DABEARSDABOMB Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just a reminder that he leads the league in field goals (yes that is more a sign of our offense not scoring TD's) but he also leads the league in 50+ yard field goals and despite his two different 2 miss games, is still middle of the road in overall accuracy. It was a crappy game, but its amazing how so many want to just kick him to the curb after years of being one of the more accurate kickers in the league (while kicking in a relatively hostile weather environment). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just a reminder that he leads the league in field goals (yes that is more a sign of our offense not scoring TD's) but he also leads the league in 50+ yard field goals and despite his two different 2 miss games, is still middle of the road in overall accuracy. It was a crappy game, but its amazing how so many want to just kick him to the curb after years of being one of the more accurate kickers in the league (while kicking in a relatively hostile weather environment). agreed. but I think most are saying it due to his 4.1 mil cap hit next year not solely based on performance. I have faith in Robbie and think he will respond with usual Robbie play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Gould has made more field goals than the Bears have touchdowns this year (26 to 25). That should tell you the problem. If you are continually not converting red-zone trips into touchdowns, then eventually the kicker is going to miss an important kick and you are screwed. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan2000 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just a reminder that he leads the league in field goals (yes that is more a sign of our offense not scoring TD's) but he also leads the league in 50+ yard field goals and despite his two different 2 miss games, is still middle of the road in overall accuracy. It was a crappy game, but its amazing how so many want to just kick him to the curb after years of being one of the more accurate kickers in the league (while kicking in a relatively hostile weather environment). I agree and yes his miss cost us the game and he's struggled in some games this season, but I don't think we should forget that he has been solid for us for years, if we say cut him, or drop him, or trade him, after a couple rough games, is a bit reactionary. IMO Gould has earned some slack. Cry about the couple games he either cost us or contributed to a loss but forget about all the games he's won us is kinda short sighted. It's a game we thought we would win, knew we should have won, and the loss stings, I get that. Have we forgotten the turmoil of trying to find a solid dependable kicker. Before we got Gould it was a nightmare every kick even the simple ones were an adventure. Kickers like any other players can have down games, months, or more. Also keep in mind we cut our long snapper as well recently wasn't that this past week? Kicking FG's and XP's is a precision play where timing is huge. When you change long snappers it takes time to get that continuity and comfort and trust that everyone's doing their part right. We had the luxury in the pas of having Pat Mannely who was one of the best long snappers in the game retire after last year. You don't just toss someone in there and expect it all to gel immediately. I didn't get a chance to see the game so I don't know if it was just a kick that Robbie missed and the snap and hold was clean or not. So I'm just talking in general. I'm willing to cut Robbie some slack because I feel he's earned it. That said at the end of the season if he continues to struggle I could see restructuring and I don't think Robbie's the kind of guy who would not be willing to work with us if it can help the team. But to have a kicker who's been gold for you for years has a couple bad games and the lynch mob comes out chanting cut him I think is a bit extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Before we got Gould it was a nightmare every kick even the simple ones were an adventure. Kickers like any other players can have down games, months, or more. Also keep in mind we cut our long snapper as well recently wasn't that this past week? Kicking FG's and XP's is a precision play where timing is huge. When you change long snappers it takes time to get that continuity and comfort and trust that everyone's doing their part right. i have seen excellent kickers over the decades suddenly hit the wall and not pull out of the death spiral. is it physical or mental? sometimes both but usually mental for whatever reason (they are a little flaky to begin with) and i agree with this sentiment. soldier field is a challenge to find one with consistency, but... you pull the leash tighter on him. if his consistency keeps wavering you have to move on. you absolutely can not afford a kicker you can't depend on. it changes the entire aspect of your offense and game strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50england50 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 He possibly cost us 2 games. If he made the kick he missed in Minnesota we possibly would have won the game or had a better chance. So we could be 7-5 and by beating Minnesota in 2 weeks we would have made the playoffs if we win out. I now there are a lot of ifs but for a kicker that can't kick touchbacks and misses important field goals coupled with the large salary for the next 2 years I'm sorry I would move on unless he restructures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted December 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 agreed. but I think most are saying it due to his 4.1 mil cap hit next year not solely based on performance. I have faith in Robbie and think he will respond with usual Robbie play. Understand the cost component but I also argue the differential impact is not that significant. Plus I thought Gould was actually paid 2.9M (vs. the 4M being thrown around...I presume that is the cap figure). I don't want to be the Steelers or go back to times where we didn't have a kicker we could rely on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted December 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 He possibly cost us 2 games. If he made the kick he missed in Minnesota we possibly would have won the game or had a better chance. So we could be 7-5 and by beating Minnesota in 2 weeks we would have made the playoffs if we win out. I now there are a lot of ifs but for a kicker that can't kick touchbacks and misses important field goals coupled with the large salary for the next 2 years I'm sorry I would move on unless he restructures. I really think the only game you can put on him is this game. That said, he's been on the right side before, including nailing some pretty long clutch field goals (that includes this year). While Gould's misses were bad, I am not going to ignore our inability to execute in the red zone anymore. It is something that has to get cleaned up. I gave passes when our playmakers were out and gave passes when we went up against strong D's, but this past week it was our playcalling and execution that really got us down their. That said, while I want to blame us, i also realize their is a very valid excuse regarding poor timing. Bottom line though, guys got to make plays and we didn't execute all over the place, especially offensively (and on ST) yesterday. Cutler with some big plays missed (and by the way, I don't expect him to hit every throw when a guy is beat...it isn't that easy to throw a 50 yard pass on the time...but some of you seem to think he should hit every one...I completely disagree but he should have had roughly 2 of the 4 big plays, imo). Bears receivers had some costly drops. I can specifically remember Alshon with two costly ones and Langford had one as well. All were the variety that moved chains and/or put us in a position to score more points. Our poor execution on the screen pass that led to the pick 6. Jeffrey, on one of the deep balls, didn't hit his stride (which very well could have been why it wasn't a TD). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Just a reminder that he leads the league in field goals (yes that is more a sign of our offense not scoring TD's) but he also leads the league in 50+ yard field goals and despite his two different 2 miss games, is still middle of the road in overall accuracy. It was a crappy game, but its amazing how so many want to just kick him to the curb after years of being one of the more accurate kickers in the league (while kicking in a relatively hostile weather environment). Hadn't seen anyone wanting to cut him right now but I just woke up so maybe I missed the big discussion. I said he had lost it and got smacked backwards. Reality is he missed two relatively easy kicks in the same manner, by pulling through the kick. The first seemed like a bad snap, a little wide of the holder, but it was pulled back in and placed in the what looks like the same spot as the second kick he missed. When I see someone repeat his kicking mistakes like that he's lost something, doesn't matter if it's a free kick in the EPL, La Liga, or NFL. What's wrong with Gould is correctable, why it's wrong is unknown. Timing with the new snapper? Injury we don't know abot? Worst case is something else like a mental block? Next year his cap hit is $4.1million. According to http://overthecap.com/position/kicker/2016/ that makes him the highest paid kicker in the NFL in 2016. I don't care what position you are playing on the field, if you are the highest paid in the NFL you should perform like one of the best. I fail to see how this is any different from how we discuss Jeffrey's future contract since it's fair game to consider his performance and his injuries into the calculation. Do we keep Antrelle Rolle's $3mil cap hit next year based on age and performance? Jerome Bushrod is another aging player who merits the same discussion. If he's doing his job right I fully expect the GM to bring in some serious competition to camp next year. I don't fall into the group that this automatically means we can't find another good kicker. I'm also not in the group that automatically assume's Gould will overcome these issues. He's average in FG made %, and he's near the bottom of the league in TBs despite being 9th in KO attempts. Can't blame the snapper for the lack of TBs and being 34 years old next season it's not like his leg should get stronger. On a side note, kicker salaries are an odd lot. Chance are in 2016 you either make $1mil or less (11 players), or you make over $3mil (10 players). There's only 5 making between $1mil to $3mil in 2016. This adds up to many kickers in that middle bracket being FA next year, including a young kicker named Justin Tucker who has been automatic inside 40yds this season and leads the league in TBs. The only category Gould has him beat is 50+ yards but that is a broad brush because there is a big difference between 50yds and 59yds. (based off this site http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html...&sort=kotb) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted December 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Hadn't seen anyone wanting to cut him right now but I just woke up so maybe I missed the big discussion. I said he had lost it and got smacked backwards. Reality is he missed two relatively easy kicks in the same manner, by pulling through the kick. The first seemed like a bad snap, a little wide of the holder, but it was pulled back in and placed in the what looks like the same spot as the second kick he missed. When I see someone repeat his kicking mistakes like that he's lost something, doesn't matter if it's a free kick in the EPL, La Liga, or NFL. What's wrong with Gould is correctable, why it's wrong is unknown. Timing with the new snapper? Injury we don't know abot? Worst case is something else like a mental block? Next year his cap hit is $4.1million. According to http://overthecap.com/position/kicker/2016/ that makes him the highest paid kicker in the NFL in 2016. I don't care what position you are playing on the field, if you are the highest paid in the NFL you should perform like one of the best. I fail to see how this is any different from how we discuss Jeffrey's future contract since it's fair game to consider his performance and his injuries into the calculation. Do we keep Antrelle Rolle's $3mil cap hit next year based on age and performance? Jerome Bushrod is another aging player who merits the same discussion. If he's doing his job right I fully expect the GM to bring in some serious competition to camp next year. I don't fall into the group that this automatically means we can't find another good kicker. I'm also not in the group that automatically assume's Gould will overcome these issues. He's average in FG made %, and he's near the bottom of the league in TBs despite being 9th in KO attempts. Can't blame the snapper for the lack of TBs and being 34 years old next season it's not like his leg should get stronger. On a side note, kicker salaries are an odd lot. Chance are in 2016 you either make $1mil or less (11 players), or you make over $3mil (10 players). There's only 5 making between $1mil to $3mil in 2016. This adds up to many kickers in that middle bracket being FA next year, including a young kicker named Justin Tucker who has been automatic inside 40yds this season and leads the league in TBs. The only category Gould has him beat is 50+ yards but that is a broad brush because there is a big difference between 50yds and 59yds. (based off this site http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html...&sort=kotb) In the game thread a bunch of people wanted to cut him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted December 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Hadn't seen anyone wanting to cut him right now but I just woke up so maybe I missed the big discussion. I said he had lost it and got smacked backwards. Reality is he missed two relatively easy kicks in the same manner, by pulling through the kick. The first seemed like a bad snap, a little wide of the holder, but it was pulled back in and placed in the what looks like the same spot as the second kick he missed. When I see someone repeat his kicking mistakes like that he's lost something, doesn't matter if it's a free kick in the EPL, La Liga, or NFL. What's wrong with Gould is correctable, why it's wrong is unknown. Timing with the new snapper? Injury we don't know abot? Worst case is something else like a mental block? Next year his cap hit is $4.1million. According to http://overthecap.com/position/kicker/2016/ that makes him the highest paid kicker in the NFL in 2016. I don't care what position you are playing on the field, if you are the highest paid in the NFL you should perform like one of the best. I fail to see how this is any different from how we discuss Jeffrey's future contract since it's fair game to consider his performance and his injuries into the calculation. Do we keep Antrelle Rolle's $3mil cap hit next year based on age and performance? Jerome Bushrod is another aging player who merits the same discussion. If he's doing his job right I fully expect the GM to bring in some serious competition to camp next year. I don't fall into the group that this automatically means we can't find another good kicker. I'm also not in the group that automatically assume's Gould will overcome these issues. He's average in FG made %, and he's near the bottom of the league in TBs despite being 9th in KO attempts. Can't blame the snapper for the lack of TBs and being 34 years old next season it's not like his leg should get stronger. On a side note, kicker salaries are an odd lot. Chance are in 2016 you either make $1mil or less (11 players), or you make over $3mil (10 players). There's only 5 making between $1mil to $3mil in 2016. This adds up to many kickers in that middle bracket being FA next year, including a young kicker named Justin Tucker who has been automatic inside 40yds this season and leads the league in TBs. The only category Gould has him beat is 50+ yards but that is a broad brush because there is a big difference between 50yds and 59yds. (based off this site http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html...&sort=kotb) Tucker, is in my opinion, the best kicker in the league. That said, he's also less accurate than Gould (IIRC) this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Tucker, is in my opinion, the best kicker in the league. That said, he's also less accurate than Gould (IIRC) this year. For Kickers, you can't just look at % without context. Tucker has missed 6 of his 7 beyond 50, and only 1 inside 50 (including XPs). Gould has missed 5 inside 50 and 1 beyond. The FGs and XPs are only part of the story. Tucker leads the league in touchbacks with 88.3% of his kickoffs going for a touchback and Gould is near the bottom at 48.3%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 For Kickers, you can't just look at % without context. Tucker has missed 6 of his 7 beyond 50, and only 1 inside 50 (including XPs). Gould has missed 5 inside 50 and 1 beyond. The FGs and XPs are only part of the story. Tucker leads the league in touchbacks with 88.3% of his kickoffs going for a touchback and Gould is near the bottom at 48.3%. Exactly. My reservations about Gould are his $$$ and his kick offs. If he addresses those issues, I'm fine with keeping him around. I personally don't think any kicker is worth $4 million and I doubt the Bears brass intend to pay him that. Not sure how much of that is real money vs. cap hit so that might change my opinion. And then I'd hate Emery even more if he left us with dead money on a damn kicker. Regardless, he makes game winning kicks for the money he's costing or he's not worth it. He let us down this weekend big time and it was my damn birthday! Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 The drop off can come fast... I love GOuld. Always will. But if he's lost something, it might be time to move on. Le'ts give him the rest of the season to see what he's got. If he's not doing better than run of the mill, the cost is prohibitive. We all know what he's done and what he did. It's what he will do or what he is now that is worrisome. Ursula Andress looked great in "Dr. No". Now, not so much... Exactly. My reservations about Gould are his $$$ and his kick offs. If he addresses those issues, I'm fine with keeping him around. I personally don't think any kicker is worth $4 million and I doubt the Bears brass intend to pay him that. Not sure how much of that is real money vs. cap hit so that might change my opinion. And then I'd hate Emery even more if he left us with dead money on a damn kicker. Regardless, he makes game winning kicks for the money he's costing or he's not worth it. He let us down this weekend big time and it was my damn birthday! Ha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Exactly. My reservations about Gould are his $$$ and his kick offs. If he addresses those issues, I'm fine with keeping him around. I personally don't think any kicker is worth $4 million and I doubt the Bears brass intend to pay him that. Not sure how much of that is real money vs. cap hit so that might change my opinion. And then I'd hate Emery even more if he left us with dead money on a damn kicker. Regardless, he makes game winning kicks for the money he's costing or he's not worth it. He let us down this weekend big time and it was my damn birthday! Ha! 2016 Gould base salary $3mil, bonuses $1.1 mil, cap hit $4.1mil, dead money if he's cut prior to June 1st $1.2mil. http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/chicago-bears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 2016 Gould base salary $3mil, bonuses $1.1 mil, cap hit $4.1mil, dead money if he's cut prior to June 1st $1.2mil. http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/chicago-bears Thanks. Looks like this puts him third on the kicker scale. http://overthecap.com/position/kicker Too much money for a guy who misses clutch kicks on my birthday and can't get the ball into the end zone from the damn 35 yard line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Thanks. Looks like this puts him third on the kicker scale. http://overthecap.com/position/kicker Too much money for a guy who misses clutch kicks on my birthday and can't get the ball into the end zone from the damn 35 yard line. Yeah, too high for what he has given us this year. He hasn't been entirely bad, but we can't afford to have the Kicker be the 7th highest paid player on the roster (2016). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 8, 2015 Report Share Posted December 8, 2015 Ursula Andress looked great in "Dr. No". Now, not so much... Damn it dude. You said the above so I just had to Google it. OH MY GOD. You're so right. She's a mess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackerDog Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Anybody still feel like defending a $4 million dollar kicker who lost two games in a row for us? Pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bears4Ever_34 Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 The Bears will have a new kicker next year. You can almost guarantee that. Hopefully a new punter as well. I can't stand Odonnell and his weak ass leg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 The Bears will have a new kicker next year. You can almost guarantee that. Hopefully a new punter as well. I can't standw Odonnell and his weak ass leg. The Bears depend on having a great kicker, but the old good as Gould has checked out. Time to hang him up. His head is now out of it. Can he get it back? Not worth 4 million for that head game when they can pay a young Gould that is hungry to make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Anybody still feel like defending a $4 million dollar kicker who lost two games in a row for us? Pathetic. He needs to go, this team is not good enough to miss so many kicks. This week's was farther, but it was not even close, it was literally kicked to the right and missed by 5 yards. More like way wide right. What sucks is every game we are now being outkicked. Gould misses, Walsh hits and we lose to Minnesota. This week it was Hopkins. Last week he beat himself, with 2 misses when we only needed 1 to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Thanks. Looks like this puts him third on the kicker scale. http://overthecap.com/position/kicker Too much money for a guy who misses clutch kicks on my birthday and can't get the ball into the end zone from the damn 35 yard line. My birthday was yesterday as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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