madlithuanian Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Agreed. Yep. No consistency When they can put away shite teams like San Fran, then I'll believe they have a future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 And this thread is especially poignant after such a brutal outcome. Other than the GB win, which is 100% worthwhile, the other wins aren't really great wins for the future of this team. It's kind of a$$hole-ish that you bring this thread back every time they lose a game they should've won. Frankly it doesn't support your point either so it's also sorta dumb. If they'd won all of the games you're using to make your point they'd be in first place in their division. We all realize the Bears are a flawed team but there are only a few teams out there that are "flawless" in any given year. The Packers and Vikings are both flawed. Further, to say teams are better off sucking to improve their draft position has never proven out. New England is drafting at the back of the line 99% of the years and look at them. The Lions draft at the top every year and look at them. It's how you use your picks and coach your players up wherever they're acquired. The loss yesterday was a W that Robby pissed away, end of discussion. We make that kick we aren't talking about all of the other obvious issues with this team because THEY OVERCAME them. Which absolutely should've happened yesterday. Teams learn what they're made of in those moments. The lessons the Bears are learning from losing games like this are detrimental to their future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Winning is a mindset and becomes habit. Can't become habit if you are losing games to be a draft position pussy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Winning is a mindset and becomes habit. Can't become habit if you are losing games to be a draft position pussy. And what are you supposed to do, ask your guys to give less than 100% because you want to lose and draft better players than them? Ridiculous. You play every damn game to win, make the playoffs if you can and then let the chips fall where they may. That 2006 team surprised all the way to the Superbowl and probably would've won it with a touch more luck. Talk about a team with flaws, it had several. I see Jason's point if you're in the last few weeks of a down season, you play younger guys, etc to get them some experience and forget about winning or losing. That's fine and different than going into early season games and coming out happy we lost. That's contrary to everything I know about competition and building a winning attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I see Jason's point if you're in the last few weeks of a down season, you play younger guys, etc to get them some experience and forget about winning or losing. That's fine and different than going into early season games and coming out happy we lost. That's contrary to everything I know about competition and building a winning attitude. agree. if you are mathematically out of contention you play your second and third string players to see whether they have a spot on next seasons roster. you may have to balance vets that are free agents to give them the chance to show their abilities for the next season but if you play vets that are under contract for next year and they are a lock for your roster you do so sparingly. urlacher comes to mind... it was the last game of the season and we were out of contention. lovie keeps him there until the last snap of a meaningless game in which he is injured on nearly the last play. this was a career altering injury that served no purpose other than to help keep lovie his job and probably cut urls career down by at least 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 agree. if you are mathematically out of contention you play your second and third string players to see whether they have a spot on next seasons roster. you may have to balance vets that are free agents to give them the chance to show their abilities for the next season but if you play vets that are under contract for next year and they are a lock for your roster you do so sparingly. urlacher comes to mind... it was the last game of the season and we were out of contention. lovie keeps him there until the last snap of a meaningless game in which he is injured on nearly the last play. this was a career altering injury that served no purpose other than to help keep lovie his job and probably cut urls career down by at least 2 years. I bitched about playing the starters leading up to that game and then boom Urlacher hurts his freaking knee and was never the same. Urlachers knee injury late in that meaningless games against the Vikes ended his career early. Had he not hurt his knee he prolly wouldn't have lost his step so quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 It's kind of a$$hole-ish that you bring this thread back every time they lose a game they should've won. Frankly it doesn't support your point either so it's also sorta dumb. If they'd won all of the games you're using to make your point they'd be in first place in their division. We all realize the Bears are a flawed team but there are only a few teams out there that are "flawless" in any given year. The Packers and Vikings are both flawed. Further, to say teams are better off sucking to improve their draft position has never proven out. New England is drafting at the back of the line 99% of the years and look at them. The Lions draft at the top every year and look at them. It's how you use your picks and coach your players up wherever they're acquired. The loss yesterday was a W that Robby pissed away, end of discussion. We make that kick we aren't talking about all of the other obvious issues with this team because THEY OVERCAME them. Which absolutely should've happened yesterday. Teams learn what they're made of in those moments. The lessons the Bears are learning from losing games like this are detrimental to their future. No, it is relavent since a good team wins yesterday's games. A good team destroys the Niners from yesterday. An average or subpar team plays inconsistently, losing when they should win. What yesterday, and some other games show, is this team has fight. Heart. And they are well coached. But it also shows a severe lack of talent, something that cant be overcome when mistakes are made. And THAT is the point. To hover at .500 or so, and play above their level is self-defeating. I agree about the concept of making good picks and coaching them well, but your examples are poor. It has been provennumerous times that drafting earlier is statistically significant and advantageous. Overachieving lessns our chances statistically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 By the way, I do not believe I ever said "lose games on purpose." I just said they are meaningless wins, like the Lovie wins a few times at the end of the season. They get the team a W, but sacrifice the draft position. I would argue the draft position is more beneficial than any "winning experience" a 7-9ish team gets. Be as confident as they would like to be, the team with the biggest, fastest horses wins most of the time. And that has been statistically shown on numerous occasions to be obtained more often near the top of the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 By the way, I do not believe I ever said "lose games on purpose." I just said they are meaningless wins, This thread goes back 4 games and references even earlier in the season. There is no such thing as a meaningless win that early, period. We were in the playoff hunt until this last game which we should've won along with two or three others. Yes, better talent would've certainly helped this team win those games with all the heart and coaching. But you don't write off any games as early as you were talking about being happy they didn't win meaningless games. That's Dan Bernstein talk and he's friggen jackass ego-maniac moron. This team, flawed as it is, should still be in the hunt and I'd be a lot happier, as would they, if they were. You're happy to play for next year. So be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I maybe off, and don't mean to put any words in jason's mouth, but I think what he's trying to say is that from a purely logical sense looking forward, losing more than winning when you know you aren't going even into the playoffs is better than winning and not going to the playoffs. I think if we were still in it, even mathematically, we'd want to win as much as possible. The logic would be that getting into the dance and getting the experience would be valuable. With not getting an invite to the dance, losing benefits the team with a better draft slot... That said, I think we still WANT the team to win and play hard and see what they have. It's just easier to stomach losses realizing that the silver lining is that we get a better pick. What I want to see if more opportunities for guys that are on the bubble. Let's see if they deserve to be here... This thread goes back 4 games and references even earlier in the season. There is no such thing as a meaningless win that early, period. We were in the playoff hunt until this last game which we should've won along with two or three others. Yes, better talent would've certainly helped this team win those games with all the heart and coaching. But you don't write off any games as early as you were talking about being happy they didn't win meaningless games. That's Dan Bernstein talk and he's friggen jackass ego-maniac moron. This team, flawed as it is, should still be in the hunt and I'd be a lot happier, as would they, if they were. You're happy to play for next year. So be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I maybe off, and don't mean to put any words in jason's mouth, but I think what he's trying to say is that from a purely logical sense looking forward, losing more than winning when you know you aren't going even into the playoffs is better than winning and not going to the playoffs. And if that was his point I'd agree on a purely numbers level. But he was saying this stuff several weeks ago. It was more a slam on Lovie, I suspect, and as such I should just let it go, but what the heck, he keeps posting to this thread every time the Bears lose so I'm going to respond with a little vinegar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Gotcha. I was only looking at this particular post. Vinegar helps with acid reflux! So, there's a silver lining there too! And if that was his point I'd agree on a purely numbers level. But he was saying this stuff several weeks ago. It was more a slam on Lovie, I suspect, and as such I should just let it go, but what the heck, he keeps posting to this thread every time the Bears lose so I'm going to respond with a little vinegar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 This thread goes back 4 games and references even earlier in the season. There is no such thing as a meaningless win that early, period. We were in the playoff hunt until this last game which we should've won along with two or three others. Yes, better talent would've certainly helped this team win those games with all the heart and coaching. But you don't write off any games as early as you were talking about being happy they didn't win meaningless games. That's Dan Bernstein talk and he's friggen jackass ego-maniac moron. This team, flawed as it is, should still be in the hunt and I'd be a lot happier, as would they, if they were. You're happy to play for next year. So be it. It went back several games because I thought, along with others, this team was not very good. That they over-achieved only masked the issue. Even if they lucked out and made it into a WC game, they would lose in the playoffs. That is a 100% certainty. What then? A team that still has the same holes but a worse pick. Essentially the team is a boat with a hole in the front. Just because you luck out, and there is a huge wave, and all the water rushes to the back, doesn't mean the hole disappeared. And it doesn't mean the boat won't take on water in future fishing "seasons." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 I maybe off, and don't mean to put any words in jason's mouth, but I think what he's trying to say is that from a purely logical sense looking forward, losing more than winning when you know you aren't going even into the playoffs is better than winning and not going to the playoffs. I think if we were still in it, even mathematically, we'd want to win as much as possible. The logic would be that getting into the dance and getting the experience would be valuable. With not getting an invite to the dance, losing benefits the team with a better draft slot... That said, I think we still WANT the team to win and play hard and see what they have. It's just easier to stomach losses realizing that the silver lining is that we get a better pick. What I want to see if more opportunities for guys that are on the bubble. Let's see if they deserve to be here... Essentially that's it, but I think getting into the dance by a slim margin just to get dumped by the hottest chick doesn't help a lot for the confidence. Especially when very minor improvements are from year to year, and the hot chick is very likely to dump you the next few years for the same reasons. Setbacks hurt. Michael Jordan didn't even make his HS basketball team at first. If he had, he might have had false confidence and not worked as hard. He has said so himself. Losing now builds character in ways winning does not, and it has the added benefit of better draft position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Setbacks hurt. Michael Jordan didn't even make his HS basketball team at first. If he had, he might have had false confidence and not worked as hard. He has said so himself. Losing now builds character in ways winning does not, and it has the added benefit of better draft position. Well, regardless of our disagreement on the W/L issue, I'll grant you this. The Bears appear to be doing things the "right way". You can see the results the Cubs and Blackhawks have achieved by building from the ground up. And yes, while the Cubs were doing that they experienced some ugly years. The Blackhawks moved to the front of the class much more quickly. Football is different and I still believe you can continue to rebuild, retrench and remodel the team while continuing to win and put a team on the field the fans can be proud of. Frankly, despite the record, the Bears have done that this year. And on that point I'm with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted December 9, 2015 Report Share Posted December 9, 2015 Well, regardless of our disagreement on the W/L issue, I'll grant you this. The Bears appear to be doing things the "right way". You can see the results the Cubs and Blackhawks have achieved by building from the ground up. And yes, while the Cubs were doing that they experienced some ugly years. The Blackhawks moved to the front of the class much more quickly. Football is different and I still believe you can continue to rebuild, retrench and remodel the team while continuing to win and put a team on the field the fans can be proud of. Frankly, despite the record, the Bears have done that this year. And on that point I'm with you. Yeah, I do not want to watch something like the Cubs did. Multiple seasons in the dump to reemerge. I am thinking more about the Spurs. Down one year hard because of Robinson's injury, pick up Duncan and dominate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.