At the end of the day we have to field a competitive football team and I damn sure don't want to go back to the Henry Burris days.

 

Regarding those average QBs in the 13-17 range in salaries, you can't even trade for one of them (just behind Cutler are Romo, Stafford, Alex Smith, P. Manning, Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton) until you get to Sam Bradford. Can't recall anyone stating we should go after him. Next on the list is Nick Foles (he was available and he earns $12mil/yr), Brady, and Luck. After that it's all journeymen and backups.

 

How many QBs get drafted each year? Maybe 6? Good starting QBs, talking about those top 15 guys, career lasts about 10-15 years. So we have 60-90 QBs drafted during Brady's and Manning's careers. Of that 13 have become top 15 QBs. Many of them have warts in their game as Cutler does. Newton, Rivers, Ryan, Flacco, Tannehill, Kap, Romo (Dallas fans have burned him alive many times), Palmer, Dalton, Bradford, and Foles.

 

Just saying we have to figure out how to win with Cutler now because replacing him is a) far from a guarantee and comes with a long learning curve even if the guy has the potential to be better long term ( see Andrew Luck). This is the most pivotal position in all of sports, the most difficult to play as well. This doesn't mean I'm against drafting a potential future QB but I am against going all in and dumping Cutler just to say we have someone else when odds are that someone else is worse.

 

Life in the NFL: I know a few Denver fans who will gladly trade Peyton Manning.

 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I totally get what you were saying and didn't think you were saying Cutler is better then Luck. I may have not worded my post correctly.

 

 

Winning covers any INT's. If the Colts continue to lose and Luck continues to throw INT people will turn on him just like Cutler.

 

 

Farve threw a lot of INT's, but he won a lot of games and threw a lot of TD's. If you win people forget about the INT's.

 

Now you're on to it. Yes the mistakes are forgiven or forgotton... whatever you want to say.... if you are able to win games.

 

Yes Eli is not consistent BUT he's gone to and won 2 SBs. Cutler is not consistent and gone to 0 SBs.

Yes Andrew Luck is now and has thrown INTs. He's played what is it 3 years and gone to the playoffs twice. Cutler's played 10 years and brought our team to the playoffs once.

 

If I may borrow a phrase from the departed Al Davis all I can say is "Just win baby!"

[bowlingtwig]

Luck under pressure looks a lot like Cutler under pressure. Same with Peyton Manning. Anyone remember the Superbowl against the Seahawks? If that was Cutler he'd be ripped apart on this board for that performance. For Manning, he gets credit for getting his team to the Superbowl. Jay gets the Bears to the NFC Championship and people say he gets no credit. Eli? No need to go over his INTs. He's won it all, and played well in those games, but has he done it without a great defense which was the excuse people gave Cutler when we got to the NFC Championship game?

 

I'm not saying Cutler is a great QB. But he's a good one. He'll always have his issues but he's the 12th highest paid QB now so last year's "he's the highest paid player in the league" is out the door. It's all about what is best for the team moving forward. Reality is people, especially the media, don't like the guy and that shapes every opinion of him, every comment about his negative plays. Luck throws an INT under pressure and people say I wonder why he did that?" Cutler does it and we hear "he's stupid".

 

 

 

Saying Bears should cut ties just because he isn't "it" doesn't mean a thing to me if you won't state who you would have drafted or traded for to be in his place. At the end of the day we have to field a competitive football team and I damn sure don't want to go back to the Henry Burris days.

 

Regarding those average QBs in the 13-17 range in salaries, you can't even trade for one of them (just behind Cutler are Romo, Stafford, Alex Smith, P. Manning, Carson Palmer, Andy Dalton) until you get to Sam Bradford. Can't recall anyone stating we should go after him. Next on the list is Nick Foles (he was available and he earns $12mil/yr), Brady, and Luck. After that it's all journeymen and backups.

 

How many QBs get drafted each year? Maybe 6? Good starting QBs, talking about those top 15 guys, career lasts about 10-15 years. So we have 60-90 QBs drafted during Brady's and Manning's careers. Of that 13 have become top 15 QBs. Many of them have warts in their game as Cutler does. Newton, Rivers, Ryan, Flacco, Tannehill, Kap, Romo (Dallas fans have burned him alive many times), Palmer, Dalton, Bradford, and Foles.

 

Just saying we have to figure out how to win with Cutler now because replacing him is a) far from a guarantee and comes with a long learning curve even if the guy has the potential to be better long term ( see Andrew Luck). This is the most pivotal position in all of sports, the most difficult to play as well. This doesn't mean I'm against drafting a potential future QB but I am against going all in and dumping Cutler just to say we have someone else when odds are that someone else is worse.

 

Life in the NFL: I know a few Denver fans who will gladly trade Peyton Manning.

excellent post

[ASHKUM BEAR]

If we by chance end up with a top 3 pick and have choice of QB, you have to seriously consider Jared Goff of Cal. He will have questions because of playing spread offense and being skinny (200#), but the kid has the "it". Why I see that factor is his completion % and TD to INTs. They are both great because he sees the whole field and uses progressions. He doesn't have a go to #1 nfl WR prospect. He knows how to look off DBs and find the open man. Nothing spectacular in athletic or arm strength, but nothing poor in those caregories either. He is clutch and plays big in big games too. He has surpassed all Cals QBs in stats, including Aaron Rodgers too to throw that in. Having Cutler will allow him time to adjust to a NFL system, like Mariota is adjusting to now. If we get the opportunity, I would be torn because of other needs to improve on while having a serviceable guy in Jay, but finding a QB in the draft would be pretty cool too.

[scs787]

Now you're on to it. Yes the mistakes are forgiven or forgotton... whatever you want to say.... if you are able to win games.

 

Yes Eli is not consistent BUT he's gone to and won 2 SBs. Cutler is not consistent and gone to 0 SBs.

Yes Andrew Luck is now and has thrown INTs. He's played what is it 3 years and gone to the playoffs twice. Cutler's played 10 years and brought our team to the playoffs once.

 

If I may borrow a phrase from the departed Al Davis all I can say is "Just win baby!"

 

And those guys didn't have historically bad defenses.

 

I know I'm cherry picking here but for a 3 year period with the Bears Jay had a 67% win percentage.....Luck has a career 66% win percentage.

 

When your D is as bad as the Bears D the last 2 1/8 years it's really tough to win games no matter who you are.

[adam]

And those guys didn't have historically bad defenses.

 

I know I'm cherry picking here but for a 3 year period with the Bears Jay had a 67% win percentage.....Luck has a career 66% win percentage.

 

When your D is as bad as the Bears D the last 2 1/8 years it's really tough to win games no matter who you are.

I posted this in another thread, take the Bears Defense and add it to one of the worst offensive lines and any QB would play much worse than expected:

 

Since Cutler became a Bear in 2009, Chicago’s offensive line pass-block grades were as follows:

 

2009: -26.8

2010: -108.7

2011: -60.0

2012: -41.2

2013: -45.8

2014: -33.4

Total: -315.9

 

Compare those numbers to what his main divisional rival, Aaron Rodgers, has experienced (+93.7 PFF pass block grade) during the same time-frame, and you can see how short-handed Cutler has been from the get-go.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/...iss-jay-cutler/

 

[scs787]

I posted this in another thread, take the Bears Defense and add it to one of the worst offensive lines and any QB would play much worse than expected:

 

 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/...iss-jay-cutler/

 

Somehow missed this.

 

It really is a daunting task to overcome.....Lucks OL has been pretty bad to, and it has resulted in an 0-2 start.

 

 

[Chitownhustla]

And those guys didn't have historically bad defenses.

 

I know I'm cherry picking here but for a 3 year period with the Bears Jay had a 67% win percentage.....Luck has a career 66% win percentage.

 

When your D is as bad as the Bears D the last 2 1/8 years it's really tough to win games no matter who you are.

 

 

To add I don't remember The NY Giants having any glaring needs. Didn't they have a great Dline that got after the QB? Not sure but wasn't that the same year the Giants sacked Cutler 8 times in the first half?

 

 

[scs787]

To add I don't remember The NY Giants having any glaring needs. Didn't they have a great Dline that got after the QB? Not sure but wasn't that the same year the Giants sacked Cutler 8 times in the first half?

 

In 2007 they lead the league in sacks with 53. Next highest had 47. In 2011 they were 3rd with 48, 50 was the highest. They also only got 9 games out of Osi Umenyora (who had 9 sacks in 9 games) Justin Tuck only played 12 games. Those teams with Osi, Tuck, and JPP were killer.

 

Looks like they didn't play Chicago in 2011.....looking it up that was 2010, they had 10 sacks that game.

 

That year, 2010, Eli had 32 turnovers, and they still went 10-6....Why?? Because they had a good defense.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I posted this in another thread, take the Bears Defense and add it to one of the worst offensive lines and any QB would play much worse than expected:

 

 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/...iss-jay-cutler/

 

I'm sorry but im probably going to regret doing this...

 

How do you come up with stats like that? I mean what is the formula? Is this something one of you guys ghost wrote? Wait, where's Jason? We have gone back and forth over various stats over the years and almost every time the opposite side says "stats are only so good" as what you want them to say and how you interpret them etc etc...

 

For example, how many times have most of said Cutler did well two years ago under Trestmans offense partly due to an intact Oline (played most of the season together). Yet according to the above stats that was one of the lesser favorable statistical years. And talking about Rodgers; how is it his Oline "overall" did well when I know he's been said to have been sacked more times in some years than has Cutler. A fact most of you didn't dispute, but instead offered that Rodgers was quite simply a better player. These stats seem off to me.

[scs787]

I'm sorry but im probably going to regret doing this...

 

How do you come up with stats like that? I mean what is the formula? Is this something one of you guys ghost wrote? Wait, where's Jason? We have gone back and forth over various stats over the years and almost every time the opposite side says "stats are only so good" as what you want them to say and how you interpret them etc etc...

 

For example, how many times have most of said Cutler did well two years ago under Trestmans offense partly due to an intact Oline (played most of the season together). Yet according to the above stats that was one of the lesser favorable statistical years. And talking about Rodgers; how is it his Oline "overall" did well when I know he's been said to have been sacked more times in some years than has Cutler. A fact most of you didn't dispute, but instead offered that Rodgers was quite simply a better player. These stats seem off to me.

 

Here's a pretty good take from a packers site(I felt dirty being in there) on why Rodgers gets sacked so much.

 

 

A common criticism of our beloved quarterback throughout the years has been his propensity to hold on to the ball in trying to extend plays. Whether he ends up scrambling for a first down or hitting a receiver on an improvised route, there have been numerous times where Aaron Rodgers’ has saved failing plays. Yet we are ever so reluctant to take the bad with the good.

 

Kevin Seifert over at the ESPN NFC North Blog recently shared some statistics about the division quarterbacks and their “time in pocket.” (This was actually the impetus for my blog post.) According to ESPN Stats and Information, Rodgers spent an average of 2.82 second in the pocket, which was longer than 34 other quarterbacks. He also had the highest sack rate per drop-back in the NFC North.

 

 

 

Really, this is some fairly damning evidence. It doesn’t take into account plays made outside of the pocket or even the average sack speed, but it does clearly show that Aaron Rodgers took longer to throw the ball than most quarterbacks in 2012.

 

The major counterpoint is that Rodgers more than makes up for this with the successful extended plays and that he balances out the productivity with fewer interceptions from forced throws. Rodgers is, after all, the only quarterback in NFL history to have been sacked 50+ times in two separate seasons while still maintaining a 100+ passer rating in each. Still, we’re not talking about productivity, we’re talking about sacks, and we want to know whom to blame.

 

....So the OL could be doing well but they can't hold everyone forever.... It's kinda why advanced stats didn't like Bushrod for the opposite reason. Brees gets rid of the ball so quick that while Bushrod may have f'd up the quickness in which Brees got the ball out covered it up.

[bowlingtwig]

Here's a pretty good take from a packers site(I felt dirty being in there) on why Rodgers gets sacked so much.

 

 

A common criticism of our beloved quarterback throughout the years has been his propensity to hold on to the ball in trying to extend plays. Whether he ends up scrambling for a first down or hitting a receiver on an improvised route, there have been numerous times where Aaron Rodgers’ has saved failing plays. Yet we are ever so reluctant to take the bad with the good.

 

Kevin Seifert over at the ESPN NFC North Blog recently shared some statistics about the division quarterbacks and their “time in pocket.” (This was actually the impetus for my blog post.) According to ESPN Stats and Information, Rodgers spent an average of 2.82 second in the pocket, which was longer than 34 other quarterbacks. He also had the highest sack rate per drop-back in the NFC North.

 

 

 

Really, this is some fairly damning evidence. It doesn’t take into account plays made outside of the pocket or even the average sack speed, but it does clearly show that Aaron Rodgers took longer to throw the ball than most quarterbacks in 2012.

 

The major counterpoint is that Rodgers more than makes up for this with the successful extended plays and that he balances out the productivity with fewer interceptions from forced throws. Rodgers is, after all, the only quarterback in NFL history to have been sacked 50+ times in two separate seasons while still maintaining a 100+ passer rating in each. Still, we’re not talking about productivity, we’re talking about sacks, and we want to know whom to blame.

 

....So the OL could be doing well but they can't hold everyone forever.... It's kinda why advanced stats didn't like Bushrod for the opposite reason. Brees gets rid of the ball so quick that while Bushrod may have f'd up the quickness in which Brees got the ball out covered it up.

I got an extremely hot take for this 1 y'all will either love or crush me for. Either way I got thick skin. I can take. But on who's to blame? It's a collective 11 man group. Think about it. It starts up front. If those guys can't block the qb is in trouble. If the rb or te doesn't read the blitz and misses the pick up the qb is in trouble. Even after that the rb/WR/TE has to get open. In 1st 2 instances the qb is forced to throw quicker or risk taking sack. But if the skill guys can't open space the qb then must hang on to ball longer than they need. And if that happens you can't expect oline guys to hold there blocks forever. Then after all that the qb has to read things correctly as well. All of this in a play that takes 5-10 sec. Talk about difficult. Then after everything it's the qb who takes all blame or all criticism. Seems f'd up to me

[killakrzydav]

The sky fell long ago and I don't think many Bears fans will admit it. The Bears are as bad as a team out there right now.

 

[adam]

The sky fell long ago and I don't think many Bears fans will admit it. The Bears are as bad as a team out there right now.

I don't think it is as bad as people are making it out to be. We were almost assured of 0-3 or 1-2 after 3 games. White has been out all year and we were really looking to have a compliment to Alshon on the outside. We have yet to see that. Alshon himself has been basically out all year and was somewhat effective in the short amount of time he has played. Cutler was decent before injury and the defense is slowing improving. Seattle was 5/16 on 3rd Downs and 0 for 2 in the Red Zone. The defense only allowed 1 offensive TD, which is an improvement.

 

Are we a playoff team, no, but we are playing competitive. If we get Cutler, Jeffery, and Ratliff all back next week, that will be a huge boost. I am most upset with the special teams play. That is killing us.

 

Watch the other teams with injuries, Dallas or Pittsburgh might not win one game while their QBs are out. Look at Baltimore, Trestman has neutered the Ravens offense and they are 0-3. There are a lot of bad teams right now who have not played GB, ARZ, and SEA.

[jason]

I agree with Adam. The Bears have played competitively with three of the better teams in the NFL. Well, maybe not last week's second half, but otherwise yes.

[Chitownhustla]

Now you're on to it. Yes the mistakes are forgiven or forgotton... whatever you want to say.... if you are able to win games.

 

Yes Eli is not consistent BUT he's gone to and won 2 SBs. Cutler is not consistent and gone to 0 SBs.

Yes Andrew Luck is now and has thrown INTs. He's played what is it 3 years and gone to the playoffs twice. Cutler's played 10 years and brought our team to the playoffs once.

 

If I may borrow a phrase from the departed Al Davis all I can say is "Just win baby!"

 

Point proven yesterday with Luck, looked terrible threw two picks in the first half one return for a TD. He brings the team back to win in the 4th and headlines read a whole lot different had they lost.

[madlithuanian]

Agreed on that.

 

Has Cutler ever done that? I just can't recall. Usually, once some bad things happen, I seem to recall more bad happening...and never a comeback.

 

 

 

Point proven yesterday with Luck, looked terrible threw two picks in the first half one return for a TD. He brings the team back to win in the 4th and headlines read a whole lot different had they lost.

 

[Chitownhustla]

Agreed on that.

 

Has Cutler ever done that? I just can't recall. Usually, once some bad things happen, I seem to recall more bad happening...and never a comeback.

 

 

2 or 3 years ago Cutler was nicknamed "4th Quarter jay" he brought us back in 3 out of the 4 first games of the season. He played like shit in the first half and kicked ass in the 2nd.

 

 

At that point I thought we were in for a good season, I think he later got hurt against WAS and McCown took over for 8 weeks.

 

 

Memory is a little foggy on which year it was but I think I have it right.

 

 

[scs787]

Cutler has 21 game winning drives, good for 45th all time, tied with Troy Aikmen.

 

His 17 comeback victories is good for 41st all time.

[madlithuanian]

OK, I do remember that now... I specifically remember a Minny game. Or maybe that was McMahon!

 

2 or 3 years ago Cutler was nicknamed "4th Quarter jay" he brought us back in 3 out of the 4 first games of the season. He played like shit in the first half and kicked ass in the 2nd.

 

 

At that point I thought we were in for a good season, I think he later got hurt against WAS and McCown took over for 8 weeks.

 

 

Memory is a little foggy on which year it was but I think I have it right.

 

[madlithuanian]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

 

 

Cutler has 21 game winning drives, good for 45th all time, tied with Troy Aikmen.

 

His 17 comeback victories is good for 41st all time.

 

[killakrzydav]

We've scored 3 points in the last 6 quarters. The only game that we were competitive throughout is GB. Our play calling is geared to hope to stay close not try to win. If we don't win this week, its likely we open the season 0-6 or maybe 1-8 depending on Cutlers health.