Draft Order Tracker

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Jack hasn't played much LB inside so at the moment he will need time to learn the position but he has the strength and quickness to get off blocks from lineman. There is no doubt it will be a learning curve for him but his upside on coverage is better than either of the other two 1st Rd LBs. If all 3 LBs are available when we pick, and if we pick one, it will be interesting to see who we go with because that will let us know which trait the coaches viewed as more valuable at this time.

If they want a player with the higher floor, Ragland. Player with a higher ceiling, Jack. With Jack, I would stress adding a big powerhouse at the DE. Having another D lineman that will draw doubles would help free him up to a bigger playmaker.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I have looked for the comment comparing Cutler to a GAME MANAGER but cant find it. Please explain how you see Cutler as a Game Manager comparable to Kyle Orton during his time with the Bears.

 

Well simply put and comparing stats over the duration of their careers. And using Orton as the measure since he is considered by many as a 'game manager':

 

Orton: (10 years) 101 TDs / 69 INTs / 18,037 yds / Passer rating of 81.2

Cutler: (10 years) 204 TDs / 141 INTs / 31,408 yds / Passer rating of 86.0

 

A mere 5 pts separate them in overall passer rating. Cutler had the benefit of this year's rating 92.3 (his best ever) so that bumped up the rating if only a little.

 

Sure one could say that Cutler has been twice as productive (yards, TD's) but the argument could be made that he's equally been INT prone. Hence the overall rating being close to that of the more 'game manager' in Orton.

 

And just for comparison sake. A few other random franchise QB's and their lifetime Passer ratings:

 

P Manning (18 yrs - 96.5), M. Ryan (8 yrs - 90.0), B. Roethlisberger (12 yrs - 94.0) and D. Brees (15 yrs - 95.8) I also checked out C. Palmer whose current overall rating is 88.1 mostly due to his consistently favorable play in AZ. Before that he muddled for quite awhile in Cinncinnati and Oakland and his rating hovered in the 84.4 range. So using him as a barometer and considering he's been at it for 13 years, Cutler's arrow may continue up.

[Chitownhustla]

Well simply put and comparing stats over the duration of their careers. And using Orton as the measure since he is considered by many as a 'game manager':

 

Orton: (10 years) 101 TDs / 69 INTs / 18,037 yds / Passer rating of 81.2

Cutler: (10 years) 204 TDs / 141 INTs / 31,408 yds / Passer rating of 86.0

 

A mere 5 pts separate them in overall passer rating. Cutler had the benefit of this year's rating 92.3 (his best ever) so that bumped up the rating if only a little.

 

Sure one could say that Cutler has been twice as productive (yards, TD's) but the argument could be made that he's equally been INT prone. Hence the overall rating being close to that of the more 'game manager' in Orton.

 

And just for comparison sake. A few other random franchise QB's and their lifetime Passer ratings:

 

P Manning (18 yrs - 96.5), M. Ryan (8 yrs - 90.0), B. Roethlisberger (12 yrs - 94.0) and D. Brees (15 yrs - 95.8) I also checked out C. Palmer whose current overall rating is 88.1 mostly due to his consistently favorable play in AZ. Before that he muddled for quite awhile in Cinncinnati and Oakland and his rating hovered in the 84.4 range. So using him as a barometer and considering he's been at it for 13 years, Cutler's arrow may continue up.

 

Orton was a game manager while with the Bears. Didnt win us many games and didnt lose us many games. Check his stats from those years. When he went to Denver he was a different QB, McDaniels used him a whole lot better then Lovie.

 

 

Comparing Passer Ratings to being a game manager is the dumbest thing I have ever heard........ You think Brett Farve was a game manager???????? Do me a favor and check is career passer rating.......Ill wait for your response.

 

 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Orton was a game manager while with the Bears. Didnt win us many games and didnt lose us many games. Check his stats from those years. When he went to Denver he was a different QB, McDaniels used him a whole lot better then Lovie.

 

 

Comparing Passer Ratings to being a game manager is the dumbest thing I have ever heard........ You think Brett Farve was a game manager???????? Do me a favor and check is career passer rating.......Ill wait for your response.

 

Dumbest thing you say? I was actually thinking you'd use Eli Manning as his passer rating is similar to Cutlers. Difference is Eli's won two SBs. And I'm going to take a guess at what Favres is. Problem is he has at least one championship to his name too. So perhaps all these guys' ratings are similar. But when it comes down to it and the games matter (playoffs and championships) they win. What did Cutler do when he was in ONE playoff game for the Bears? He sat down. Hell Grossman did better than that.

 

And to literally take your words of "comparing" the two and your comment about how Orton "didn't win us any games, didn't lose us any games", you know what Cutlers overall W/L record is? 68-68. A perfect .500. The epitome of average.

 

The part you're missing in my comparison is that Cutler IMPROVED to get to where he's at vs Orton who maintained his rating.

 

[jason]

Dumbest thing you say? I was actually thinking you'd use Eli Manning as his passer rating is similar to Cutlers. Difference is Eli's won two SBs. And I'm going to take a guess at what Favres is. Problem is he has at least one championship to his name too. So perhaps all these guys' ratings are similar. But when it comes down to it and the games matter (playoffs and championships) they win. What did Cutler do when he was in ONE playoff game for the Bears? He sat down. Hell Grossman did better than that.

 

And to literally take your words of "comparing" the two and your comment about how Orton "didn't win us any games, didn't lose us any games", you know what Cutlers overall W/L record is? 68-68. A perfect .500. The epitome of average.

 

The part you're missing in my comparison is that Cutler IMPROVED to get to where he's at vs Orton who maintained his rating.

 

I know rings and records are the end all, be all, but they are such a weak argument in a team sport with 33 starters on three different parts of the team. Guys that played as complimentary players with Jordan collected rings like a side-hobby. Meanwhile. Karl Malone and Charles Barkley don't have rings. Same thing goes in the NFL for guys like Marino. There hasn't been a single year since Cutler has been in Chicago where they have had the combination of decent OL, decent D, and decent WRs. I'm not even asking for great. Decent.

 

As for the Eli to Jay comparison, c'mon man.

 

2007 - He had a 56% completion percentage, 23 TDs, and 20 INTs (led the league). If his name were Cutler, you'd be tearing him apart for that season. That team made the SB and won it primarily behind the 3-headed rushing attack of Strahan, Osi, and Tuck (the team was 1st in the NFL in sacks). Besides that, he got out-dueled in the SB by Brady.

 

2011 - This one was better, since he went for nearly 5K in yards with 29TD/16INT, but there was plenty of help. Once again they got after the QB (2nd in the NFL in sacks), had a trio of dangerous rushers (Tuck, Osi, JPP) who acted as New England's kryptonite (Brady out-dueled Eli again), and this year they had the emergence of Victor Cruz.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I know rings and records are the end all, be all, but they are such a weak argument in a team sport with 33 starters on three different parts of the team. Guys that played as complimentary players with Jordan collected rings like a side-hobby. Meanwhile. Karl Malone and Charles Barkley don't have rings. Same thing goes in the NFL for guys like Marino. There hasn't been a single year since Cutler has been in Chicago where they have had the combination of decent OL, decent D, and decent WRs. I'm not even asking for great. Decent.

 

This coming from a guy who says Lovie isn't an effective coach. All he did while in Chicago for nine years was compile 6 winning seasons (in regards to W-L) *and two of which were while Cutler was there. 3x NFC North champ, 1 NFC Champion, a SB appearance ( all without the GREAT Cutler as QB) and Coach of the Year. Seems all pretty "decent" to me.

 

As for the Eli to Jay comparison, c'mon man.

 

2007 - He had a 56% completion percentage, 23 TDs, and 20 INTs (led the league). If his name were Cutler, you'd be tearing him apart for that season.

. If his name Cutler it would mean he made it to the Super Bowl. Which he hasn't.

[Chitownhustla]

Dumbest thing you say? I was actually thinking you'd use Eli Manning as his passer rating is similar to Cutlers. Difference is Eli's won two SBs. And I'm going to take a guess at what Favres is. Problem is he has at least one championship to his name too. So perhaps all these guys' ratings are similar. But when it comes down to it and the games matter (playoffs and championships) they win. What did Cutler do when he was in ONE playoff game for the Bears? He sat down. Hell Grossman did better than that.

 

And to literally take your words of "comparing" the two and your comment about how Orton "didn't win us any games, didn't lose us any games", you know what Cutlers overall W/L record is? 68-68. A perfect .500. The epitome of average.

 

The part you're missing in my comparison is that Cutler IMPROVED to get to where he's at vs Orton who maintained his rating.

 

 

Passer Rating has no correlation to being a game manager. If you watched Kyle Orton while playing for the Bears he was clearly a game manager. He handed the ball off, was not asked to do much. The defense and special teams were asked to win the game. They had an amazing defense and special teams, its how they won games. When he went to Denver he had a great oline, good weapons and a good scheme he put up way better numbers. That offense was better suited for Ortons talents, he is accurate in short to medium throws, one of the reasons McDaniels didnt need a QB like Cutler. Ortons numbers would not have been as good had he not had a very good supporting cast, Great Oline, BM, good TE and running backs. Remember the year before Cutler got to Chicago he was only sacked 8 times, i think the lowest in the NFL that year.

 

Cutler is not a game manager. You can come up with any stat you want, its not the case. Cutler improved and cut down on his mistakes, Im trying to remember if he threw any WTF INT's this year, I dont think he did. Just because he cut down on INT's doesnt make him a game manager. He clearly is a big reason why the Bears won 6 games this year. He elevated his game with a poor Oline and injury depleted WR group. A game manager would not have put up the stats or wins with this group.

 

 

I do have a concern with Gase leaving, we will find out how much he had an impact on Cutler this year. Hopefully Pace fixes the oline and they get a good OC hired. If they make Cutlers life easier I think he can improve on last years performance.

 

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Cutler appears extremely comfortable with Loggains. It almost seems as if the Bears went into this situation knowing Gase was here to help groom Loggains for the successorship. I do wonder if we bring in a new QB coach though. It also sounds like whatever scheme we run, will be consistent, although Loggains does bring with him a bit more west coast style than Gase, that said, as Fox has alluded to a couple times, the system is not Gase's and it doesn't go with him. We have a system and we will continue to run it.

 

Obviously Gase is sharp and he's a loss, but I have a lot of faith in Fox and if he and Jay are in on Loggains than I'm on board with that. Hard to evaluate him from his time with the Titans when he had garbage QB's.

[Chitownhustla]

Cutler appears extremely comfortable with Loggains. It almost seems as if the Bears went into this situation knowing Gase was here to help groom Loggains for the successorship. I do wonder if we bring in a new QB coach though. It also sounds like whatever scheme we run, will be consistent, although Loggains does bring with him a bit more west coast style than Gase, that said, as Fox has alluded to a couple times, the system is not Gase's and it doesn't go with him. We have a system and we will continue to run it.

 

Obviously Gase is sharp and he's a loss, but I have a lot of faith in Fox and if he and Jay are in on Loggains than I'm on board with that. Hard to evaluate him from his time with the Titans when he had garbage QB's.

 

 

very true, Cutler has always wanted to work with Loggains. He should still be comfortable in that regard.

[jason]

This coming from a guy who says Lovie isn't an effective coach. All he did while in Chicago for nine years was compile 6 winning seasons (in regards to W-L) *and two of which were while Cutler was there. 3x NFC North champ, 1 NFC Champion, a SB appearance ( all without the GREAT Cutler as QB) and Coach of the Year. Seems all pretty "decent" to me.

 

. If his name Cutler it would mean he made it to the Super Bowl. Which he hasn't.

 

 

Coach QB. How difficult is that to comprehend?

Also, don't cherry-pick, it's unbecoming. He was a .500 coach his time in Chicago, .500 in the playoffs, and only cared about .500 of the team, which ultimately was his undoing.