Cutty out for a while...

[bowlingtwig]

Oh brother. I use the Rodgers comparison and its 'how dare you'. Then told that Rodgers is in a totally different class. So I guess you proved that point. In fact it's that very comparison how Rodgers is able to produce despite a bad Oline. Problem is when Cutler does this type of play it turns into turnovers a higher percentage of the time.

There's a major difference between the 2 as well that some seem to forget. But it's extremely crucial. Even the great QBs in history have said. Not making excuses for talent or anything because that would be foolish. Rodgers extremely intelligent while Jay isn't and a lot of the times thinks his arm can make up for it. The biggest difference is continuity. Rodgers has basically had the same exact system and hc this whole time. He's also had a few good weapons to throw to as well. He's had that since day 1 of coming into the league. While Jay has had nothing but turnover all of the place. If roles were reversed I seriously doubt Rodgers would be going into the hall of fame like he is at this point

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Hey Alaska....

 

Curious thought here. If you think Cutler sucks so bad, can you answer the following questions?

 

Which years have the Bears had a good OL while Cutler has been in town?

What's the max number of OCs you would consider acceptable during Cutler's tenure, before that number started to hinder success?

Which years have the Bears had a good D while Cutler has been in town?

Which years have the Bears had 2 of the following three good at the same time: OL, D, WRs?

 

I know you don't like him, but you're fooling yourself if you think the results would be any better when, as shown in the link with the play breakdown, there are literally four guys screwing up around Cutler. As I've said many times before, the Bears often present Cutler with a "make the first read and throw it on a 3-step drop or you're going to get sacked, get hit, or have to run." Meanwhile, the upper echelon QBs of the league seemingly have all day to throw, game after game, season after season. You may not like it, but there is a definite correlation.

 

Before I fall into some sort of trap, what type of ground rules are there to this discussion? For example; question one. You ask me when have the Bears had a good OL. I know, in my many, many discussions with you on that very subject that we will never agree on what constitutes a good OLine. Nor will we ever agree with how to build one. So for me to answer that loaded question, I'm being set up for failure.

 

My answer to that question, knowing the subjective nature, is that the team has tried on several occasions to get him the Oline help you thought he deserved. Whether it be through FA (O. Pace, Bushron and Sitton) or drafting (Long, Whitehair or Grasu). They have done it recently with what I outlined just a few days ago. Short of drafting an Olineman in the first round every year, they have not met your expectations. I might add some interesting tidbits of info (besides the discussion we had last year about the Cowboys all 1st round talented Oline and Romo's two injuries) that the Dolphins currently have four 1st round drafted Olinemen and "ranked 28th in run blocking and 24th in pass protection" (Football Outsiders). PFF ranked them 31st last year and dead last the year before. Why is that?

I'm not sure how to answer the question of 'how many OC's is too many' but I can tell you this, in looking for comparisons; Joe Flacco (who is currently paired with Marc Trestman - yes that Marc Trestman) has had four OC coordinators in the last 5 years and gone to the playoffs twice and won the Super Bowl. So I'm not sure how justifying it would be if I said 'more than one'? I might also point out that of the two years Trestman was the HC, Josh McNown looked like a Pro Bowl level QB in his system where Cutler played like...well Cutler.

 

Uhmmm... What was Lovie's forte again? Defense right? Perhaps one of the best defense minded coaches out there(?) It's safe to say that the majority of the Bears' winning seasons these last number of years were due to Lovie Smith's defenses. Jay Cutler played in about 2/3 of those seasons.

 

For the last question, as you tighten the filter of qualifying responses, I'd be remiss to try and assist you in what you seek. Because my answer would be simply; Cutler is an NFL franchise QB making more than NFL franchise QB money so not having everything line up perfectly shouldn't matter. But to you, I know it does.

 

Do me a favor and read the article I attached below. It pretty much outlines all the points you bring up..and then some.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1150532...ever-just-right

[Stinger226]

Before I fall into some sort of trap, what type of ground rules are there to this discussion? For example; question one. You ask me when have the Bears had a good OL. I know, in my many, many discussions with you on that very subject that we will never agree on what constitutes a good OLine. Nor will we ever agree with how to build one. So for me to answer that loaded question, I'm being set up for failure.

 

My answer to that question, knowing the subjective nature, is that the team has tried on several occasions to get him the Oline help you thought he deserved. Whether it be through FA (O. Pace, Bushron and Sitton) or drafting (Long, Whitehair or Grasu). They have done it recently with what I outlined just a few days ago. Short of drafting an Olineman in the first round every year, they have not met your expectations. I might add some interesting tidbits of info (besides the discussion we had last year about the Cowboys all 1st round talented Oline and Romo's two injuries) that the Dolphins currently have four 1st round drafted Olinemen and "ranked 28th in run blocking and 24th in pass protection" (Football Outsiders). PFF ranked them 31st last year and dead last the year before. Why is that?

I'm not sure how to answer the question of 'how many OC's is too many' but I can tell you this, in looking for comparisons; Joe Flacco (who is currently paired with Marc Trestman - yes that Marc Trestman) has had four OC coordinators in the last 5 years and gone to the playoffs twice and won the Super Bowl. So I'm not sure how justifying it would be if I said 'more than one'? I might also point out that of the two years Trestman was the HC, Josh McNown looked like a Pro Bowl level QB in his system where Cutler played like...well Cutler.

 

Uhmmm... What was Lovie's forte again? Defense right? Perhaps one of the best defense minded coaches out there(?) It's safe to say that the majority of the Bears' winning seasons these last number of years were due to Lovie Smith's defenses. Jay Cutler played in about 2/3 of those seasons.

 

For the last question, as you tighten the filter of qualifying responses, I'd be remiss to try and assist you in what you seek. Because my answer would be simply; Cutler is an NFL franchise QB making more than NFL franchise QB money so not having everything line up perfectly shouldn't matter. But to you, I know it does.

 

Do me a favor and read the article I attached below. It pretty much outlines all the points you bring up..and then some.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1150532...ever-just-right

As most people have pointed out, Cutler is a mid tier QB. No one is putting him in the hall of fame. He functions well when he has a good OL, good WRs and a good OC. His faults are when under pressure he makes bad decisions. Most QBs screw up a lot when put under pressure. The fact is Cutler is our best option until we find another one. If we build this right, he can succeed. Your problem is you if you dont like someone, you nikky negative and if you like someone you are loyal to a fault.

HE HAS FAULTS, not one person here argues that, but he has some good points too, which you almost never point out.

The money thing is stupid, most QBs get paid no matter of their worth, that is the nature of the position.

Your entitled to your opinion and most people disagree with your totalitarian hatred, as you stand on a crumbling fault line.

Its funny how your opinions get so much flax on here, you should put a little more thought into your posts and take the blinders off.

[jason]

Before I fall into some sort of trap, what type of ground rules are there to this discussion? For example; question one. You ask me when have the Bears had a good OL. I know, in my many, many discussions with you on that very subject that we will never agree on what constitutes a good OLine. Nor will we ever agree with how to build one. So for me to answer that loaded question, I'm being set up for failure.

 

My answer to that question, knowing the subjective nature, is that the team has tried on several occasions to get him the Oline help you thought he deserved. Whether it be through FA (O. Pace, Bushron and Sitton) or drafting (Long, Whitehair or Grasu). They have done it recently with what I outlined just a few days ago. Short of drafting an Olineman in the first round every year, they have not met your expectations. I might add some interesting tidbits of info (besides the discussion we had last year about the Cowboys all 1st round talented Oline and Romo's two injuries) that the Dolphins currently have four 1st round drafted Olinemen and "ranked 28th in run blocking and 24th in pass protection" (Football Outsiders). PFF ranked them 31st last year and dead last the year before. Why is that?

I'm not sure how to answer the question of 'how many OC's is too many' but I can tell you this, in looking for comparisons; Joe Flacco (who is currently paired with Marc Trestman - yes that Marc Trestman) has had four OC coordinators in the last 5 years and gone to the playoffs twice and won the Super Bowl. So I'm not sure how justifying it would be if I said 'more than one'? I might also point out that of the two years Trestman was the HC, Josh McNown looked like a Pro Bowl level QB in his system where Cutler played like...well Cutler.

 

Uhmmm... What was Lovie's forte again? Defense right? Perhaps one of the best defense minded coaches out there(?) It's safe to say that the majority of the Bears' winning seasons these last number of years were due to Lovie Smith's defenses. Jay Cutler played in about 2/3 of those seasons.

 

For the last question, as you tighten the filter of qualifying responses, I'd be remiss to try and assist you in what you seek. Because my answer would be simply; Cutler is an NFL franchise QB making more than NFL franchise QB money so not having everything line up perfectly shouldn't matter. But to you, I know it does.

 

Do me a favor and read the article I attached below. It pretty much outlines all the points you bring up..and then some.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1150532...ever-just-right

 

Fair enough. Without going deep into things, agree to disagree. But I will say a few quick-hitters:

-I don't want an OL drafted in the first round every year. I want the Bears to just keep addressing OL until they get it right for more than one year. And I also think a pro-bowl bookend at LT can't be picked up in FA until it's too late in that LT's career.

-Comparing Cutler to the other QBs is unfair, because none of the situations are the same. Similar to that argument is why that article you posted is bogus. Way too much selective comparison without context.

-Last but not least, I know you love you some Lovie. That's fine. I think he was an OK HC and a good DC. The thing is, however, he greatly benefited from inheriting one of the best group of players a defensive coach could ever get. He got maybe the most transformative MLB in the history of the NFL, an incredible thumper at FS who fit his system perfectly, a multi-time pro-bowl OLB, and a lockdown CB who could force fumbles like nobody else in NFL history. Then on top of that, he drafted the greatest return man in NFL history. I think without those players he would have been fired after just a few years, because, let's be honest, he didn't have a clue about offense, time management, or how to draft.