Bigger Need: Oline or Defense?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

The defense has played poorly but the oline has been brutal. Jay was crushed again this week and the good news is, he still is largely playing smart football, however, this was the 2nd street week Long had a brutal block that led to a quick sack and fumble. On top of the 5 sacks this week (and similar to past weeks) the penalties by our oline absolutely killed momentum and big plays. This is a totally different football game if we aren't consistently negating big plays with penalties (not to mention killing momentum).

 

I'd argue the defense is bad (and it is...scheme could only cover up so much for the lack of talent) but man the oline is playing horrendous football (and this is with a scheme that is largely well designed to minimize the time a QB is dropping back and that focuses on rushing so a defense can't just guess pass). They need a significant infusion of talent.

 

At this point, we have to ask if Grassu is a bust or if they truly think he can get strong enough (and that is what he needs). He is getting absolutely mauled. Long is stinking it up. Its bad.

 

LB corps and secondary need playmakers too. Pace, Fox, Gase and Fangio have their work cut out for them.

[lemonej]

After Thanksgiving night I was all for getting a top cornerback or Ilb or safety. These are are still primary needs but an offensive tackle is priority now and moving long back inside will allow you to continue to develop Grasu and get Patrick Omg off the field because the 3 of them together are a train wreck!

[Bears4Ever_34]

As John Fox would say, "It's all a problem."

 

I would say though that ILB is their biggest issue right now. They have no starting ILB's. I also think that if they move Kyle Long back to guard, he should be fine. We know Slauson is a quality guard, and I still like what Leno has been able to do this year as well. Faboluje is an interesting prospect.. They have some guys on that O-Line that could still have futures here, and I didn't even mention Grasu.

 

That said, they have to add more talent to that group next year. There is no question about it.

[CrackerDog]

As John Fox would say, "It's all a problem."

 

I would say though that ILB is their biggest issue right now. They have no starting ILB's. I also think that if they move Kyle Long back to guard, he should be fine. We know Slauson is a quality guard, and I still like what Leno has been able to do this year as well. Faboluje is an interesting prospect.. They have some guys on that O-Line that could still have futures here, and I didn't even mention Grasu.

 

That said, they have to add more talent to that group next year. There is no question about it.

 

LB is a big problem. Depends on what Pace is able to do in FA as to what we go after in the draft. I could see us taking a offensive tackle, linebacker or QB there, depending on what falls to us.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

So is Grassu the worst center you've ever seen? I don't think I've ever seen someone as bad as him at the center position (a position you normally don't notice that much). I notice him getting mauled all the time?

 

And in Long's case, why would he be a better LT than a RT? Is he getting beat lately because of strength (aren't RT's typically more maulers vs. your LT who is more athletic?). I think you put Long back to a spot where he is a plus.

[jason]

No surprises from me. OL is a bigger issue because without OL, the rest of the offense fails. Without ILB talent, it is still possible the secondary makes a tackle.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

No surprises from me. OL is a bigger issue because without OL, the rest of the offense fails. Without ILB talent, it is still possible the secondary makes a tackle.

I put ILB as much lower need cause I don't see ILB as a defensive playmaker in a 3-4. I view an elite OLB as the defensive playmaker in that defense or a playmaker in the secondary as higher needs. Do we need an ILB, absolutely, but I don't want to use a top 10 pick on it (if we do really pick top 10). I think we target a defensive playmaker in FA, although I suppose we could always pivot and use the FA money on a tackle instead. I expect us to pursue Berry as well. Pairing him with Amos gives us a very strong back-end of the secondary.

[jason]

I put ILB as much lower need cause I don't see ILB as a defensive playmaker in a 3-4. I view an elite OLB as the defensive playmaker in that defense or a playmaker in the secondary as higher needs. Do we need an ILB, absolutely, but I don't want to use a top 10 pick on it (if we do really pick top 10). I think we target a defensive playmaker in FA, although I suppose we could always pivot and use the FA money on a tackle instead. I expect us to pursue Berry as well. Pairing him with Amos gives us a very strong back-end of the secondary.

 

 

Yeah, for the most part I agree. I've long said LBs, particularly ILBs, can be complimentary and be successful as long as they're smart players. In a 3-4 they're a bit more important in my mind, because they have to be playmakers as the DL is holding things up, but in general the playmakers in a 3-4 are OLBs. Honestly, I hope the Bears try to beef things up on the DL like they did with Washington and Traylor. Get huge, immovable, fairly athletic guys at both DEs, and then get multiple playmakers at LB. THAT would be where ILBs become more important than normal.

[Bears4Ever_34]

I put ILB as much lower need cause I don't see ILB as a defensive playmaker in a 3-4. I view an elite OLB as the defensive playmaker in that defense or a playmaker in the secondary as higher needs. Do we need an ILB, absolutely, but I don't want to use a top 10 pick on it (if we do really pick top 10). I think we target a defensive playmaker in FA, although I suppose we could always pivot and use the FA money on a tackle instead. I expect us to pursue Berry as well. Pairing him with Amos gives us a very strong back-end of the secondary.

Patrick Willis or Navarro Bowman were pretty good playmakers for Fangio's defense in SF.

 

I don't know if there is a singular position on the defense that is any more important than another. You just need quality everywhere, and right now, the Bears have zero quality ILB's on the roster.

 

And I'm not necessarily advocating they need to draft an ILB with the first pick, either. They have way too many needs to be picky about one position. I want them to go with the best available guy.

 

If it were up to me, I'd rather spend my FA money on the offensive line, so that they can focus on drafting those play makers they desperately need on defense.

[adam]

Bigger need really doesn't hit the problem, amount of need may be a better way to show it. With 2 above average acquisitions (FA or draft) and the OLine is much improved. You would be lucky to see the same on the entire defense. We probably need 5 upgrades on defense to get to the same level. So it is a tough balance. We really need to be aggressive in free agency to address some needs and then plug the rest in the draft. I feel like have to address 9 spots in the starting 22: OTx2, C, DEx2, ILBx2, CB, S.

[adam]

So is Grassu the worst center you've ever seen? I don't think I've ever seen someone as bad as him at the center position (a position you normally don't notice that much). I notice him getting mauled all the time?

 

And in Long's case, why would he be a better LT than a RT? Is he getting beat lately because of strength (aren't RT's typically more maulers vs. your LT who is more athletic?). I think you put Long back to a spot where he is a plus.

I saw someone mention that it sometimes comes down to what their dominant hand is (similar to a skateboarder where the slide is more natural one way).

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Patrick Willis or Navarro Bowman were pretty good playmakers for Fangio's defense in SF.

 

I don't know if there is a singular position on the defense that is any more important than another. You just need quality everywhere, and right now, the Bears have zero quality ILB's on the roster.

 

And I'm not necessarily advocating they need to draft an ILB with the first pick, either. They have way too many needs to be picky about one position. I want them to go with the best available guy.

 

If it were up to me, I'd rather spend my FA money on the offensive line, so that they can focus on drafting those play makers they desperately need on defense.

Fair points and as a whole I agree with this premise. Although I argue, find the best fit possible in FA and than worry about the other fit in the draft (while still accounting for BPA).

[AZ54]

Yeah, for the most part I agree. I've long said LBs, particularly ILBs, can be complimentary and be successful as long as they're smart players. In a 3-4 they're a bit more important in my mind, because they have to be playmakers as the DL is holding things up, but in general the playmakers in a 3-4 are OLBs. Honestly, I hope the Bears try to beef things up on the DL like they did with Washington and Traylor. Get huge, immovable, fairly athletic guys at both DEs, and then get multiple playmakers at LB. THAT would be where ILBs become more important than normal.

 

1) We don't have a dominant OLB and we likely won't have one in 2016 via FA or the draft. Likewise we do not have a dominant Dline although they are good and should see some improvement in talent this offseason. We will likely do something at ILB in FA but we could use more help than one player and after Trevathan there is a talent drop off.

 

2) I grew up watching highlights of Butkus blow up RBs. Watched Singletary in the 80's dominate the box area. Later I watched Urlacher's speed dominate offenses by making plays sideline to sideline and sometimes 20 yards downfield.

 

3) I want another great ILB. You can't predict greatness but I'll settle for a really good ILB. This is the draft where our biggest need (two ILB) among all positions meets 3 players who are ranked anywhere from #5 to #20, on CBSSports all three are ranked #13 or higher.

 

4) No point looking a gift horse in the mouth as far as I'm concerned. By that I mean the probability that we will get one of those 3 players where we draft is very high. That gives us some assurance that we can use FA to prioritize other needs like Oline, S, and Dline. Given all the cap space we have I don't think that precludes us from pursuing Trevathan either. If one of these 3 ILB are there we take him and now with Trevathan ILB goes from biggest weakness to a strength. In the unlikely event all 3 are gone when we pick then somebody fell to us and drafting him should be a no-brainer.

[Mongo3451]

Fix what can be fixed, patch what can't. That being said, I go OL. If we use some FA money and our high draft pick, the OL is complete. Once the line it's fixed, our defense becomes instantly better through sustained drives, time of possession and points scored. Points scored alone allows Fangio to blitz a little more than we have seen.

 

Now that the offense is fixed, spend the rest of the draft and FA on defenders and TE.

[Chitownhustla]

Fix what can be fixed, patch what can't. That being said, I go OL. If we use some FA money and our high draft pick, the OL is complete. Once the line it's fixed, our defense becomes instantly better through sustained drives, time of possession and points scored. Points scored alone allows Fangio to blitz a little more than we have seen.

 

Now that the offense is fixed, spend the rest of the draft and FA on defenders and TE.

 

 

I agree with this train of thought. I think if you fix the Oline the Offense could be a real threat, if White pans out the Bears could have a complete offense with only upgrading the Oline. Everything with the oline depends on what they do with Long.

 

I would think they move him back to G but there may be a possibility of a move to LT. If they move him back to G here is what I would do

 

RT = FA - Andre Smith??? only 28 years old

RG = Long = pro bowl

C = 55 = hopefully with a year of weight training he will not be pushed around

LG = Slauson

LT = Old Miss Tackle or ND Tackle, if we draft in the top 10

 

LT is the most expensive Oline position, draft him and not pay too much in FA.

 

 

 

On defense, if a Vonn Miller type OLB hits the market I feel you have to go after him(not sure he will hit FA). Pair him with Pernell and you have an insane outside combo. Then draft in the 2nd round a Inside back like Scooby Wright.

If you don't get a crack at Miller the other LB from Denver would be a good signing. Paring him with Scooby would be a great LB combo. Then you ride out with Houston and Young paired with Pernell.