Eagles just moved up to #2...

['TD']

Yeah, rather than debate position vs BPA, Id like to see more talk about just how good (or not) Zeke is. I havent seen enough to have a good feel for it, so I can only contribute on the general topic - i.e. is it smart to draft a great RB at #11. I'd rather hear about how great (or not) he actually is. Thoughts?

I'd rather have him than any of the defensive players that could drop, other than the DBs. I'm also not overwhelmed by the tackles that could be available. I just don't think he will be there, but if he is..

 

When you see Adrian Peterson available, you draft him. If you see Zeke available, you draft him.

[scs787]

He's really good. Marshall Faulk is the comp I've read that I like the most.

['TD']

He's really good. Marshall Faulk is the comp I've read that I like the most.

The only current RB that was as much of a sure-fire hit as him was Peterson. At the time, Peterson even had injury concerns, which makes Zeke pretty much a good pick by anyone that picks him at any slot.

 

 

[dawhizz]

He's not as fast as AP or Faulk. He's just not. I'm not even sure he's as fast as a healthy Gurley. I see more of a Frank Gore type back - good power, great vision, good at following his blocks, can catch and block. He's going to be a really good RB in the league.

[adam]

Paxton Lynch drawing some attention, possibly sneaking into the top 10? That would be awesome for us if 3x QB's go in the top 10.

[jason]

I don't think it's shocking. We don't have a proven world beating RB, so if you think Zeke is one of those you take him.

 

Every GM is clear about not drafting for need. It's cool you don't agree, but to be "shocked" is kinda crazy.

 

The problem is, you guys are all misconstruing the BPA vs. need debate. Absolutely none of the GMs are advocating pure BPA. None. They would not draft year after year of the same player because that guy was the #1 guy in the draft class. That is simply not up for debate.

 

As a result, there simply has to be some amount of BPA and need put together. At that point you have to determine how much better someone like Elliott is over a comparable player the Bears will draft. The problem with that is, even the great Bill Polian admits to it being a coin flip. So whatever value someone is given, it's awfully naive to think you can absolutely nail the next great Montana, Taylor, Pace, etc. just because he's highest rated on your board that year. Lord knows we as Bears fans have seen our fair share of #1 picks bust. If you ignore all that and draft on BPA anyway, you're flipping the coin that the player selected is a HOFer, and you're neglecting a position of greater need...unless, of course, that BPA #1 player is also at a position of need.

 

Thinking it through logically doesn't really make a case where the Bears should target Elliot. Langford showed enough promise last year that the Bears should see what they have invested in him before reinvesting in the position and leaving the cupboards bare at other areas.

 

[jason]

I don't think it's THAT crazy. I think you said it yourself after the Forte thing that Langford and Carey weren't THAT good. For a team that is gonna want to run the ball a lot, having someone that is THAT good makes sense

 

Did I say that? I thought I just said Forte was awesome, and I much prefer him over the others. Hell, I didn't even want to draft Langford, because I felt Forte had more tread left on the tires.

[jason]

Bill Polian has him ranking as the BEST prospect......The number #1 ranked player. I didnt know he ranked him so high until someone posted it here. How would drafting him be shocking??? I would love to have a AP or LT ype running back for the next 8 years.

 

I dont see him dropping to us anyways so you wont have to be upset.

 

Again. I'd love to have the next AP or LT as well, but Bill Polian himself said the draft is roughly a coin flip. Even the #1 rated guy. 50/50 odds. Why take the 50/50 odds on a position you don't really need? It makes more sense to skip that position since the Bears already have a player who represents odds greater than 50/50. Use that coin flip elsewhere. Especially considering the Bears have had less than 50% success for quite some time.

 

Kick ass for a few years? Sure, you've proven yourself. Go and get the BPA guys because you're likely to be right.

['TD']

Again. I'd love to have the next AP or LT as well, but Bill Polian himself said the draft is roughly a coin flip. Even the #1 rated guy. 50/50 odds. Why take the 50/50 odds on a position you don't really need? It makes more sense to skip that position since the Bears already have a player who represents odds greater than 50/50. Use that coin flip elsewhere. Especially considering the Bears have had less than 50% success for quite some time.

 

Kick ass for a few years? Sure, you've proven yourself. Go and get the BPA guys because you're likely to be right.

I would argue he is likely over a 50/50 because some players just transcend.

 

But let's say it is 50/50 for every position.

 

Let's say DL and LB is out, as the upgrade over the current players vs the current talent available isn't that great necessarily, especially when you add in the 50/50.

 

We end up with a possible T, RB, or DB dropping.

 

We don't know necessarily where Leno will go, but he wasn't bad last year. Langford is someone that I like his running style, but he wasn't great last year and the Bears just lost one of the top runningbacks in the game. Add to that, the Bears offense now flows through the position. All the DB's are bad and any upgrade will be better.

 

That leaves potential and floors of a draft pick vs the floors of current talent in this system. For me, Stanley's floor is a bust. His potential doesn't reach as high(if he even falls) over Leno, as Zekes potential over Langford. Top prospects at RB can excel despite an average LT, even tho top talent rarely arrives at the positoin. Zeke's floor is higher than a bust imho and a better prospect than Stanley imho because Stanley is a guy projected due to his measurables.

 

I'm hoping for a DB to fall, but I would be happy if the Bears some how got Zeke, and I wouldn't be against the OL options considering where the Bears are picking..

 

The likely picks that would annoy me the most is DT, i think that's just ridiculous given what is on the team, LB or DE because I think the upgrade ceiling really won't be higher than the talent on the team.

 

Edit: I'm just hoping that Zeke, a DB, or Stanley falls even if I am not high on him.

[jason]

Yeah, rather than debate position vs BPA, Id like to see more talk about just how good (or not) Zeke is. I havent seen enough to have a good feel for it, so I can only contribute on the general topic - i.e. is it smart to draft a great RB at #11. I'd rather hear about how great (or not) he actually is. Thoughts?

 

Good point. What about him?

 

1. He may not be the right fit for the Bears. It seems that any sort of trouble-maker is gone, and he seems to fit the bill of a Terrell Owens type. How else does someone explain him shitting all over the coaching staff after the MSU game and then saying he wouldn't come back to OSU the next year? That's a serious red flag.

2. Everyone talks about the flaws of Derrick Henry, but when you watch the Elliott tape, there really isn't a lot of shiftiness in there either. It's one cut, OL opens huge hole, and he outruns everyone downhill.

3. He's not really a very good blocker. He's more of a "get in the way"-blocker. And sometimes he doesn't pick up the assignment. When he does engage, he rarely locks on, and he has a bad habit of lunging and dipping his head. The Virginia Tech and Notre Dame games showed that pretty well. Speaking of the VT game...

4. He's not someone to use in the return game.

5. Others have mentioned wanting a RB that can be split out wide. Well, they did it with him at OSU, but he's a far cry from Forte. It didn't look natural at all when I saw him lined up like a WR.

6. I honestly don't think his vision is that great. He often takes unnecessary cuts, and also end up running right at guys. In college that's cool, because he's probably one of the best athletes on the field at all times. He won't get away with it as much in the pros.

 

He's no doubt one of the top 2 RBs in this draft, but I don't think he's the next AP. I think he'll be a good pro RB, but not great.

[jason]

I would argue he is likely over a 50/50 because some players just transcend.

 

But let's say it is 50/50 for every position.

 

Let's say DL and LB is out, as the upgrade over the current players vs the current talent available isn't that great necessarily, especially when you add in the 50/50.

 

We end up with a possible T, RB, or DB dropping.

 

We don't know necessarily where Leno will go, but he wasn't bad last year. Langford is someone that I like his running style, but he wasn't great last year and the Bears just lost one of the top runningbacks in the game. Add to that, the Bears offense now flows through the position. All the DB's are bad and any upgrade will be better.

 

That leaves potential and floors of a draft pick vs the floors of current talent in this system. For me, Stanley's floor is a bust. His potential doesn't reach as high(if he even falls) over Leno, as Zekes potential over Langford. Top prospects at RB can excel despite an average LT, even tho top talent rarely arrives at the positoin. Zeke's floor is higher than a bust imho and a better prospect than Stanley imho because Stanley is a guy projected due to his measurables.

 

I'm hoping for a DB to fall, but I would be happy if the Bears some how got Zeke, and I wouldn't be against the OL options considering where the Bears are picking..

 

The likely picks that would annoy me the most is DT, i think that's just ridiculous given what is on the team, LB or DE because I think the upgrade ceiling really won't be higher than the talent on the team.

 

Edit: I'm just hoping that Zeke, a DB, or Stanley falls even if I am not high on him.

 

This way of thinking I like better. But for starters, I don't know I agree with your initial ruling out of DL or LB. Again, 50/50. We don't know if Leonard Floyd is the next great OLB. But let's say he's not. I think Buckner is easily better than any DE the Bears have on roster. So I'd say that leaves us with DE, T, RB, or DB dropping.

 

The bolded part I disagree with, but can wholeheartedly respect. I think Stanley's floor is somewhere around Leno's ceiling. Barring injury, Stanley will be a good to great pass-blocking LT in the league for a while. I also don't like the idea that you're throwing out about outstanding RBs succeeding despite OL deficiencies, because the opposite can be said as well.

['TD']

This way of thinking I like better. But for starters, I don't know I agree with your initial ruling out of DL or LB. Again, 50/50. We don't know if Leonard Floyd is the next great OLB. But let's say he's not. I think Buckner is easily better than any DE the Bears have on roster. So I'd say that leaves us with DE, T, RB, or DB dropping.

 

The bolded part I disagree with, but can wholeheartedly respect. I think Stanley's floor is somewhere around Leno's ceiling. Barring injury, Stanley will be a good to great pass-blocking LT in the league for a while. I also don't like the idea that you're throwing out about outstanding RBs succeeding despite OL deficiencies, because the opposite can be said as well.

The opposite can be said, but we have had the benefit of Forte, while seeing AP dominate every year, and teams like the Packers and Lions struggle to find a RB.

 

We've been lucky to see the best and worst, and that's a reason I don't undervalue a top RB prospect. We've been lucky enough to be able to lean on Forte when everything else was wrong on the offense and they are heading into uncharted territory with a run heavy offense presently. I'm from Ohio, so I have bias, and why I haven't really commented on Zeke, but I think there is enough prevailing reasons to be positive if he was picked.

 

I may be a little ignorant on the 3-4 still but I like Houston, McPhee, and Young to get pressure. I'm way more worried about the coverage from he secondary.

 

Edit: one thing on the bolded part, I do think Stanley's ceiling is over Leno's. What I meant to say is that the potential ceiling over Leno isn't as high as the ceiling of Zeke over Langford from what we know.

[AZ54]

I like Elliot but I don't see anything that is special about him. He's very good at everything. I totally disagree on the his cuts being as slow as Henry's. You can watch the combine for both and see how they handle the cuts. On some drills with sharp cuts Henry almost comes to a complete stop, Elliot does not. I think he's likely to have a better career than Forte because he's faster but should at least be equal to Forte's production barring injury. I'll live with Elliot at #11 if he's out pick but I just don't think the drop off is too far if we grab a RB in the 3rd Rd. Going beyond that, I think it's wrong to assume we'll just grab any RB in the 5th Rd or later and he'll be nearly as good.

 

From a value perspective I think we should grab a player at another position with #11 and a RB in the 3rd Rd. I don't think 3rd Rd CBs can be as close to 1st Rd CBs. Same goes for OTs. DT might be simply because of the rare talent in this draft.

[bear trap]

The opposite can be said, but we have had the benefit of Forte, while seeing AP dominate every year, and teams like the Packers and Lions struggle to find a RB.

 

We've been lucky to see the best and worst, and that's a reason I don't undervalue a top RB prospect. We've been lucky enough to be able to lean on Forte when everything else was wrong on the offense and they are heading into uncharted territory with a run heavy offense presently. I'm from Ohio, so I have bias, and why I haven't really commented on Zeke, but I think there is enough prevailing reasons to be positive if he was picked.

 

I may be a little ignorant on the 3-4 still but I like Houston, McPhee, and Young to get pressure. I'm way more worried about the coverage from he secondary.

 

Edit: one thing on the bolded part, I do think Stanley's ceiling is over Leno's. What I meant to say is that the potential ceiling over Leno isn't as high as the ceiling of Zeke over Langford from what we know.

Jason, are you a scUM fan or a bama fan cause you sound like it... I have been a buckeye fan since I was old enough to watch football. Ohio state doesn't even win the big ten let alone the national title without Elliot! He gets faster as the game goes on, he gets stronger as the game goes on. I've never seen anything like it except for peterson... Zeke is the best rb OSU has had since Eddie George and to be honest .... he's better! I watched every game I can tell you I knew he'd be great way back when he was coming in for Carlos Hyde in clean up time...Seriously he's like T.O.??? Get the facts! A. It was right after the loss to msu, his first of the year (almost two yrs ) he was emotional and is a young player who knows he could have done more... He had the flu and was in the hospital the night before...the coaches only called 12 running plays I believe on the day... a day that was cold and rainy.. the kids wants to win and wants to carry a team what's not to like about that? Also, OSU offensive line the championship season was almost all new there were no huge holes ... Zeke has a rare mix of vision, power, and speed!

[Stinger226]

Jason, are you a scUM fan or a bama fan cause you sound like it... I have been a buckeye fan since I was old enough to watch football. Ohio state doesn't even win the big ten let alone the national title without Elliot! He gets faster as the game goes on, he gets stronger as the game goes on. I've never seen anything like it except for peterson... Zeke is the best rb OSU has had since Eddie George and to be honest .... he's better! I watched every game I can tell you I knew he'd be great way back when he was coming in for Carlos Hyde in clean up time...Seriously he's like T.O.??? Get the facts! A. It was right after the loss to msu, his first of the year (almost two yrs ) he was emotional and is a young player who knows he could have done more... He had the flu and was in the hospital the night before...the coaches only called 12 running plays I believe on the day... a day that was cold and rainy.. the kids wants to win and wants to carry a team what's not to like about that? Also, OSU offensive line the championship season was almost all new there were no huge holes ... Zeke has a rare mix of vision, power, and speed!

He is the best RB in the draft and if we take him that would add to the team. We read all kinds of opinions but that doesnt mean we know how teams rate players. If he is rated the BPA, I would say we should take him. He is no AP or LT, if he turns out to be a younger Matt Forte, I would say it would have been worth it.

 

If our first round pick turns out to be an all pro type, who adds the most to the team? A stud RB, DE, or edge rusher? I would say if we pick right, an edge rusher adds more wins. A RB would add but it will absolutely be a RBC and not as much as an impact.

[Chitownhustla]

He's not as fast as AP or Faulk. He's just not. I'm not even sure he's as fast as a healthy Gurley. I see more of a Frank Gore type back - good power, great vision, good at following his blocks, can catch and block. He's going to be a really good RB in the league.

 

Faulk was a 4.3 guy. AP is a 4.4 guy.......EZ is a 4.4 guy

[dawhizz]

Faulk was a 4.3 guy. AP is a 4.4 guy.......EZ is a 4.4 guy

 

Faulk ran a 4.28 40 at the combine. Peterson ran a 4.38. Elliott ran a 4.47.

 

[Chitownhustla]

Faulk ran a 4.28 40 at the combine. Peterson ran a 4.38. Elliott ran a 4.47.

 

 

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dspro...7&genpos=RB

 

 

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=7759

 

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/playe...adrian-peterson

 

 

Not sure if these are right but that is where I got my info

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Faulk

 

it says 4.28 and 4.35......why I said he was a 4.3 guy...... 4.28.....4.3.....same thing

 

 

[Chitownhustla]

Again. I'd love to have the next AP or LT as well, but Bill Polian himself said the draft is roughly a coin flip. Even the #1 rated guy. 50/50 odds. Why take the 50/50 odds on a position you don't really need? It makes more sense to skip that position since the Bears already have a player who represents odds greater than 50/50. Use that coin flip elsewhere. Especially considering the Bears have had less than 50% success for quite some time.

 

Kick ass for a few years? Sure, you've proven yourself. Go and get the BPA guys because you're likely to be right.

 

 

The Bears clearly feel there is still a need at RB (they went hard after CJ Anderson). Since there is a 50/50 crap shoot why draft anyone????? Why draft a LT.....there is 50/50 odds. Your argument against drafting EZ because there is 50/50 odds can be applied to any draft choice.

 

 

Some people think Leno will be fine, so if Stanley drops to us why draft him, there is a 50/50 odd that he doesn't pan out.

 

Some people think we are OK with Porter and Fuller at CB, what if Ramsey drops to us.....why draft him 50/50.

 

Some people think we are ok at DE with the Hicks signing....... Bruckner drops to us.....why draft him 50/50

 

Get where Im going with this......

 

The better rated a player is the better chances of hitting. Its plain and simple. Polian rates EZ as the Best....... I see it as he has the best chance of beating the odds.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chitownhustla]

Jason, are you a scUM fan or a bama fan cause you sound like it... I have been a buckeye fan since I was old enough to watch football. Ohio state doesn't even win the big ten let alone the national title without Elliot! He gets faster as the game goes on, he gets stronger as the game goes on. I've never seen anything like it except for peterson... Zeke is the best rb OSU has had since Eddie George and to be honest .... he's better! I watched every game I can tell you I knew he'd be great way back when he was coming in for Carlos Hyde in clean up time...Seriously he's like T.O.??? Get the facts! A. It was right after the loss to msu, his first of the year (almost two yrs ) he was emotional and is a young player who knows he could have done more... He had the flu and was in the hospital the night before...the coaches only called 12 running plays I believe on the day... a day that was cold and rainy.. the kids wants to win and wants to carry a team what's not to like about that? Also, OSU offensive line the championship season was almost all new there were no huge holes ... Zeke has a rare mix of vision, power, and speed!

 

Jason just hates the idea of drafting a RB because that he means the Bears wouldn't draft a LT! lol

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNMRLAs-U0

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stinger226]

The Bears clearly feel there is still a need at RB (they went hard after CJ Anderson). Since there is a 50/50 crap shoot why draft anyone????? Why draft a LT.....there is 50/50 odds. Your argument against drafting EZ because there is 50/50 odds can be applied to any draft choice.

 

 

Some people think Leno will be fine, so if Stanley drops to us why draft him, there is a 50/50 odd that he doesn't pan out.

 

Some people think we are OK with Porter and Fuller at CB, what if Ramsey drops to us.....why draft him 50/50.

 

Some people think we are ok at DE with the Hicks signing....... Bruckner drops to us.....why draft him 50/50

 

Get where Im going with this......

 

The better rated a player is the better chances of hitting. Its plain and simple. Polian rates EZ as the Best....... I see it as he has the best chance of beating the odds.

It the first round player we take is a special player , you just take him, it makes your team better. Lets say Leno rates out as an average LT, we get Stanley and he is up for all pro credits. We will then have overall better play going forward. EZ may be the best player on the board at the time but he is only probably around 8 to 12 best player in the draft. We absolutely make the case for taking anybody I would say except for WR on the team. As far as depth the only other positions we are ok at are, OG and ILB, otherwise it is an open door.

[jason]

The Bears clearly feel there is still a need at RB (they went hard after CJ Anderson). Since there is a 50/50 crap shoot why draft anyone????? Why draft a LT.....there is 50/50 odds. Your argument against drafting EZ because there is 50/50 odds can be applied to any draft choice.

 

 

Some people think Leno will be fine, so if Stanley drops to us why draft him, there is a 50/50 odd that he doesn't pan out.

 

Some people think we are OK with Porter and Fuller at CB, what if Ramsey drops to us.....why draft him 50/50.

 

Some people think we are ok at DE with the Hicks signing....... Bruckner drops to us.....why draft him 50/50

 

Get where Im going with this......

 

The better rated a player is the better chances of hitting. Its plain and simple. Polian rates EZ as the Best....... I see it as he has the best chance of beating the odds.

 

The 50/50 argument applies to all players all positions. But that's why it's smarter to include a healthier dosage of need in there. You miss, and you still have a body at the other position and Langford at RB. You miss with a position you don't need and you now have a body behind Langford, and a gap elsewhere.

 

[jason]

Jason just hates the idea of drafting a RB because that he means the Bears wouldn't draft a LT! lol

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVNMRLAs-U0

 

Or DE. Or CB. Or OLB. All three positions we need much more.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Or DE. Or CB. Or OLB. All three positions we need much more.

The draft grade on the DE / OLB and even CB just don't even compare. Ezekiel is head and shoulders above everyone else. By the way, it is likely a moot point as it seem highly probable that either the current Browns team or the former Browns (Ravens) team drafts Ezekiel.

[jason]

Jason, are you a scUM fan or a bama fan cause you sound like it... I have been a buckeye fan since I was old enough to watch football. Ohio state doesn't even win the big ten let alone the national title without Elliot! He gets faster as the game goes on, he gets stronger as the game goes on. I've never seen anything like it except for peterson... Zeke is the best rb OSU has had since Eddie George and to be honest .... he's better! I watched every game I can tell you I knew he'd be great way back when he was coming in for Carlos Hyde in clean up time...Seriously he's like T.O.??? Get the facts! A. It was right after the loss to msu, his first of the year (almost two yrs ) he was emotional and is a young player who knows he could have done more... He had the flu and was in the hospital the night before...the coaches only called 12 running plays I believe on the day... a day that was cold and rainy.. the kids wants to win and wants to carry a team what's not to like about that? Also, OSU offensive line the championship season was almost all new there were no huge holes ... Zeke has a rare mix of vision, power, and speed!

 

Scum fan? I don't even know what that is.

Alabama fan? No, but I live there. And I'm a huge fan of Henry.

I'm actually a ND fan.

 

Elliott gets better and stronger as the game goes on? That's funny, everyone says the same thing about Henry. Everyone.

 

There may have been extenuating circumstances, but he still reacted very poorly after the game. He threw his coaches under the bus.